The Clemens Watch

[redoctober]

Gonzalez is no stiff, pull your head out of the sand. Defense was the priority at SS, I bet you were one of the Anything we have for Tejada people.

 

 

Good post. I like Gonzalez a lot.

[Teddyballgame10]

If Clemens would help us get into the World Series I'd give him anything he wants, and if the rumor is true that the Red Sox are his first choice I'd tell Mr. Epstein not to screw this one up. I want to win.

 

Could not have said it better. Its not like we are sighing a true yankee like sheffeild or sumtin

[Teddyballgame10]

Actually, I did hear about a year ago that Theo's plan was to cut the team payroll down to about 100 Mil in the near future. Do the Yankees plan on cutting any payroll?

 

Why would theo want to cut paroll if the red sox can affored it? On the other hand i dont want to sigh a washed up veteran to a gross contract but to get young players who will help of for years to come they need the payroll to be in the 110+ million range

[redoctober]

Why would theo want to cut paroll if the red sox can affored it? On the other hand i dont want to sigh a washed up veteran to a gross contract but to get young players who will help of for years to come they need the payroll to be in the 110+ million range

 

 

But the plan is for the team to be transformed into mostly a home grown team. There will of course be a few positions that they need to fill in via free agency, but thats the long term plan for this team. Obviously, prospects coming up are not going to have large contracts so thats why the payroll gets cut.

[framinghamflyer34]

There's no way Clemens is coming back, especially not to the Red Sox. First of all, he left New York to go to Texas (something I probably wouldn't have done, considering NY is a nice city w/ an evil team) to be with his family. He wouldn't move back up to Boston and leave his family again. Also, he will probably want more money than we will offer. If you ask me, there's no chance of Clemens wearing "22" in Boston at all.

[a700hitter]

Oh please, so the fact that ROger has decided to sit out the first few months makes it ok for you guys to go and get him. Now dont get me wrong, I think it's ok, why wouldnt it be. But I mean, I dont see how to you guys, thats ok, but signing a guy in the offseason isnt. You make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

 

Wah Wah Wah, I hate the Yankees. Wah Wah Wah.

 

Grow up

You are barking up the wrong tree. I am not a Sox fan that complains about the Yankees buying a Championship. My complaint for many years has been that Red Sox ownership, prior to the current ownership, has sold a line of BS that they can't compete financially with the Yankees. They tried to act like a small market team, when they were sitting on tremendous economic resources. In my earlier post, I was tweaking the Red Sox fan who doesn't want to get get Clemens because it would be acting like the Yankees. I made the tongue in cheek distinction that it was different, because we were re-claiming our own property etc. Try to pick up on subtleties once in a while. I don't whine if the Yanks pick up a FA. I have been on record several times on these boards that the pickup of Damon was a good one. The Yanks should sign whoever they want, but I think the Sox should go toe-to-toe with them and flex their financial strength. If we sign Clemens, it will be the Yankee fans who will be whining.

[a700hitter]

There's no way Clemens is coming back, especially not to the Red Sox. First of all, he left New York to go to Texas (something I probably wouldn't have done, considering NY is a nice city w/ an evil team) to be with his family. He wouldn't move back up to Boston and leave his family again. Also, he will probably want more money than we will offer. If you ask me, there's no chance of Clemens wearing "22" in Boston at all.

His kids are basically grown-- teeagers and college student. Do you really think they need Daddy around? He was so serious about playing near home last year that he was willing to accept only $!8 million-- the most of any pitcher in history. I have said it dozens of times on these boards. Roger will follow the money, and that is in Boston. They will pony up the dough, and there will be enormous marketing opportunities for a farewell tour at the Fens.

[seabeachfred]

Gonzales and Harris are very weak hitters, have no power and are nothing but eight outs a game between them. In the hitting orientated AL where the DH is used you cannot afford to have a weak hitter in the lineup in a few of your stalwarts are not hitting, and you sure as hell cannot afford to have two of them. That's my point.

[seabeachfred]

ksuschi, I will bet that in two months after Gonzales continues to make out in the late innings in key situations to cost us games, and after his batting average is well below 200 you will come to your senses and realize that all his defense does NOT make up for all the times he fails in the clutch to get a hit, or, for that matter, goes game after game without a hit. Simple my man---we cannot afford a 190 hitter in our lineup no matter how good his defense is because sooner or later he is going to take his lack of hitting out on the field with him and then we will really be down on shitpile boulevard. I've seen it happen many times with so called "glovemen" before.

[The Monster is my Mom]

so who do you suppose we should sign to play SS? All teams, even the Yanks, have a position or two with a player that doesn't hit well. It's just a fact that you can't get 9 players worthy of starting in the ML that have a decent glove and bat. Sometimes you have to take one of the other. In the end, the Sox will be in the top teams in runs scored. I don't think a couple black holes will hurt us too much.

[seabeachfred]

That is where we disagree Monsterman. Any time you have two players in the lineup that can barely hit 200 (three when Bard plays) you have a gigantic black hole, especially when Francona is so reluctant to hit for Gonzales in late innings in a close game. Of course, when your bench players include stiffs like Cora, Snow, Bard and the like it might be very hard to do that, too, so maybe I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. Your argument rests on the assumption that the rest of our lineup is going to hit well, and that is something we cannot count on. Tek looks like he is wearing down, and when we face a left our hottest hitter is on the bench. That augers very poorly down the road.

[ksushi]

ksuschi, I will bet that in two months after Gonzales continues to make out in the late innings in key situations to cost us games, and after his batting average is well below 200 you will come to your senses and realize that all his defense does NOT make up for all the times he fails in the clutch to get a hit, or, for that matter, goes game after game without a hit. Simple my man---we cannot afford a 190 hitter in our lineup no matter how good his defense is because sooner or later he is going to take his lack of hitting out on the field with him and then we will really be down on shitpile boulevard. I've seen it happen many times with so called "glovemen" before.

 

When in his career has he hit .190?

[The Monster is my Mom]

That is where we disagree Monsterman. Any time you have two players in the lineup that can barely hit 200 (three when Bard plays) you have a gigantic black hole, especially when Francona is so reluctant to hit for Gonzales in late innings in a close game. Of course, when your bench players include stiffs like Cora, Snow, Bard and the like it might be very hard to do that, too, so maybe I'm caught between a rock and a hard place. Your argument rests on the assumption that the rest of our lineup is going to hit well, and that is something we cannot count on. Tek looks like he is wearing down, and when we face a left our hottest hitter is on the bench. That augers very poorly down the road.

 

I am sure we would all love to have players at all 9 postions that hit like Ortiz and field like Ozzie Smith. That just isn't possible. So again, who do you propose we have instead of Gonzalez?

[HeadOfSoxNation]

so who do you suppose we should sign to play SS? All teams, even the Yanks, have a position or two with a player that doesn't hit well. It's just a fact that you can't get 9 players worthy of starting in the ML that have a decent glove and bat. Sometimes you have to take one of the other. In the end, the Sox will be in the top teams in runs scored. I don't think a couple black holes will hurt us too much.

 

Which Yankee positions are you talking about? Posada, Giambi, Cano, Jeter, ARod, Sheff, Matsui, and Damon....call me crazy, but I don't see the weak link.

[Teddyballgame10]

how old is tejada mabey a couple of minor leaguers for him. . . but defently not papelbon

[stocker323]

how old is tejada mabey a couple of minor leaguers for him. . . but defently not papelbon

 

Ugh. We don't need an allstar at every position. Gonzalez is fine at SS for a year.

[jsinger121]

how old is tejada mabey a couple of minor leaguers for him. . . but defently not papelbon

 

The Orioles will not trade Tejada to a division rival or for a couple of minor leaguers. It will cost the sox alot of prospects and don't expect Theo to do that.

[The Monster is my Mom]

Which Yankee positions are you talking about? Posada, Giambi, Cano, Jeter, ARod, Sheff, Matsui, and Damon....call me crazy, but I don't see the weak link.

 

Okay, well maybe not the Yankees, but they are the exception since they spend so much money. Although Bernie at DH is only hitting 0.240 and no homers.

[Cityofchampions33]

buster olney is sayin yankess/Astros are probably Clemen's top choices. Except he used explanations that really only benefitted the Yanks, and gave no real view of anything that would benefit Clemens. Such as how they need him to fill out their rotation, wouldn't have to trade any prospects, and wouldn't have to worry about if he could handle the Yankee spotlight.

[The Monster is my Mom]

I take what Buster says with a grain of salt since he is so slanted to the Yankers.

[seabeachfred]

He seems headed in that direction now Ksushi. OK, today he got two hits and I would love nothing better to see him get a few more in the Cleveland series and help out in the offense department. The problem is that he just looks terrible at the plate. I saw in both in Spring Training and in Boston and his hitting fundamentals are about as screwy as it can get, and if Papa Jack cannot straighten him out we are in for a tough time. Maybe he will get it together yet and this conversation will have become moot. I sure hope so anyway.

[seabeachfred]

Monsterman, right now there is no one available in a trade, but perhaps come July at the trade deadline something may open up. There is also the chance the Dustin Pedroia has a big year at Pawtucket and forces his way onto the team. That boy can hit and field and brings a lot of fire to a team. Of course, we could try and pry Bobby Crosby or Khalil Greene away from Oakland and San Diego, but I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting such a course of action.

[The Monster is my Mom]

Monsterman, right now there is no one available in a trade, but perhaps come July at the trade deadline something may open up. There is also the chance the Dustin Pedroia has a big year at Pawtucket and forces his way onto the team. That boy can hit and field and brings a lot of fire to a team. Of course, we could try and pry Bobby Crosby or Khalil Greene away from Oakland and San Diego, but I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting such a course of action.

 

So if there are no better options, then why not be happy with at least someone who can field? Gotta admit it is better than last year with Diarreaha, who could barely hit and couldn't field.

[TheRivernator]

with every game that the astros win, the chances of him returning to Houston dwindle. Clemens wants 3 things, money, winning and famly and he'd gladly give up either winning or family if the right money came up. I think he is less of a family man than he puts on. Now, if Houston continues to win, then they wont be so ready to hand over the big bucks because the need for Clemens wont be too high. That would turn the tables a little bit. Also, I seriously dont think the sox would be willing to outbid the yankees or even the rangers (provided they are in the race) because the sox really dont need another power starter as they already have 2 frontline guys and wake who is reliable over the course of the yr.

 

I still think that he would like to avoid the yankees and the sox altogether, but if enough money comes along, he'll jump at it. My prediction was that he'd return to Houston, but that may be wrong. I had no idea how hot the stros are and if he makes a decision by may 1 or june 1, the stros may not be willing to hand over the dough. We'll see, but the players in this sweepstakes are getting interesting and a return to the bronx has increased in likelihood (although is still at about 30-40% IMHO)

[mosox]

Even if NY outbids the Sox, Boston can offer him the number 3 spot in the rotation behind Schilling and Beckett and offer to retire number 21; two things that can feed his ego. The more this drags on, the less I think Houston will be willing to pay. The way I see it, the past Sox managment let Clemens go, so I'm not bitter about him leaving. The new ownership seems determined to spread good "karma", so if he can still hurl in workouts then they should go for it.

[Beckett95]

the more this drags on the better it is for the sox. Houston wont be in a playoff race this year, and by July they could be in 2nd to last place in the NL Central. I dont see why Clemens wouldnt want to come to the place he started, for a couple of months to get his numbered retired and contend for another world series.

[26 to 6]

Actually, I did hear about a year ago that Theo's plan was to cut the team payroll down to about 100 Mil in the near future. Do the Yankees plan on cutting any payroll?

I dont know where you've been but we did cut our payroll, and yes, that was a goal of ours in the offseason. Nice try though.

 

Actually even if we signed Clemens for 20 million our payroll would still be about 50 million less than the Yanks'.

And thats all that matters, I suppose. Right? Another example of Red Sox Nation's constant obsession with the Yankees.

[26 to 6]

There's no way Clemens is coming back, especially not to the Red Sox. First of all, he left New York to go to Texas (something I probably wouldn't have done, considering NY is a nice city w/ an evil team) to be with his family. He wouldn't move back up to Boston and leave his family again. Also, he will probably want more money than we will offer. If you ask me, there's no chance of Clemens wearing "22" in Boston at all.

You're right. He'd wear #21.

 

And yeah, he left for two years to be with his family, but consideing hes waiting until June/July to sign, I can definately see him in either NY or Boston.

 

You are barking up the wrong tree. I am not a Sox fan that complains about the Yankees buying a Championship. My complaint for many years has been that Red Sox ownership, prior to the current ownership, has sold a line of BS that they can't compete financially with the Yankees. They tried to act like a small market team, when they were sitting on tremendous economic resources. In my earlier post, I was tweaking the Red Sox fan who doesn't want to get get Clemens because it would be acting like the Yankees. I made the tongue in cheek distinction that it was different, because we were re-claiming our own property etc. Try to pick up on subtleties once in a while. I don't whine if the Yanks pick up a FA. I have been on record several times on these boards that the pickup of Damon was a good one. The Yanks should sign whoever they want, but I think the Sox should go toe-to-toe with them and flex their financial strength. If we sign Clemens, it will be the Yankee fans who will be whining.

Ahh, I see. I misunderstood your post.

 

But I dont think many Yankee fans will be whining if the Sox get Rog'. I know I will, because he's one of my idols. But a lot of Yankee fans dont hold him in as high a regard as I do. Dont get me wrong, there will definately be whining from the Yankee side, but not as much as when Johnny signed here, for example.

 

His kids are basically grown-- teeagers and college student. Do you really think they need Daddy around? He was so serious about playing near home last year that he was willing to accept only $!8 million-- the most of any pitcher in history.

He has young children. Elementary school age. I dont know how many, but he has some.

 

And yes, he got payed a boatload last year, but look at the year before. What was it, like $5 mil or something in that neighborhood?

[26 to 6]

Okay, well maybe not the Yankees, but they are the exception since they spend so much money. Although Bernie at DH is only hitting 0.240 and no homers.

Yeah, but its early and Bernie is a good hitter, we all know that.

[a700hitter]

But I dont think many Yankee fans will be whining if the Sox get Rog'. I know I will, because he's one of my idols. But a lot of Yankee fans dont hold him in as high a regard as I do. Dont get me wrong, there will definately be whining from the Yankee side, but not as much as when Johnny signed here, for example.

Yankee fans will be upset because he will make the Sox pitching very solid. I know that many Yankee fans only grudgingly accepted him.