Chad Tracy Gets 3-Year Deal

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You think? You still think Miller Time was the best option both times in a 1-0 game? Was it because he had pitched so well the last two weeks of the season?🤮

Were you able to read my second sentence or no? 

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

So with the season on the line, and your best pitcher on the mound, and something the Red Sox hadn’t done all year long it was time for Sonny Gray  who had only thrown 71 pitches to come out, and  bring in the always reliable Miller Time, because he was a better, and best option?

That's clearly the decision Breslow made prior to the series even starting. Not sure why Tracy is getting flack for it? 

Here's how Kevin Cash handled EVERY Blake Snell postseason start in TB:

 

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

You guys have been whining about geeks ruining baseball going back to the Dan Duquette days. At some point, you'll need to find a new hobby horse. 

Once again Papi, Manny Millar, Schilling, Betts, and many others were responsible for the titles. Are you really disputing that over analytics???🤔

 

 

 

 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Once again Papi, Manny Millar, Schilling, Betts, and many others were responsible for the titles. Are you really disputing that over analytics???🤔

Why do you think they went after Kevin Millar and prevented him from going to Japan? His good looks? 

[mvp 78]

They assembled, developed, drafted what became the WS teams because of their analytics. That you are arguing it is pretty silly in retrospect. 

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

That's clearly the decision Breslow made prior to the series even starting. Not sure why Tracy is getting flack for it? 

Here's how Kevin Cash handled EVERY Blake Snell postseason start in TB:

 

So Tracy is just a robot puppet I agree with. Why do it now with Gray with the season on the line with Miller for the second failed time?

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

They assembled, developed, drafted what became the WS teams because of their analytics. That you are arguing it is pretty silly in retrospect. 

It didn’t take any analytical geek to add Manny, Schilling, or a JD to the team. Papi was a whole different situation.

 

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

So Tracy is just a robot puppet I agree with. Why do it now with Gray with the season on the line with Miller for the second failed time?

They said they didn't want to go to Crochet unless it was a clean inning. Maybe they should have gone to Whitlock, the second best RP out there? He was garbage that game too. 

[mvp 78]

Just now, Old Red said:

It didn’t take any analytical geek to add Manny, Schilling, or a JD to the team. Papi was a whole different situation.

Schilling was an analytical geek FWIW. 

[Old Red]

14 minutes ago, JimEd said:

because Tracy is not a manager and has no feel for the game. he is just a placeholder for a bunch of AI (Anal Itics) nerds who tell him what moves to make and when.

If that wasn’t obvious before it certainly is now.

[NHNative]

My guess is the analytics are too heavily weighted. You can look at the numbers as a baseline, but the human element needs to be there.

[Old Red]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

Schilling was an analytical geek FWIW. 

He was most importantly a dam good pitcher especially in the postseason, and that’s what he was worth, and that’s why Theo spent Thanksgiving with him to get him.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, NHNative said:

My guess is the analytics are too heavily weighted. You can look at the numbers as a baseline, but the human element needs to be there.

I know many people believe analytics have made sports better, but I think it’s just the opposite, so I agree with what you said.

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They said they didn't want to go to Crochet unless it was a clean inning. Maybe they should have gone to Whitlock, the second best RP out there? He was garbage that game too. 

NOchet shouldn’t even have been on the roster to begin with. His situation was unprecedented. Whitlock ended up being garbage, but he was definitely a better option than Miller  the time, and both times.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Old Red said:

NOchet shouldn’t even have been on the roster to begin with. His situation was unprecedented. Whitlock ended up being garbage, but he was definitely a better option than Miller  the time, and both times.

I agree that Crochet shouldn't have been on the roster. The roster decisions were "unique" for sure. The injuries piled up at the end and the team didn't have an answer for how to put a full squad on the field that could actually compete. 

26 started off like crap and ended like it too. They would have been better off not going 32-5 and selling off at the deadline with the looming lockout. This offseason is going to be a weird one and not easy for Breslow to navigate with a lot of decisions for him to make. 

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

I agree that Crochet shouldn't have been on the roster. The roster decisions were "unique" for sure. The injuries piled up at the end and the team didn't have an answer for how to put a full squad on the field that could actually compete. 

26 started off like crap and ended like it too. They would have been better off not going 32-5 and selling off at the deadline with the looming lockout. This offseason is going to be a weird one and not easy for Breslow to navigate with a lot of decisions for him to make. 

I agree except for the selling off as fruitful, and as embarrassing as the post season turned out.

[drewski6]

16 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Not really. He will be 38 year old Goldschmidt's (.763) replacement.

I totally get the point about adding offense and worry about positions afterwards, but only for a major bat or two addition. The thing that bodes well about that strategy is how we have several flexible-position players:

Mead 2B/1B/DH

Anthony or Yoshida LF/DH

Sogard 3B/1B/DH

We can add a 2Bman (B Lowe?) and move Mead to DH.

We could add a SS and have Mead DH and Arias/Story at 2B.

We can add a LF'er (Suzuki/Arozena) and move Anthony to DH.

We can add a DH and have 2B/SS three deep and LF 2-3 deep.

We could even add a corner IF'er and move Durbin to 2B (I would not) or Contreras to DH.

The only positions we should not even consider is CF, RF and Catcher.

 

If you lose your leading scorer who is a power forward to free agency, you are first and foremost worried about who is going to pick up the scoring, not who is going to occupy the PF position.

Striving to be adequate and covered at all positions - you will continue to be above average but struggle against the teams that have the elite hitters.

It is not feasible that we will have 8 aces, lose a bunch to attrition, and still have enough to give 4 2/3  inning shutouts , get pulled and replaced by middle relief guys, who will also need to be excellent (against playoff lineups) because we strive to win games 2-1.  Its just not feasible. 

Starting pitching is 1/3 of half the game, relief pitching is 1/3 of half the game, and defense is 1/3 of half the game.  Offense is half the game.

Right now, I dont think we have those superstar bats.  Contreras maybe , but hes running his mouth, and hes so crazy.  And he will be 35.  So I dont think a position by position lens is the right approach.  Sure, if you want to continue to be like 11th in hitting, 1st in defense, adn top 5 in pitching.....But that team just got absolutely embarassed by our chief rival - who had the hitting to sustain 2 huge injuries to their batters and still lap you again and again in runs.

Building a team , trying to be adequate at each position, is just building a team that is going to win 60% , make the playoffs, but then look overmatched.  Like weve done last 2 years.

Yes, we can and should upgrade Durbin.  And hping the 5'11 Arias is going to save you or that Roman will figure it out  - dont be surprised if again you are reporting live from groundhog day.

Have we forgotten the goal is championships.  You dont beat Jordans Bulls by being defensively sound at all 5 positions.  When you need a star, you try to get a star....You dont worry about what position they play.

We need a Jordan Walker or a James Wood or a Corbin Carroll or an Elly De La Cruz.  When I say we put too much faith in Roman , Im talking to the people who told me Roman would be this guy.  Hes not and neither is a 35 yr old Contreras.  We need to go get real stars.  Because they tend to rack up the championships.  

And if you say, well because our holes are 2b and dh, we need to only look at those positions , you are getting in your own way of going and getting what we need.  Which is dangerous bats, up and down the lineup.

Because you need 8 good bats for the same reason you need 8 good starting pitchers, because it turns into 4-5 by the end.  You need Ben Rice and Cody Bellinger, and their rookie star SS to compliment Judge and Stanton so you can lose 2 and still compete.

From that lens, Durban is great as a next man up role.  A super sub.  But you dont marry that, and if you can package him with 3 more glove first guys to get like a real difference maker - you do it.  The results speak for themselves.  The stars are stacking the championships.  And its too much to ask to do it through the runs prevented side, even though, of course, MVP is right that you need to be good there too.

I think the bench can be Durban, Sogard, Gasper, Duran/White.  Hopefully Gasper can work on his arm in the offseason.  And I do think that its 80% chance that Durban will be starting by the playoffs.  Mead at 2b/3b, Anthony at DH (most likely).  So get 2 big bats one for LF and one for 2b/3b, whichever one Mead doesnt play. Im not saying Durbin is bad or cant start on a decent team.  Im saying we need to add a lot of firepower to keep up with how top heavy the league has become.  The Yankees are going to keep adding.  And clearly, they are pretty far in front of us.   

[notin]

49 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

That's clearly the decision Breslow made prior to the series even starting. Not sure why Tracy is getting flack for it? 

Here's how Kevin Cash handled EVERY Blake Snell postseason start in TB:

 

Sort of a league-wide thing.  Of the 18 SPs in the wild card series, only 4 (Schlitter, Sánchez, Fried, King) went more than 5 innings.   Only King went 7, but they weren’t going to pull him out with mid-no hitter…
 

 

 

[notin]

36 minutes ago, Old Red said:

NOchet shouldn’t even have been on the roster to begin with. His situation was unprecedented. Whitlock ended up being garbage, but he was definitely a better option than Miller  the time, and both times.

How was Crochet’s situation unprecedented?  He wasn’t even the only guy in that series that hadn’t suited up since April…

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Sort of a league-wide thing.  Of the 18 SPs in the wild card series, only 4 (Schlitter, Sánchez, Fried, King) went more than 5 innings.   Only King went 7, but they weren’t going to pull him out with mid-no hitter…

I agree. I was just trying to show that this isn't some brand new thing.

[notin]

5 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

If you lose your leading scorer who is a power forward to free agency, you are first and foremost worried about who is going to pick up the scoring, not who is going to occupy the PF position.

Striving to be adequate and covered at all positions - you will continue to be above average but struggle against the teams that have the elite hitters.

It is not feasible that we will have 8 aces, lose a bunch to attrition, and still have enough to give 4 2/3  inning shutouts , get pulled and replaced by middle relief guys, who will also need to be excellent (against playoff lineups) because we strive to win games 2-1.  Its just not feasible. 

Starting pitching is 1/3 of half the game, relief pitching is 1/3 of half the game, and defense is 1/3 of half the game.  Offense is half the game.

Right now, I dont think we have those superstar bats.  Contreras maybe , but hes running his mouth, and hes so crazy.  And he will be 35.  So I dont think a position by position lens is the right approach.  Sure, if you want to continue to be like 11th in hitting, 1st in defense, adn top 5 in pitching.....But that team just got absolutely embarassed by our chief rival - who had the hitting to sustain 2 huge injuries to their batters and still lap you again and again in runs.

Building a team , trying to be adequate at each position, is just building a team that is going to win 60% , make the playoffs, but then look overmatched.  Like weve done last 2 years.

Yes, we can and should upgrade Durbin.  And hping the 5'11 Arias is going to save you or that Roman will figure it out  - dont be surprised if again you are reporting live from groundhog day.

Have we forgotten the goal is championships.  You dont beat Jordans Bulls by being defensively sound at all 5 positions.  When you need a star, you try to get a star....You dont worry about what position they play.

We need a Jordan Walker or a James Wood or a Corbin Carroll or an Elly De La Cruz.  When I say we put too much faith in Roman , Im talking to the people who told me Roman would be this guy.  Hes not and neither is a 35 yr old Contreras.  We need to go get real stars.  Because they tend to rack up the championships.  

And if you say, well because our holes are 2b and dh, we need to only look at those positions , you are getting in your own way of going and getting what we need.  Which is dangerous bats, up and down the lineup.

Because you need 8 good bats for the same reason you need 8 good starting pitchers, because it turns into 4-5 by the end.  You need Ben Rice and Cody Bellinger, and their rookie star SS to compliment Judge and Stanton so you can lose 2 and still compete.

From that lens, Durban is great as a next man up role.  A super sub.  But you dont marry that, and if you can package him with 3 more glove first guys to get like a real difference maker - you do it.  The results speak for themselves.  The stars are stacking the championships.  And its too much to ask to do it through the runs prevented side, even though, of course, MVP is right that you need to be good there too.

I think the bench can be Durban, Sogard, Gasper, Duran/White.  Hopefully Gasper can work on his arm in the offseason.  And I do think that its 80% chance that Durban will be starting by the playoffs.  Mead at 2b/3b, Anthony at DH (most likely).  So get 2 big bats one for LF and one for 2b/3b, whichever one Mead doesnt play. Im not saying Durbin is bad or cant start on a decent team.  Im saying we need to add a lot of firepower to keep up with how top heavy the league has become.  The Yankees are going to keep adding.  And clearly, they are pretty far in front of us.   

While you clearly overvalue offense, I agree the Sox should focus there.

Not through free agency.  There simply isn’t any impactful hitters there.  I don’t consider Randy Arozarena to be an impactful hitter.

That leaves trades.  Tough when the Sox have but one really tempting prospect in the system…

[notin]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I agree. I was just trying to show that this isn't some brand new thing.

Heck no.  The most famous example was Snell against the Dodgers in the World Series where he retired something like 16 of the first 18 hitters and got pulled.  And that was 6 years ago…

[NHNative]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

Sort of a league-wide thing.  Of the 18 SPs in the wild card series, only 4 (Schlitter, Sánchez, Fried, King) went more than 5 innings.   Only King went 7, but they weren’t going to pull him out with mid-no hitter…
 

 

 

None of it means its a good idea to have pulled Tolle and Gray early.

"If you're gonna ride in the Kentucky Derby, you don't leave your prize stallion in the stable."

[drewski6]

16 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

We did more to "compete this year" than just about any Sox GM has done in my lifetime. Some moves did not pan out as expected, but the sheer amount of moves, significant and moderately significant was stunning.

We had a playoff team and saw more turnover than anyone would have expected. While the year end budget only increased by about $8M, the CB Tax budget went up $25M, and we actually got other teams to pay parts of salaries (Gray & Contreras), instead of vice-versa (Sale and several others.) Not even counting the Crochet extension, we added (LUX TAX)

$41M Gray (-$20M STL)

$26M Suarez

$21.3M Contreras (-$4M STL)

$6M IKF

Durbin, Bennett, Monasterio, Seigler, Oviedo, 

Then, we added Mead, Miller and AR.

Name a Sox season, where we added more than this.

It turned out to not be enough. Of course we could used Bregman or Alonso's bat. I wanted one of the other, too. Instead we chose to add Suarez and Durbin, then tried to patch holes with Mead, Miller and AR. Looking at just those in-season moves, one could argue that those midseason additions had higher possibilities than we thought Schwarber & Robles had in '21 and Eovaldi & Pearce had in '18.

The 2 PAs from Mead sucked. Had we gotten 2 PAs from Schwarber and many more from Mead, which might have been more likely, maybe we'd see things differently. 

I don't blame Brez for injuries and for not trying. If anything, he tried too hard, and now we have very little trade capital to upgrade for 2027. The Gray one and done add is an example of what trying to win now can do to a team.

 

 

Not enough scary bats.  Breslow did a lot of work turning this from a team that looked like a good bet to make the playoffs and lose in the first round, into a team that looked like a good bet to make the playoffs and lose in the first round.

If you want to go further, you dont look around the edges on where you can make minor upgrades.  Not when you just got creamed.  And noodlebatted 2 years in a row.  And have 0 playoff series wins last 5 years.

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

While you clearly overvalue offense, I agree the Sox should focus there.

Not through free agency.  There simply isn’t any impactful hitters there.  I don’t consider Randy Arozarena to be an impactful hitter.

That leaves trades.  Tough when the Sox have but one really tempting prospect in the system…

Then you package up Durbin.

[drewski6]

I dont think Im overrating offense.  I think that its half the game.  Joe Brady told us starting pitching, starting pitching, starting pitching....But its going to keep getting injured at a high clip, and the nerfed version of it that makes the playoffs - is just going to wind up getting pulld after 4 2/3.

To win games with run prevention, you need amazing sp, rp, defense.  
To win games with run creasion, you need hitting. 

My thesis is that run creation (offense) and run prevention (starting pitching, relief pitching, defense) are equally important.  I dont think thats wild.

[notin]

14 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Then you package up Durbin.

For?   Think Durbin is enough?

Im thinking bigger. BTV likes Abreu, Bennett and Arias for Fernando Tatis Jr, who is somehow still only 27.  That’s a really good offer that saves the Padres some $270mill over the next 8 years.

Would Boston go that high? Would San Diego accept?  These are questions I cannot answer…

[JimEd]

19 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

If you lose your leading scorer who is a power forward to free agency, you are first and foremost worried about who is going to pick up the scoring, not who is going to occupy the PF position.

Striving to be adequate and covered at all positions - you will continue to be above average but struggle against the teams that have the elite hitters.

It is not feasible that we will have 8 aces, lose a bunch to attrition, and still have enough to give 4 2/3  inning shutouts , get pulled and replaced by middle relief guys, who will also need to be excellent (against playoff lineups) because we strive to win games 2-1.  Its just not feasible. 

Starting pitching is 1/3 of half the game, relief pitching is 1/3 of half the game, and defense is 1/3 of half the game.  Offense is half the game.

Right now, I dont think we have those superstar bats.  Contreras maybe , but hes running his mouth, and hes so crazy.  And he will be 35.  So I dont think a position by position lens is the right approach.  Sure, if you want to continue to be like 11th in hitting, 1st in defense, adn top 5 in pitching.....But that team just got absolutely embarassed by our chief rival - who had the hitting to sustain 2 huge injuries to their batters and still lap you again and again in runs.

Building a team , trying to be adequate at each position, is just building a team that is going to win 60% , make the playoffs, but then look overmatched.  Like weve done last 2 years.

Yes, we can and should upgrade Durbin.  And hping the 5'11 Arias is going to save you or that Roman will figure it out  - dont be surprised if again you are reporting live from groundhog day.

Have we forgotten the goal is championships.  You dont beat Jordans Bulls by being defensively sound at all 5 positions.  When you need a star, you try to get a star....You dont worry about what position they play.

We need a Jordan Walker or a James Wood or a Corbin Carroll or an Elly De La Cruz.  When I say we put too much faith in Roman , Im talking to the people who told me Roman would be this guy.  Hes not and neither is a 35 yr old Contreras.  We need to go get real stars.  Because they tend to rack up the championships.  

And if you say, well because our holes are 2b and dh, we need to only look at those positions , you are getting in your own way of going and getting what we need.  Which is dangerous bats, up and down the lineup.

Because you need 8 good bats for the same reason you need 8 good starting pitchers, because it turns into 4-5 by the end.  You need Ben Rice and Cody Bellinger, and their rookie star SS to compliment Judge and Stanton so you can lose 2 and still compete.

From that lens, Durban is great as a next man up role.  A super sub.  But you dont marry that, and if you can package him with 3 more glove first guys to get like a real difference maker - you do it.  The results speak for themselves.  The stars are stacking the championships.  And its too much to ask to do it through the runs prevented side, even though, of course, MVP is right that you need to be good there too.

I think the bench can be Durban, Sogard, Gasper, Duran/White.  Hopefully Gasper can work on his arm in the offseason.  And I do think that its 80% chance that Durban will be starting by the playoffs.  Mead at 2b/3b, Anthony at DH (most likely).  So get 2 big bats one for LF and one for 2b/3b, whichever one Mead doesnt play. Im not saying Durbin is bad or cant start on a decent team.  Im saying we need to add a lot of firepower to keep up with how top heavy the league has become.  The Yankees are going to keep adding.  And clearly, they are pretty far in front of us.   

too bad Henry was too cheap to sign Alonso. i like WC's passion but i'd rather have the polar bear.

i don't see this team being any better next year. there aren't any impactful FAs to be had and Brezlow has spent all of his trade capital on a whole bunch of nothing. but i'm sure they'll sign another Sandoval, blow smoke up our ass and call it a day.

[drewski6]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

For?   Think Durbin is enough?

Im thinking bigger. BTV likes Albert, Bennett and Arias for Fernando Tatis Jr, who is somehow still only 27.  That’s a really good offer that saves the Padres some $270mill over the next 8 years.

Would Boston go that high? Would San Diego accept?  These are questions I cannot answer…

Generally for a super star you need a cheap regular and a superstar prospect.  Who is Albert?

[notin]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

Generally for a super star you need a cheap regular and a superstar prospect.  Who is Albert?

My racist auto correct apparently doesn’t like Abreu.

That offer checked both of those boxes and threw in a dirt cheap quality SP…