Red Sox (Tolle) vs Dodgers (Yamamoto): 8/1/26, 9:10pm

[JoeBrady]

9 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It's not a personal attack to call it absurd to say a 3.8 fWAR and 4.9 bWAR season sucks.

Saying it's trolling is personal, but you admitted you take delight in it, so was it really an attack?

Anyone that thinks a 4.9 bWAR is 'screwing up' doesn't know enough about baseball to warrant a discussion.  He's the 2nd best CF in BB over the past two seasons.

[moonslav59]

Just now, Old Red said:

Thanks for the kind words. I’ve never had a problem with the RAF Man’s hitting like others have had, because it wasn’t good enough, and some even suggested he should just be a utility player. Oh how the here, and now changes things.🤔

The here and now was here and now for Cedddanne in 2025, too. Fred said Ceddanne sucked in 2025, and yes, I couldn't and didn't let it go unquestioned.

Not sure why you choose to side with Fred on this, but it seems like anyone against me is your friend, at least for that moment.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, JoeBrady said:

Anyone that thinks a 4.9 bWAR is 'screwing up' doesn't know enough about baseball to warrant a discussion.  He's the 2nd best CF in BB over the past two seasons.

I shoulda left him and Red on ignore.

Maybe I felt winning would change things.

Nope.

[Old Red]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

The here and now was here and now for Cedddanne in 2025, too. Fred said Ceddanne sucked in 2025, and yes, I couldn't and didn't let it go unquestioned.

Not sure why you choose to side with Fred on this, but it seems like anyone against me is your friend, at least for that moment.

The only side I have with Fred is he has a right to voice his opinion, which is a pitch to pitch, and an AB to AB kind of fan.

[jad]

What an unreadable thread.

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I shoulda left him and Red on ignore.

Maybe I felt winning would change things.

Nope.

Put me on ignore for TMTC. Even when you do you comment through other posters. Kind of like hiding behind a curtain.

[FredLynn]

6 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

Anyone that thinks a 4.9 bWAR is 'screwing up' doesn't know enough about baseball to warrant a discussion.  He's the 2nd best CF in BB over the past two seasons.

What portion of his calculated value last year was based on his abysmal offensive performance and what part was based on defensive performance?

Can’t answer? Then I’ll answer for you: all defense. 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The only side I have with Fred is he has a right to voice his opinion, which is a pitch to pitch, and an AB to AB kind of fan.

Too funny. You seem against my lastwordism as a form of voicing my opinion.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I shoulda left him and Red on ignore.

Maybe I felt winning would change things.

Nope.

The funny thing is you think it’s a punishment. It’s NOT.🤮

[moonslav59]

Just now, Old Red said:

Put me on ignore for TMTC. Even when you do you comment through other posters. Kind of like hiding behind a curtain.

So what?

I'm just "voicing my opinion."

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Put me on ignore for TMTC. Even when you do you comment through other posters. Kind of like hiding behind a curtain.

Putting others on ignore basically allows others to contradict and disprove what you wrote without being able to defend it. It’s the internet equivalent of becoming a punching bag.

[moonslav59]

Just now, Old Red said:

The funny thing is you think it’s a punishment. It’s NOT.🤮

No, the funny thing is you think you know what other's motivations are, and you can't even understand the meanings of their posts, words and even punctuation marks.

Try to first understand the meanings of words before moving on to guessing the motivation behind the words.

It's not even close to "punishment." If anything, I feel like I'm doing you, me and the board a favor by trying to avoid the tit for tat with clowns.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

Putting others on ignore basically allows others to contradict and disprove what you wrote without being able to defend it. It’s the internet equivalent of becoming a punching bag.

That's a decent "last word."

[FredLynn]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

That's a decent "last word."

Don’t get me wrong: I was exclusively referring to our Rafaela discussion. I’m done with that. However I feel free to engage is discourse with you or with anyone else on other topics. 

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

No, the funny thing is you think you know what other's motivations are, and you can't even understand the meanings of their posts, words and even punctuation marks.

Try to first understand the meanings of words before moving on to guessing the motivation behind the words.

It's not even close to "punishment." If anything, I feel like I'm doing you, me and the board a favor by trying to avoid the tit for tat with clowns.

Clown? Once again thanks for the kind words. How are you doing anyone a favor when you just comment through other posters? You like clowns, and you like strawman. Whine all you want it’s just tears of a clown.

[Old Red]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So what?

I'm just "voicing my opinion."

Yes through other posters. What’s the purpose of ignore then?

[JoeBrady]

31 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Oh how the here, and now changes things.🤔

Except that Ceddanne was a good players two years ago, and a very good last year.

[Old Red]

Just now, JoeBrady said:

Except that Ceddanne was a good players two years ago, and a very good last year.

If you had followed along the past few years you you would have known that many on here didn’t think the RAF Man’s hitting was good enough, and some suggested he should just be a utility player, so many have changed their tune on him.

[JoeBrady]

9 minutes ago, Old Red said:

If you had followed along the past few years you you would have known that many on here didn’t think the RAF Man’s hitting was good enough, and some suggested he should just be a utility player, so many have changed their tune on him.

Some RS fans change their opinions all the time.  When a guy has a 3.0 bWAR in his first full season, you should be encouraged, not discouraged.

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

Some RS fans change their opinions all the time.  When a guy has a 3.0 bWAR in his first full season, you should be encouraged, not discouraged.

I agree, but I never had a problem with him in the first place even when he wasn’t hitting as well, and definitely never saw him as just a utility player.

[moonslav59]

14 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Yes through other posters. What’s the purpose of ignore then?

It cuts down on the back and forth significantly.

I don't get why you'd think I thought it's a punishment.

I'm going to assume we both see things very differently and make assumptions based on our own way of thinking. Maybe it's best for everyone to just stop the back and forth or limit it as much as possible. That's how I viewed it.

IMO, you misinterpret too many posts, not just mine and not just the motivations behind each post, but the actual positions and word meanings. I happen to think words and word choices matter and have specific meanings. I'm not pretending I'm smarter than anyone, and I often choose the wrong words or words that can easily be misinterpreted. I try to correct them or further explain what I meant, when I feel someone takes it in a way I did not intend. I'm fine with disagreement. I'm not fine with strawman building and little or no attempts at trying to agree on the actual meanings of one another's posts and motivations for stating opinions and positions before responding or attacking the points made. That's my biggest beef with you. 

Fred has admitted he trolls. That doesn't seem to bother you enough to point it out like you point out every fault you think I have. Look back at your responses to my posts. It's humanly impossible to disagree with nearly 100% of everything any one person says. I've actually agreed with several of Fred's positions, but you pick apart everything I say. I know I did pretty much the same to you, so I made an attempt to stop it by putting you on ignore. I realize I still made comments through posts you made to others that I couldn't help but read and have an opinion on, but my choice to do so did still limit the rancor and sheer volume of bickering. That's not patting myself on the back, but I do think it helped bring down the number of posts that nobody else cares to read.

Call it "hiding behind a curtain." Call is may attempt at "punishing you." I could care less. I tried to cut back and I think it did help a little bit. I know I am to blame for much of it and admit it. You throw my admission in my face over and over while pretending you have no blame in it, or at least you've never come close to admitting you share in at least half the blame. Again, I'm not claiming I'm a better man for admitting it, but I do think I've at least tried to cut down on it. Obviously, I've failed at it, and it seems you take great joy is seeing me admit it my failures.

I'll end by saying in all my experiences with family, several work places and my online bridge playing, I've never had any issues with co-workers, family members or bridge partners and opponents like I have with you. Take that for what it's is.

I'll put you back on innore and will try to limit my replies to your posts through others, but I'm human. I find it hard to resist questioning statements made I think are untrue. You are right about one thing: it is a curse not a blessing, but you are wrong that you think I see it as a strength or blessing.

 

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It cuts down on the back and forth significantly.

I don't get why you'd think I thought it's a punishment.

I'm going to assume we both see things very differently and make assumptions based on our own way of thinking. Maybe it's best for everyone to just stop the back and forth or limit it as much as possible. That's how I viewed it.

IMO, you misinterpret too many posts, not just mine and not just the motivations behind each post, but the actual positions and word meanings. I happen to think words and word choices matter and have specific meanings. I'm not pretending I'm smarter than anyone, and I often choose the wrong words or words that can easily be misinterpreted. I try to correct them or further explain what I meant, when I feel someone takes it in a way I did not intend. I'm fine with disagreement. I'm not fine with strawman building and little or no attempts at trying to agree on the actual meanings of one another's posts and motivations for stating opinions and positions before responding or attacking the points made. That's my biggest beef with you. 

Fred has admitted he trolls. That doesn't seem to bother you enough to point it out like you point out every fault you think I have. Look back at your responses to my posts. It's humanly impossible to disagree with nearly 100% of everything any one person says. I've actually agreed with several of Fred's positions, but you pick apart everything I say. I know I did pretty much the same to you, so I made an attempt to stop it by putting you on ignore. I realize I still made comments through posts you made to others that I couldn't help but read and have an opinion on, but my choice to do so did still limit the rancor and sheer volume of bickering. That's not patting myself on the back, but I do think it helped bring down the number of posts that nobody else cares to read.

Call it "hiding behind a curtain." Call is may attempt at "punishing you." I could care less. I tried to cut back and I think it did help a little bit. I know I am to blame for much of it and admit it. You throw my admission in my face over and over while pretending you have no blame in it, or at least you've never come close to admitting you share in at least half the blame. Again, I'm not claiming I'm a better man for admitting it, but I do think I've at least tried to cut down on it. Obviously, I've failed at it, and it seems you take great joy is seeing me admit it my failures.

I'll end by saying in all my experiences with family, several work places and my online bridge playing, I've never had any issues with co-workers, family members or bridge partners and opponents like I have with you. Take that for what it's is.

I'll put you back on innore and will try to limit my replies to your posts through others, but I'm human. I find it hard to resist questioning statements made I think are untrue. You are right about one thing: it is a curse not a blessing, but you are wrong that you think I see it as a strength or blessing.

 

Remember I offered to buy you a Sea Dog Biscuit years ago as a peace offering, but I accept your apology anyway.🤫

[moonslav59]

19 minutes ago, JoeBrady said:

Some RS fans change their opinions all the time.  When a guy has a 3.0 bWAR in his first full season, you should be encouraged, not discouraged.

It's one thing to rightfully question Ceddanne's offense, but to say he "sucked in 2025" is hard to ignore.

To not see he was clearly improving from year to year, despite still being below average and thinking it could continue seems like holding a grudge or not wanting to back off a first impression on a player.

No doubt, Ceddanne showed historically bad K:BB ratios and out of K-zone swing rates. It was absurdly bad. I don't think anyone doubted that clear weakness. It seemed odd of lucky that he hit the ball as much as he did through the minors and at the start of his MLB career. The first impression Fred had was based on clear evidence. 

Why he chose to ignore or downplay clear improvements in these areas and make severely disproportionate negative statements about Rafaela vs other struggling players is for him to answer to. I really don't think I crossed the line to say it was absurd to keep the hyper criticism on one player and to say his 2025 season "sucked." 

Saying Ceddanne "lost the game" for failing to move a runner over is but one example of the petty assaults. The fact that we ended up winning the game was not even the issue.

To then claim being "fair and balanced" and taking delight in "getting into people's heads" is a direction I found interesting for Red to support. Somehow I feel like he did only because Fred was battling me, but maybe I'm wrong. I'd hate to assign motives that are untrue.

[moonslav59]

Just now, Old Red said:

Remember I offered to buy you a Sea Dog Biscuit years ago as a peace offering, but I accept your apology anyway.🤫

This is soooo you.

Thanks for exposing yourself for others to see.

[FredLynn]

23 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It cuts down on the back and forth significantly.

I don't get why you'd think I thought it's a punishment.

I'm going to assume we both see things very differently and make assumptions based on our own way of thinking. Maybe it's best for everyone to just stop the back and forth or limit it as much as possible. That's how I viewed it.

IMO, you misinterpret too many posts, not just mine and not just the motivations behind each post, but the actual positions and word meanings. I happen to think words and word choices matter and have specific meanings. I'm not pretending I'm smarter than anyone, and I often choose the wrong words or words that can easily be misinterpreted. I try to correct them or further explain what I meant, when I feel someone takes it in a way I did not intend. I'm fine with disagreement. I'm not fine with strawman building and little or no attempts at trying to agree on the actual meanings of one another's posts and motivations for stating opinions and positions before responding or attacking the points made. That's my biggest beef with you. 

Fred has admitted he trolls. That doesn't seem to bother you enough to point it out like you point out every fault you think I have. Look back at your responses to my posts. It's humanly impossible to disagree with nearly 100% of everything any one person says. I've actually agreed with several of Fred's positions, but you pick apart everything I say. I know I did pretty much the same to you, so I made an attempt to stop it by putting you on ignore. I realize I still made comments through posts you made to others that I couldn't help but read and have an opinion on, but my choice to do so did still limit the rancor and sheer volume of bickering. That's not patting myself on the back, but I do think it helped bring down the number of posts that nobody else cares to read.

Call it "hiding behind a curtain." Call is may attempt at "punishing you." I could care less. I tried to cut back and I think it did help a little bit. I know I am to blame for much of it and admit it. You throw my admission in my face over and over while pretending you have no blame in it, or at least you've never come close to admitting you share in at least half the blame. Again, I'm not claiming I'm a better man for admitting it, but I do think I've at least tried to cut down on it. Obviously, I've failed at it, and it seems you take great joy is seeing me admit it my failures.

I'll end by saying in all my experiences with family, several work places and my online bridge playing, I've never had any issues with co-workers, family members or bridge partners and opponents like I have with you. Take that for what it's is.

I'll put you back on innore and will try to limit my replies to your posts through others, but I'm human. I find it hard to resist questioning statements made I think are untrue. You are right about one thing: it is a curse not a blessing, but you are wrong that you think I see it as a strength or blessing.

 

Perhaps you’d like to prove I admitted I “troll”.

Good luck with that since I admitted no such thing. Another figment of your imagination.

 

[Old Red]

50 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

This is soooo you.

Thanks for exposing yourself for others to see.

Exposing myself? Isn’t that illegal?😜

[notin]

2 hours ago, FredLynn said:

What portion of his calculated value last year was based on his abysmal offensive performance and what part was based on defensive performance?

Can’t answer? Then I’ll answer for you: all defense. 

Actually last year baseball-reference credited him with 2.6 oWAR and 2.8 dWAR…

[FredLynn]

17 minutes ago, notin said:

Actually last year baseball-reference credited him with 2.6 oWAR and 2.8 dWAR…

How did that happen? His OPS+ was below average. It makes me question how bWAR is calculated and its validity. 

[JoeBrady]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

but to say he "sucked in 2025" is hard to ignore.

If someone says that, then they are simply trolling.

[JoeBrady]

33 minutes ago, notin said:

Actually last year baseball-reference credited him with 2.6 oWAR and 2.8 dWAR…

Fred has no interest in numbers.