Mookie Betts Is Officially On The Wrong Side Of His Contract

[Bellhorn04]

7 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The $300M was at the end. What about before that when Mookie, and his mother said no? Didn’t Mookie go to arbitration at one time? The Red Sox haggled with Mookie all the way through. Was that all JH?

That was the $200 million offer.  Yes, I think that was JH.  

It appears that every offer the Sox made was a take it or leave it deal, with no further attempts at negotiation.  It was a very methodical approach.  We almost got lucky with that $200 million offer, but Mookie thought it was light and he bet on himself.

 

[Old Red]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

That was the $200 million offer.  Yes, I think that was JH.  

It appears that every offer the Sox made was a take it or leave it deal, with no further attempts at negotiation.  It was a very methodical approach.  We almost got lucky with that $200 million offer, but Mookie thought it was light and he bet on himself.

 

Yes the $200M, and only 8 years at the time would have been a good deal both in money, and length.

[moonslav59]

On 10/31/2025 at 8:39 AM, king koji said:

Yes, Anthony, Campbell, Rafaela, Crochet. They count. Perhaps soon we'll see external ones. He’s also had Bregman and Chapman externally which were good ones.

The big spending actually started in JAN '23 (before Brez) when Devers was extended to the largest and longest deal in Red Sox history.

There are signs the spending trends has changed, but signing a large and long free agent deal needs to be the next step.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

That was the $200 million offer.  Yes, I think that was JH.  

It appears that every offer the Sox made was a take it or leave it deal, with no further attempts at negotiation.  It was a very methodical approach.  We almost got lucky with that $200 million offer, but Mookie thought it was light and he bet on himself.

 

Had we just countered with $210M/8 or $220M/8, he might still be here. (Maybe Sale or Nate would not have been extended.)

Maybe he'd have even taken $220M/9 and allowed us a lower AAV.

[notin]

38 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Dombrowski was no more than a salaried employee.  Of course he would be involved in discussions, but when you're talking about one of the best players in history in his prime, that comes down to an ownership decision on how much they're willing to pay,  Ownership drew the line at around $300 million and wouldn't budge from that, and then gave the go-ahead to trade him.

I blame Dombrowski as much as I blame Bloom, which is to say zero and zero.

 

No more than a salaried employee?  He was the CBO, not the same as Frieda in accounting.

Is ownership really involved at this level? I’ve seen thousands of posts over the years about this executive or that one “needing ownership approval first.”  What is all that based on?   Can someone point me to the memorandum that sets the approval levels?

[Bellhorn04]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

No more than a salaried employee?  He was the CBO, not the same as Frieda in accounting.

Is ownership really involved at this level? I’ve seen thousands of posts over the years about this executive or that one “needing ownership approval first.”  What is all that based on?   Can someone point me to the memorandum that sets the approval levels?

There is no memorandum,  It's just common sense that the men who pay the bills have the final say on the mega deals.

For examples you can point to the Yanks.  On 2 occasions Steinbrenners stepped in at the last minute and opened the vault, once with A-Rod and once with Judge.

Also, after Betts was traded Henry wrote a very detailed letter to Red Sox fans explaining why they felt the trade was the correct move.  He did take responsibility for it,

 

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

No more than a salaried employee?  He was the CBO, not the same as Frieda in accounting.

Is ownership really involved at this level? I’ve seen thousands of posts over the years about this executive or that one “needing ownership approval first.”  What is all that based on?   Can someone point me to the memorandum that sets the approval levels?

Can you point to one that says the GM has unfettered sending limits?

My guess is they all sit down and workout a framework for a budget with the idea that if a GM wants to go outside the framework, he'll need approval from above.

How that is done is a mystery. How many people have to say "Yes" or "No" may vary from tean to team. It does seem strange that this has never been revealed, that I know of. There have been times that higher ups get involved in negotiations and even visit pending free agents, but I'm not sure we've seen an owner do it, other than the NFL's Jerry Jones.

[moonslav59]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

There is no memorandum,  It's just common sense that the men who pay the bills have the final say on the mega deals.

For examples you can point to the Yanks.  On 2 occasions Steinbrenners stepped in at the last minute and opened the vault, once with A-Rod and once with Judge.

Also, after Betts was traded Henry wrote a very detailed letter to Red Sox fans explaining why they felt the trade was the correct move.  He did take responsibility for it,

 

Good example. It was very obvious and logical that DD wanted to and would have worked to extend or re-sign Betts but was not allowed to do so. He was almost forced to trade him in 2019, which is further evidence he did not have full control or the budget or the roster.

[moonslav59]

It wasn't really a spectacular play that ended the World Series, but it was a nice one by Betts.

Kinda odd the the night before, Kike made the game ending DP.

The Sox ghosts came out around Halloween.

[notin]

7 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It wasn't really a spectacular play that ended the World Series, but it was a nice one by Betts.

Kinda odd the the night before, Kike made the game ending DP.

The Sox ghosts came out around Halloween.

Defensively Kike’s play was much bigger.  Betts’ was fairly routine, especially with Alejandro Kirk “running”.

Betts has never really excelled in postseasons for whatever reason.  He gets you there and then someone else plays hero…

[Old Red]

25 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The big spending actually started in JAN '23 (before Brez) when Devers was extended to the largest and longest deal in Red Sox history.

There are signs the spending trends has changed, but signing a large and long free agent deal needs to be the next step.

I’m in the I’ll believe it when I see it mode. Raffy was a special case being homegrown, and the last man standing after Bogey, and Mookie left, and even then they probably had to pry JH hands off his checkbook.

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

Defensively Kike’s play was much bigger.  Betts’ was fairly routine, especially with Alejandro Kirk “running”.

Betts has never really excelled in postseasons for whatever reason.  He gets you there and then someone else plays hero…

2024 was the exception - 16 games, .951 OPS, 4 HR and 16 RBI.

[Old Red]

17 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

There is no memorandum,  It's just common sense that the men who pay the bills have the final say on the mega deals.

For examples you can point to the Yanks.  On 2 occasions Steinbrenners stepped in at the last minute and opened the vault, once with A-Rod and once with Judge.

Also, after Betts was traded Henry wrote a very detailed letter to Red Sox fans explaining why they felt the trade was the correct move.  He did take responsibility for it,

 

JH even said goodbye to Lester out in the parking lot after he lowballed him.

[notin]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I’m in the I’ll believe it when I see it mode. Raffy was a special case being homegrown, and the last man standing after Bogey, and Mookie left, and even then they probably had to pry JH hands off his checkbook.

There have been signs.  Bregman getting a $40mill AAV for up to 3 years should headline the list.  Extending Crochet would be the second.

I doubt they go as crazy as they used to, however…

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I’m in the I’ll believe it when I see it mode. Raffy was a special case being homegrown, and the last man standing after Bogey, and Mookie left, and even then they probably had to pry JH hands off his checkbook.

I'm taking the extensions for Crochet and Anthony as good signs.  OTOH I'm not really counting on anything.  What we see is what we'll get.

[notin]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

2024 was the exception - 16 games, .951 OPS, 4 HR and 16 RBI.

Even his 2018 was unspectacular…

[notin]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm taking the extensions for Crochet and Anthony as good signs.  OTOH I'm not really counting on anything.  What we see is what we'll get.

I will call one “long and large” which will probably be Bregman for 5 years.  And they make trades that probably include pricey players (not named Greene and Harper)…

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I’m in the I’ll believe it when I see it mode. Raffy was a special case being homegrown, and the last man standing after Bogey, and Mookie left, and even then they probably had to pry JH hands off his checkbook.

I get the "last man standing" point, and the enormous pressure JH was under to not let that "last man" bolt, but the fact is he did it- hand pried or otherwise. $300M/10 was not something to just waive off as an anomaly.

Trading him, not long afterwards, seemed shocking, at the time, but in the grand scheme (or should I say sham) of things, he undid what he was "pried" into doing. I do think it was more him than Brez that made it happen, but it could have been Brez's suggestion.

We've certainly made enormous strides with extending our own players- homegrown (Anthony, Bello, Rafaela & Campbell) and not (Crochet.) That's a great sign that things are changing on the financial side of the organization. It took a long time to wake up, but I think that might have had something to do with their previous record actually being pretty good on knowing when to let some key stars go. They had missed on a few (DLowe, Beltre and the biggies, Lester & Betts) but others were more nuanced (Damon, Manny, Bogey and others) or downright great moves (Ellsbury, Pedro, JD, CC & Agonand others)

To me, this winter should be the strategic time to buck the trend and go large and long on a big bat. While the ones available have some flaws, the time is now. Schwarber (age and DH only) and Alonso (awful 1B D and a logjam at DH) are the tow big prizes. Settling on two from the next tier might be enough, but that would be two large and long deals after going almost a decade with none. Suarez might not need the "long" part, so he could be paired with Bregman, Polanco or Bichette, or we could trade for K Marte or some other bopper.

[Behindenemylines]

3 hours ago, notin said:

Defensively Kike’s play was much bigger.  Betts’ was fairly routine, especially with Alejandro Kirk “running”.

Betts has never really excelled in postseasons for whatever reason.  He gets you there and then someone else plays hero…

As bad as Mookie was in the WS, it was his hit that won game 6. Dodgers don't win WS if they don't win game 6,

[mvp 78]

20 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm taking the extensions for Crochet and Anthony as good signs.  OTOH I'm not really counting on anything.  What we see is what we'll get.

A good sign, but once this round is signed, there isn't a great pipeline behind them that haven't yet appeared in BOS IMO. 

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

On 11/2/2025 at 8:58 AM, Bellhorn04 said:

Betts had a lackluster season with the stick, but at the same time he made himself into one of the best defensive shortstops in the game, which is pretty incredible at his age, and he ended up with a 4.8 bWAR/3.4 fWAR.

$500 million for a good defensive shortstop who comes up small in October on a regular basis who will continue to age?  He has been in the playoffs 10 times and only 4 times did he have an OPS over .740. 

 

I'm still bitter about the trade, not pretending I'm not. I'm just saying it's easier to take when I see him fail in the playoffs, if he pulled an Ortiz the trade would be more painful.  

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

$500 million for a good defensive shortstop who comes up small in October on a regular basis who will continue to age?  He has been in the playoffs 10 times and only 4 times did he have an OPS over .740. 

 

I'm still bitter about the trade, not pretending I'm not. I'm just saying it's easier to take when I see him fail in the playoffs, if he pulled an Ortiz the trade would be more painful.  

500M? How much do you think his contract was? If he was a FA, he'd certainly get 6/180 or whatever is currently left on his deal. 

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

On 11/6/2025 at 9:35 AM, mvp 78 said:

500M? How much do you think his contract was? If he was a FA, he'd certainly get 6/180 or whatever is currently left on his deal. 

I've been talking about past performance from the start of that contract as well as future decline. In his 6 playoff seasons in LA, with all the protection that lineup provides, he only hit well in 3 of those playoffs.  And that includes '21 when his OPS was .782.  I'm pretty sure the Dodgers were looking for more. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

35 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

I've been talking about past performance from the start of that contract as well as future decline. In his 6 playoff seasons in LA, with all the protection that lineup provides, he only hit well in 3 of those playoffs.  And that includes '21 when his OPS was .782.  I'm pretty sure the Dodgers were looking for more. 

It's bad enough to have 6-year 162-game averages of 7.2 WAR, 122 runs scored, 33 HRs, 97 RBI, .867 OPS, and win four Silver Sluggers, two OF Gold Gloves (plus a nomination for another at SS) and have three TOP 5 finishes for NL MVP... 

... but then to get honored with the 2025 Roberto Clemente Award for being the guy who "best represents the game of Baseball through extraordinary character, community involvement, philanthropy and positive contributions, both on and off the field."

LA must want a refund.

 

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

On 11/7/2025 at 12:18 PM, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

It's bad enough to have 6-year 162-game averages of 7.2 WAR, 122 runs scored, 33 HRs, 97 RBI, .867 OPS, and win four Silver Sluggers, two OF Gold Gloves (plus a nomination for another at SS) and have three TOP 5 finishes for NL MVP... 

... but then to get honored with the 2025 Roberto Clemente Award for being the guy who "best represents the game of Baseball through extraordinary character, community involvement, philanthropy and positive contributions, both on and off the field."

LA must want a refund.

 

Sorry for the late reply, I'm not around much during the offseason. 

You are using regular season stats. Every post I have made has been in reference to his PLAYOFF STATS, I was very clear about that.  They didn't pay him that kind of money to have great regular seasons. They were in the World Series the previous 2 seasons, they would have been in the mix without the trade for Mookie. 

No they got Mookie to get over the hump and actually win the Series. They got him to produce when it mattered in October and overall he simply has not done that.  

[Behindenemylines]

On 11/2/2025 at 11:35 AM, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm taking the extensions for Crochet and Anthony as good signs.  OTOH I'm not really counting on anything.  What we see is what we'll get.

Dodgers had a ton of money that wasn't even on the World Series roster. If the Sox are going to compete with them they need to spend money!