Red Sox 2025 Trade Deadline Thread

[Hitch]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

And then there were the Billy Beane “All 3 team deals go through Oakland” days…

The gold ole days!

[Hitch]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

Sometimes having good young players rally is a hindrance at the trade deadline.

Back in 1996, the Sox made an attempt to get Denny Neagle from Pitt.  Boston has some good prospects back then, but Pitt wanted Nomar. And only Nomar.

No idea who else Boston dangled, and they had names back then. Brian Rose. Carl Pavano. Jeff Suppan. Donnie Sadler.  Not sure who they offered, but I heard it didn’t matter. Pitt wanted Nomar.  No deal, and Neagle went to Atlanta for a package built around RHSP Jason Schmidt (who did have a decent career).

Were teams focused on Anthony?  “If you like Password so much, you keep him and trade us Roman,” which ironically is an anagram for Nomar…

I don't know about that. I know execs will always shoot for the highest fruit, especially in the initial salvos of a negotiation, but Roman is considered by almost all as a shoe-in superstar. I think everyone knows they aren't getting one of those unless it's a Skeenes coming back. 

I really do feel it was almost certain we flinched at Duran/Rafaela/Abreu. Knowing that's the first thing they want, but that there'd be more to be added.

[Bellhorn04]

34 minutes ago, notin said:

Didn’t your excitement about this team escalate the day Bregman was signed?  Or David Price?

Mine did.  But it was more about adding 4 wins or so, for me personally.  I don't like having Bregman because we paid him a lot of money.  I like him because he's a really freaking good baseball player.

 

[drewski6]

13 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He was having his first taste of AA pitching. There's a learning curve there for many hitters. He had zero problems in "A ball." Per SoxProspects, he profiled as a corner OFer. Not sure how that's a guy w/o a position. Sox moved him around, because that's what they seem to do with a lot of players. The also have a huge lack of 1b in the system and need to throw everyone there to see if someone sticks. 

Is this supposed to make me feel better?  Cuz I give May 3 starts until hes either pulled for tolle (my hope), hurt, or innings capped

[Bellhorn04]

38 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I thought it was established that he was canned for being gun-shy, but i could be wrong.

It's a popular theory, and that's the extent of it.

[drewski6]

15 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I know you love war-gaming these trades out, but you rarely get trades like this. They just do not happen that often. Trading is hard enough, simplifying things is what most execs (not named Preller) try to do.

Yeah, buyer-buyer trades are rare and when they do happen, its usually bad contract for bad contract swap with idea being : "maybe change of scenery will rejuvenate a has-been"

A buyer-buyer trade of plus assets is a subset of a subset

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

we're onto summerslam. 

The message this sends to the players is clear: "we do not believe in you enough to provide you with the additional help you need to make a run at a ring". It has to be demoralizing so I expect that many will give up to an extent and the tanking I wanted before the deadline will take place naturally now. Henry has to sell the team....its the only way.

[drewski6]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

Sometimes having good young players rally is a hindrance at the trade deadline.

Back in 1996, the Sox made an attempt to get Denny Neagle from Pitt.  Boston has some good prospects back then, but Pitt wanted Nomar. And only Nomar.

No idea who else Boston dangled, and they had names back then. Brian Rose. Carl Pavano. Jeff Suppan. Donnie Sadler.  Not sure who they offered, but I heard it didn’t matter. Pitt wanted Nomar.  No deal, and Neagle went to Atlanta for a package built around RHSP Jason Schmidt (who did have a decent career).

Were teams focused on Anthony?  “If you like Password so much, you keep him and trade us Roman,” which ironically is an anagram for Nomar…

Thats on bres though.  Its not like trades never happen when someone makes a stab for x and gets switched.  You think we approached the dodgers with verdugo as our top target?

Bres stinks at talking, people who stink at talking usually stink at selling. Selling other GMs is a big part of the job.  I think people just dont want to talk to him.  Hes a stiff

[drewski6]

7 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I don't know about that. I know execs will always shoot for the highest fruit, especially in the initial salvos of a negotiation, but Roman is considered by almost all as a shoe-in superstar. I think everyone knows they aren't getting one of those unless it's a Skeenes coming back. 

I really do feel it was almost certain we flinched at Duran/Rafaela/Abreu. Knowing that's the first thing they want, but that there'd be more to be added.

how did the yankees make 7 trades, but we can only trade from a pool of Anthony or duran (all-star), abreu (gg), cedanne (all-star snub) ? Are our second tier prospects (anyone not named Anthony, Tolle) that bad?

Other teams found ways to add big, but it seems like our only options were zero-sum buyer-buyer trades or trading anthony? Why do these limitations apply to only us? My best guess is bloom cant sell.  Stiffs usually cant

[drewski6]

or its ownership and he was trying to dump money lol.  "Nobody would accept our packages!!"

(what hes not telling you is every one contained masa lol)

[drewski6]

5 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

The message this sends to the players is clear: "we do not believe in you enough to provide you with the additional help you need to make a run at a ring". It has to be demoralizing so I expect that many will give up to an extent and the tanking I wanted before the deadline will take place naturally now. Henry has to sell the team....its the only way.

someone who argued with you quite a bit these last 50 hours, i cant argue.  We always tank immediately after it being too late to intelligently tank.

[Hitch]

Just now, drewski6 said:

how did the yankees make 7 trades, but we can only trade from a pool of Anthony or duran (all-star), abreu (gg), cedanne (all-star snub) ? Are our second tier prospects (anyone not named Anthony, Tolle) that bad?

Other teams found ways to add big, but it seems like our only options were zero-sum buyer-buyer trades or trading anthony? Why do these limitations apply to only us? My best guess is bloom cant sell.  Stiffs usually cant

To be fair, this conversation was in response to Ryan only. As in that was what they were asking for him, so doesn't apply to all. 

But yes, it was annoying seeing countless teams hoovering up interesting players for bearable costs while we twiddled our thumbs.

An interesting listen on the Sox Prospects pod the other day was how they value a lot of our prospects quite a bit lower (more realistic) than the fan base (and possibly org). In that they would be furious if they were Minnesota and were offered Arias and The Password for Ryan.

[Hitch]

8 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

The message this sends to the players is clear: "we do not believe in you enough to provide you with the additional help you need to make a run at a ring". It has to be demoralizing so I expect that many will give up to an extent and the tanking I wanted before the deadline will take place naturally now. Henry has to sell the team....its the only way.

An interesting take (and not one I'm willing to say I agree with at this point) that I heard today was that there were several players such as Abreu and Duran, and even Gio and Chapman, slated with possibly being moved this past month, that the atmosphere will be more up than we're expecting, as they all wanted to stay.

Like I say, I'm not willing to jump on with that idea, but it will be interesting to see how things play out the next few weeks.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

To be fair, this conversation was in response to Ryan only. As in that was what they were asking for him, so doesn't apply to all. 

But yes, it was annoying seeing countless teams hoovering up interesting players for bearable costs while we twiddled our thumbs.

An interesting listen on the Sox Prospects pod the other day was how they value a lot of our prospects quite a bit lower (more realistic) than the fan base (and possibly org). In that they would be furious if they were Minnesota and were offered Arias and The Password for Ryan.

context appreciated, and agreed if talking ryan exclusively thats different from talking about deadline buys more generally.

Agree with second paragraph

sound like a big part of this was that we were too focused on ryan.  one likely situation is that they had planned on an OF for Ryan swap but when cedanne got moved to infield and toro going cold they thought they no longer had the bat to spare and were sent scrambling for a plan b.  and breslow is too stiff to effectively scramble.  hes like bloom.  Everything needs to be soooo methodical and soooo planned , and hes just afraid to make a move without scrubbing it to death.  This feels like the very definition of analysis paralysis.

I would have been happy with mitch keller and bednar.  Like ross in that episode of friends: "PIVOT!!!"

[drewski6]

so if we swung and missed on real acquisitions, we prob have 40 man roster spots available , right? Notin, if you wanna talk about having good prospects being a deterrent , it may apply here.  Maybe they want 40 man spots to give tolle a shot.  Im a big believer that the more times a pitcher and a batter match, the more that favors the batter. 

Ive seen bats struggle against a mediocre arm because its the first time they are seeing that mediocre arm.  Im hopeful we get a juicy call up.  Tolle is 22, call him up.

[drewski6]

ANd call up pw too (DH)

[FredLynn]

8 minutes ago, Hitch said:

An interesting take (and not one I'm willing to say I agree with at this point) that I heard today was that there were several players such as Abreu and Duran, and even Gio and Chapman, slated with possibly being moved this past month, that the atmosphere will be more up than we're expecting, as they all wanted to stay.

Like I say, I'm not willing to jump on with that idea, but it will be interesting to see how things play out the next few weeks.

The players knew what the team needed: a good RH bat to play 1B, a good SP to work as our #2, and a backup catcher to replace Wong, who has been awful. I remember reading comments in years past from the players saying the same thing: "we knew what we needed and management didn't come through". Its a slap in the face and it tells the players that management doesn't have the confidence that its worth supporting this team with the players it needs to make a deep Oct run. I think you'll see a pronounced summer swoon now.

[Hitch]

7 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

context appreciated, and agreed if talking ryan exclusively thats different from talking about deadline buys more generally.

Agree with second paragraph

sound like a big part of this was that we were too focused on ryan.  one likely situation is that they had planned on an OF for Ryan swap but when cedanne got moved to infield and toro going cold they thought they no longer had the bat to spare and were sent scrambling for a plan b.  and breslow is too stiff to effectively scramble.  hes like bloom.  Everything needs to be soooo methodical and soooo planned , and hes just afraid to make a move without scrubbing it to death.  This feels like the very definition of analysis paralysis.

I would have been happy with mitch keller and bednar.  Like ross in that episode of friends: "PIVOT!!!"

It seemed like we really did have interest in Keller and were trying to make something happen. That definitely was within our reach.

Bres is a bit of a conundrum. Made a huge trade for Crochet and sent away two very highly rated prospects. Fell out with Devers and made another huge trade. Fired a scout for being insubordinate. Signed Bregman for big money when it became clear he was about to go elsewhere. So he has the ability to act decisively.

But then you see these deals and what it looks like he couldn't bring himself to do and you scratch your head.

It makes me think he doesn't really believe it's this year, but next, in which case he should have had the courage to sell a bit.

[Hitch]

5 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

The players knew what the team needed: a good RH bat to play 1B, a good SP to work as our #2, and a backup catcher to replace Wong, who has been awful. I remember reading comments in years past from the players saying the same thing: "we knew what we needed and management didn't come through". Its a slap in the face and it tells the players that management doesn't have the confidence that its worth supporting this team with the players it needs to make a deep Oct run. I think you'll see a pronounced summer swoon now.

That would be my initial leaning, too, but thy surprised me after the Devers trade, so we'll see. 

For Bres' sake I hope they still get the play offs. For ours, too. Not least because the young guys need the experience, but also because we need to look like a winner to FAs again and because I really don't want to see us sack another GM.

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

It seemed like we really did have interest in Keller and were trying to make something happen. That definitely was within our reach.

Bres is a bit of a conundrum. Made a huge trade for Crochet and sent away two very highly rated prospects. Fell out with Devers and made another huge trade. Fired a scout for being insubordinate. Signed Bregman for big money when it became clear he was about to go elsewhere. So he has the ability to act decisively.

But then you see these deals and what it looks like he couldn't bring himself to do and you scratch your head.

It makes me think he doesn't really believe it's this year, but next, in which case he should have had the courage to sell a bit.

This makes two years of sitting on the fence. That is absolutely NOT the way to manage a team. You make your decision to go all in and give your team the players it needs to make the playoffs (after which anything can happen) OR you sell. Sitting on the fence is more of the same, and its BS. 

[FredLynn]

1 minute ago, Hitch said:

That would be my initial leaning, too, but thy surprised me after the Devers trade, so we'll see. 

For Bres' sake I hope they still get the play offs. For ours, too. Not least because the young guys need the experience, but also because we need to look like a winner to FAs again and because I really don't want to see is sack another GM.

Well I do. Breslow screwed up. Again.

[Hitch]

1 minute ago, FredLynn said:

This makes two years of sitting on the fence. That is absolutely NOT the way to manage a team. You make your decision to go all in and give your team the players it needs to make the playoffs (after which anything can happen) OR you sell. Sitting on the fence is more of the same, and its BS. 

As I mentioned in another thread, while this may be your and my view on it, if they'd sold in the position they are in, Fenway would be on fire now. We can't ignore the context of what's come before, no matter how convenient it would be.

[mvp 78]

38 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Is this supposed to make me feel better?  Cuz I give May 3 starts until hes either pulled for tolle (my hope), hurt, or innings capped

I hate the trade, but hope May pitches lights out down the stretch. 

[mvp 78]

27 minutes ago, Hitch said:

To be fair, this conversation was in response to Ryan only. As in that was what they were asking for him, so doesn't apply to all. 

But yes, it was annoying seeing countless teams hoovering up interesting players for bearable costs while we twiddled our thumbs.

An interesting listen on the Sox Prospects pod the other day was how they value a lot of our prospects quite a bit lower (more realistic) than the fan base (and possibly org). In that they would be furious if they were Minnesota and were offered Arias and The Password for Ryan.

Arias and Garcia for Ryan definitely isn't enough to get it done. I'd include them and much more. 

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

so if we swung and missed on real acquisitions, we prob have 40 man roster spots available , right? Notin, if you wanna talk about having good prospects being a deterrent , it may apply here.  Maybe they want 40 man spots to give tolle a shot.  Im a big believer that the more times a pitcher and a batter match, the more that favors the batter. 

Ive seen bats struggle against a mediocre arm because its the first time they are seeing that mediocre arm.  Im hopeful we get a juicy call up.  Tolle is 22, call him up.

Tolle has an outside chance of getting a bullpen shot this year, but it's unlikely. 

[Hitch]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Arias and Garcia for Ryan definitely isn't enough to get it done. I'd include them and much more. 

Agreed, but you do see a lot of trade offers on here (and Twitter, etc) where you'd swear the Password was the No1 prosect in baseball. 

[FredLynn]

8 minutes ago, Hitch said:

As I mentioned in another thread, while this may be your and my view on it, if they'd sold in the position they are in, Fenway would be on fire now. We can't ignore the context of what's come before, no matter how convenient it would be.

I think you underestimate Red Sox fans. They know that we lack the talent this year to make a good Oct run unless we get a significant infusion of players that fill our needs. I would have applauded being a seller and tanking for draft picks-that will likely happen now anyway. There will always be bonnetheads whose baseless  optimism and mindless support of the losers currently infesting the roster clouding reality, but most Sox fans know the truth about this year's team: not good enough.

[mvp 78]

Just now, Hitch said:

Agreed, but you do see a lot of trade offers on here (and Twitter, etc) where you'd swear the Password was the No1 prosect in baseball. 

Prospects are definitely overvalued by many people. The only MiLB guy I suggested not trading for Ryan was Tolle as he's a top 50 prospect and is going to charge up the rankings over the next 12 months. He's just a prototypical starter and I wouldn't lump him into a Ryan trade if the Sox are already adding an MLB OFer.

[Hitch]

Just now, FredLynn said:

I think you underestimate Red Sox fans. They know that we lack the talent this year to make a good Oct run unless we get a significant infusion of players that fill our needs. I would have applauded being a seller and tanking for draft picks-that will likely happen now anyway. There will always be bonnetheads whose baseless  optimism and mindless support of the losers currently infesting the roster clouding reality, but most Sox fans know the truth about this year's team: not good enough.

I think myself and you were very much in the minority. And I understand, that too. This team/org needs October baseball.

[Hitch]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

Prospects are definitely overvalued by many people. The only MiLB guy I suggested not trading for Ryan was Tolle as he's a top 50 prospect and is going to charge up the rankings over the next 12 months. He's just a prototypical starter and I wouldn't lump him into a Ryan trade if the Sox are already adding an MLB OFer.

Interestingly I just saw this - 

 

McCaffrey and Rosenthal's report also revealed something critical: the specific reason the Red Sox's offers to Minnesota weren't enough to pry Ryan loose, as well as one name they were confirmed to be willing to give up.

"As the minutes ticked closer to Thursday’s 6 p.m. ET trade deadline, the Boston Red Sox reached out to the Minnesota Twins about coveted starter Joe Ryan. But according to league sources briefed on discussions from the Twins’ side, talks fell apart when the Red Sox were unwilling to offer any of their big league outfielders, or an enticing enough package of their top-tier prospects," wrote McCaffrey.

"Jhostynxon Garcia, the Red Sox’s top outfield prospect, was in the mix to be in the deal. But despite Boston’s highly-regarded farm system, sources said that the rest of the haul offered was not substantial enough to land Ryan, owner of a 2.82 ERA and whose value is enhanced by being under team control through 2027."

So reading between the lines, it seems as though a package that included either of two outfielders, Jarren Duran and Wilyer Abreu could have gotten the job done. And perhaps another path existed if prospects like shortstop Franklin Arias or left-handed pitcher Payton Tolle were included, though we can't say with certainty that they weren't.