Passan: Boston Red Sox Optioning Kristian Campbell

[TedYazPapiMookie]

9 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

If you didn't notice that campbell has had over twice as many AB's as hamilton and has a lower BA/OPS over the last 30 games while having twice as many AB's that's ok. It happened and that left you continuing to make excuses.

The fact is that campbell has had far more AB's over the last 7, 15 and 30 games sample sizes.

You have a topflight prospect that is struggling so you want him to lose at bats to a crap player who should be in AA or maybe AAA since he can steal?  That makes sense to you?  How does that help the future of the team?  There are guys who will be MLB players, maybe even MLB stars or superstars and there are players who are career minor league players.  Campbell is the MLB skilled player and Hamilton is the career MILB player like Cora, Kiki Hernandez and Jeter Downs. 

Sure, some players have connections like the Coras, Kiki and other buddies of the Cora family and their connections but that doesn't mean they should take playing time from legitimate MLB players.  That's just wrong.  Favoritism vs skills-based playing time is a huge issue in Boston and has been for years.  Henry got his rep as a racist from it.  Cora's prejudice is towards Latins.  A merit system has never existed in Boston and probably never will.  

So if you want to evaluate Campbell on a minute subset of his at bats after he completely out-performed the predestined stars and of course the minor league friends of Cora that's fine.  Heck of way to root for a team to win. 

[TedYazPapiMookie]

10 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

If you didn't notice that campbell has had over twice as many AB's as hamilton and has a lower BA/OPS over the last 30 games while having twice as many AB's that's ok. It happened and that left you continuing to make excuses.

The fact is that campbell has had far more AB's over the last 7, 15 and 30 games sample sizes.

FYI... BA/OPS?  seriously?  You do realize OPS double accounts BA so naturally a higher BA during a time period will produce a higher OPS and exaggerate the difference!!

Every at bat that goes to Hamilton, Eaton or any other career minor leaguer rather than Campbell is a wasted at bat for the future.  This is the chance to work with the young players and help them with adjustments not play crap players like Hamilton.  He belongs in AA playing with Jeter Downs.

 

[Bellhorn04]

6 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

FYI... BA/OPS?  seriously?  You do realize OPS double accounts BA so naturally a higher BA during a time period will produce a higher OPS and exaggerate the difference!!

Every at bat that goes to Hamilton, Eaton or any other career minor leaguer rather than Campbell is a wasted at bat for the future.  This is the chance to work with the young players and help them with adjustments not play crap players like Hamilton.  He belongs in AA playing with Jeter Downs.

 

Crap player Hamilton had a 2 run homer and a single last night and was instrumental in a win.  The team is trying to win games right now, not just work with young players.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

6 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

FYI... BA/OPS?  seriously?  You do realize OPS double accounts BA so naturally a higher BA during a time period will produce a higher OPS and exaggerate the difference!!

Every at bat that goes to Hamilton, Eaton or any other career minor leaguer rather than Campbell is a wasted at bat for the future.  This is the chance to work with the young players and help them with adjustments not play crap players like Hamilton.  He belongs in AA playing with Jeter Downs.

 

And hamilton hit a HR last night!

Again, your man crush campbell has had way more at bats than hamilton, even over the last 7 games, so your premise is BS.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

6 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

  Campbell is the MLB skilled player 

 

He's shown very little evidence of that since April......

[Bellhorn04]

19 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

True, but .700 at BOS would beat KC, and his D is no worse than KC.

 .600 would beat DHam, but not his D.

Grissom is just not an MLB player.

[oldtimer]

48 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Crap player Hamilton had a 2 run homer and a single last night and was instrumental in a win.  The team is trying to win games right now, not just work with young players.

If you can't hit you don't belong in the majors, no matter how well you can defend and his defense was shaky. Give the kid a break so that he can hone his talents before bringing him back. He will be a good one after a little more time in the minors.

[notin]

51 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Grissom is just not an MLB player.

I disagree.  But he’s definitely not the star Atlanta thought he was when they rushed him to MLB at 21 years old…

[Bellhorn04]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

I disagree.  But he’s definitely not the star Atlanta thought he was when they rushed him to MLB at 21 years old…

His Worcester numbers confirm his lack of power.  He has a very limited skill set.

[notin]

5 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

His Worcester numbers confirm his lack of power.  He has a very limited skill set.

He’s a backend starter/utility infielder, which makes him a below average Major Leaguer.  But still a Major Leaguer, and roughly half of them are below average 

[Bellhorn04]

16 minutes ago, notin said:

He’s a backend starter/utility infielder, which makes him a below average Major Leaguer.  But still a Major Leaguer, and roughly half of them are below average 

He's probably the classic Replacement Level Player.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Grissom is just not an MLB player.

On defense, that looks totally correct. There may be hope he can hit, but the lack of power would mean he'd have to really step it up. If he can't hit .750 in AAA, I'm doubtful he can hit .700 in MLB, I'd rather have the speedy DHam at .625, due to his defense, but not against LHPs.

Does Eaton really show more promise? (I'm not sure, but Brez must think so.)

[TedYazPapiMookie]

7 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Crap player Hamilton had a 2 run homer and a single last night and was instrumental in a win.  The team is trying to win games right now, not just work with young players.

I believe the old adage "every once in a while and blind squirrel finds an acorn!!" fits.

[moonslav59]

54 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

I believe the old adage "every once in a while and blind squirrel finds an acorn!!" fits.

Blind KC was finding no acorns, since mid April.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

2 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

I believe the old adage "every once in a while and blind squirrel finds an acorn!!" fits.

Yeah I love it when fans make an argument using literally what happened yesterday.  We've seen enough of Hamilton to know what he is and more importantly what he is not. And he is not an everyday player.  

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Yeah I love it when fans make an argument using literally what happened yesterday.  We've seen enough of Hamilton to know what he is and more importantly what he is not. And he is not an everyday player.  

Yeah I love it when fans make arguments using literally what never happened, ever.

Not a single poster said DHam is an everyday player.

The debate is over who is better, right now: DHam or KC, of if KC is not playing everyday, should he stay riding the bench vs RHPs (65-70% of games?)

[mvp 78]

9 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

He's probably the classic Replacement Level Player.

Worse IMO

[TedYazPapiMookie]

10 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

He's shown very little evidence of that since April......

He's factually shown more over the body of his work this season than both Mayer and Anthony.  That doesn't make any of the big three worthy of being demoted at this point in time.  The team should be doing whatever it takes to work with all of the young players to shorten their learning curve on adjusting as a teams get a book built on them.  Campbell isn't a lesser player than the other two because he proved he was better last year, and he's had more success this year.  They are all young and in the process of learning how to be MLB players.  Anthony and Mayer simply started later.  Their minor league track record significantly separates them from Hamilton in everybody's eyes except Cora.  Hamilton should have been sent down not Campbell. 

Instead, the coaching staff should be banding together to create an accelerated program to help the big 3 accomplish an abridged version of learning how to adjust to MLB pitching.  Nobody should be focusing on trying to win right now by using scrubs.  This should be about the future and the sooner the top prospects are all looking like top prospects in the MLB the better this franchise will be going forward.  

Which is better?  This make-shift crap team Cora is using winning enough games to finish several games short of the playoffs in 2025 or the future team struggling and working extensively at the MLB level with the coaching staff to shorten the learning curve and move this roster toward big success in 2026?

My vote is clearly on focusing on the future and letting the pipe dream go.  They aren't good enough to make the playoffs this year, even when Bregman comes back.  If Breslow can get Cora to dump the pretenders he's using by making deals to get all-star level talent, then going after the playoffs makes sense.  Otherwise, the future makes the most sense.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

48 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yeah I love it when fans make arguments using literally what never happened, ever.

Not a single poster said DHam is an everyday player.

The debate is over who is better, right now: DHam or KC, of if KC is not playing everyday, should he stay riding the bench vs RHPs (65-70% of games?)

You nailed the reason KC got demoted -- he needs to play everyday somewhere. 

And it's definitely an indictment on Campbell's D that he's been replaced lately by Hamilton -- a guy who needs to play neveryday.

If the Sox want to get serious about going for it, when Bregman returns they'll move Story to 2B and insert Mayer at SS, at least for the rest of the season. And they will also add a power bat at 1B -- hopefully before the deadline.

Campbell may still return this summer, but it won't be at 2B. Maybe he's the 1B... or a corner outfielder... or DH. His job is to rake; he wasn't the Minor League Player of the Year because of his glove...

 

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

You nailed the reason KC got demoted -- he needs to play everyday somewhere. 

And it's definitely an indictment on Campbell's D that he's been replaced lately by Hamilton -- a guy who needs to play neveryday.

If the Sox want to get serious about going for it, when Bregman returns they'll move Story to 2B and insert Mayer at SS, at least for the rest of the season. And they will also add a power bat at 1B -- hopefully before the deadline.

Campbell may still return this summer, but it won't be at 2B. Maybe he's the 1B... or a corner outfielder... or DH. His job is to rake; he wasn't the Minor League Player of the Year because of his glove...

 

Agreed, except I don't see Campbell in the OF, unless we make a trade. We already have a logjam that was only cleared a but by the DH position being opened up.

I like the IF or Bregman at 3rd, Mayer at SS and Story at 2B. I'm okay with flipping Story and Mayer, as Story's D has returned to plus. 

The OF looks very set: We can't do much better than Abreu-Ref in RF. Rafaela looks like a lock in CF, now. Duran struggles vs LHPs, but he makes up for that in other ways. Anthony could be the final answer in LF, but he still has to earn that slot. The DH is open for Refsnyder and Duran/Anthony and maybe Romy, if Ref is in the OF. (Yoshida needs to be mentioned, too.)

I think we need to find a big bat, but we still need pitching boosted, too.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

32 minutes ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

He's factually shown more over the body of his work this season than both Mayer and Anthony.  That doesn't make any of the big three worthy of being demoted at this point in time.  The team should be doing whatever it takes to work with all of the young players to shorten their learning curve on adjusting as a teams get a book built on them.  Campbell isn't a lesser player than the other two because he proved he was better last year, and he's had more success this year.  They are all young and in the process of learning how to be MLB players.  Anthony and Mayer simply started later.  Their minor league track record significantly separates them from Hamilton in everybody's eyes except Cora.  Hamilton should have been sent down not Campbell. 

Instead, the coaching staff should be banding together to create an accelerated program to help the big 3 accomplish an abridged version of learning how to adjust to MLB pitching.  Nobody should be focusing on trying to win right now by using scrubs.  This should be about the future and the sooner the top prospects are all looking like top prospects in the MLB the better this franchise will be going forward.  

Which is better?  This make-shift crap team Cora is using winning enough games to finish several games short of the playoffs in 2025 or the future team struggling and working extensively at the MLB level with the coaching staff to shorten the learning curve and move this roster toward big success in 2026?

My vote is clearly on focusing on the future and letting the pipe dream go.  They aren't good enough to make the playoffs this year, even when Bregman comes back.  If Breslow can get Cora to dump the pretenders he's using by making deals to get all-star level talent, then going after the playoffs makes sense.  Otherwise, the future makes the most sense.

He factually sucks at the major league level thus far despite your man crush. Spin it how you like.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

1 hour ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

He factually sucks at the major league level thus far despite your man crush. Spin it how you like.

Facts don't support what you say and the spinning is being done by you.  He had great success in his first 29 games.  His current performance is not distinguishably different from Mayer and Anthony in the limited times they have been in the MLB.  Unfortunately, they haven't had his short-lived success but at least he had it and got the satisfaction to know that he has the skills and just needs to make the adjustments needed to be great going forward.  

Hating on a prospect, odd way to be a supportive fan in my book.  I bet you would have complained when Williams went 2 for 9 to start the season or when he only hit .257 in 25 games in May of 1939 when he was 20!!  Or maybe that slacker YAZ who was hitting .213 on June 6, 1961 at age 21 and ended up with a -0.3 WAR his rookie year.

Wake up and be just a little bit rational in your comments.   The big three may not rise quite as quickly as Ted Williams but they are mimicking the start of YAZ, and most star Boston players in their first year.  Was YAZ sent down in June of 1961 for batting .213, 10 full points below Campbell?  That means YAZ sucked too based on your assessment of Campbell.  How lame is that?  Yaz and Cambell suck?  What a quality evaluator you are!!! hahaha

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Facts don't support what you say and the spinning is being done by you.  He had great success in his first 29 games.  His current performance is not distinguishably different from Mayer and Anthony in the limited times they have been in the MLB.  Unfortunately, they haven't had his short-lived success but at least he had it and got the satisfaction to know that he has the skills and just needs to make the adjustments needed to be great going forward.  

Hating on a prospect, odd way to be a supportive fan in my book.  I bet you would have complained when Williams went 2 for 9 to start the season or when he only hit .257 in 25 games in May of 1939 when he was 20!!  Or maybe that slacker YAZ who was hitting .213 on June 6, 1961 at age 21 and ended up with a -0.3 WAR his rookie year.

Wake up and be just a little bit rational in your comments.   The big three may not rise quite as quickly as Ted Williams but they are mimicking the start of YAZ, and most star Boston players in their first year.  Was YAZ sent down in June of 1961 for batting .213, 10 full points below Campbell?  That means YAZ sucked too based on your assessment of Campbell.  How lame is that?  Yaz and Cambell suck?  What a quality evaluator you are!!! hahaha

It's not "hating" on a player to say he "sucks SO FAR." 

Far tamer than words I've heard about KC's teammate and Red Sox player DHam.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

9 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Facts don't support what you say and the spinning is being done by you.  He had great success in his first 29 games.  His current performance is not distinguishably different from Mayer and Anthony in the limited times they have been in the MLB.  Unfortunately, they haven't had his short-lived success but at least he had it and got the satisfaction to know that he has the skills and just needs to make the adjustments needed to be great going forward.  

Hating on a prospect, odd way to be a supportive fan in my book.  I bet you would have complained when Williams went 2 for 9 to start the season or when he only hit .257 in 25 games in May of 1939 when he was 20!!  Or maybe that slacker YAZ who was hitting .213 on June 6, 1961 at age 21 and ended up with a -0.3 WAR his rookie year.

Wake up and be just a little bit rational in your comments.   The big three may not rise quite as quickly as Ted Williams but they are mimicking the start of YAZ, and most star Boston players in their first year.  Was YAZ sent down in June of 1961 for batting .213, 10 full points below Campbell?  That means YAZ sucked too based on your assessment of Campbell.  How lame is that?  Yaz and Cambell suck?  What a quality evaluator you are!!! hahaha

What a load of nonsense. mayer and anthony have a much smaller sample size than your man crush.

And I never stated that campbell will suck for the rest of his career, only that he sucks right now. Time will tell if he can turn it around like yaz.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

13 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Yeah I love it when fans make arguments using literally what never happened, ever.

Not a single poster said DHam is an everyday player.

The debate is over who is better, right now: DHam or KC, of if KC is not playing everyday, should he stay riding the bench vs RHPs (65-70% of games?)

Oh I know what the discussion is about. And I do support sending Campbell down to work things out. My post was a response to all the love Hamilton is getting, one post after he had one good game, when we've seen him enough to know that he is not a good player and never will be.  

[Bellhorn04]

22 minutes ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Oh I know what the discussion is about. And I do support sending Campbell down to work things out. My post was a response to all the love Hamilton is getting, one post after he had one good game, when we've seen him enough to know that he is not a good player and never will be.  

Hamilton was good in 2024.  He had a 2.6 bWAR in about half a season's work.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

13 hours ago, TedYazPapiMookie said:

Instead, the coaching staff should be banding together to create an accelerated program to help the big 3 accomplish an abridged version of learning how to adjust to MLB pitching.  Nobody should be focusing on trying to win right now by using scrubs.  This should be about the future and the sooner the top prospects are all looking like top prospects in the MLB the better this franchise will be going forward.  

Which is better?  This make-shift crap team Cora is using winning enough games to finish several games short of the playoffs in 2025 or the future team struggling and working extensively at the MLB level with the coaching staff to shorten the learning curve and move this roster toward big success in 2026?

My vote is clearly on focusing on the future and letting the pipe dream go.  They aren't good enough to make the playoffs this year, even when Bregman comes back.  If Breslow can get Cora to dump the pretenders he's using by making deals to get all-star level talent, then going after the playoffs makes sense.  Otherwise, the future makes the most sense.

While the Red Sox front office is notorious this decade for a pretension of contention, Alex Cora has been vocal for caring more about playing in October than Wait Til Next Year (or the Year After That, or a Future He May Never See).

The manager's job, after all, is to win now with what he has. Cora may be a lot of things to a lot of people, but he's not some front office secret agent disguised in a Sox uniform infiltrating the dugout and pretending to try. 

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Oh I know what the discussion is about. And I do support sending Campbell down to work things out. My post was a response to all the love Hamilton is getting, one post after he had one good game, when we've seen him enough to know that he is not a good player and never will be.  

 

3 hours ago, Yaz Fan Since 67 said:

Oh I know what the discussion is about. And I do support sending Campbell down to work things out. My post was a response to all the love Hamilton is getting, one post after he had one good game, when we've seen him enough to know that he is not a good player and never will be.  

As a fan, what's wrong with showing some love to a player who had a nice game? Nobody was using that one game as an argument that DHam was a good or even decent everyday player.

The fact is, he's done better than Campbell over the last two months- better OPS, better defense- better baserunning. Campbell did great for the two weeks before that.

I'll still bet on Campbell to end up being the better player. I've not heard a single person say otherwise or even hint at it. We made our point, and the next game DHam helped us win. We brought it up in joyous fashion with may a little too much "'in your face" pizazz, but one has to be able to see that as doing exactly what TYPM does with nearly every post.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Hamilton was good in 2024.  He had a 2.6 bWAR in about half a season's work.

Yes. He's been better than Campbell, at the major league level is all we were saying. 2025 and career. Better bat, better glove and better running.

Nobody said he should be our FT 2Bman forever- just that he looks like a better option than Campbell, for now. The added point about Campbell needing to play FT just solidifies the point.

I'd rather have Romy at 2B, but he's needed at 1B. Also, Romy's numbers vs RHPs are no better than DHam's, so he'd just platoon, there if we could.

Oue 2B situation sucks, once again. We are talking about choosing who sucks the least, and not who has the better looking extended future.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

While the Red Sox front office is notorious this decade for a pretension of contention, Alex Cora has been vocal for caring more about playing in October than Wait Til Next Year (or the Year After That, or a Future He May Never See).

The manager's job, after all, is to win now with what he has. Cora may be a lot of things to a lot of people, but he's not some front office secret agent disguised in a Sox uniform infiltrating the dugout and pretending to try. 

Very well said, as always.

I'm wondering how he will enact those feelings, once he becomes our GM.