Red Sox (Dobbins) vs Tigers (Skubal): 5/14/25, 6:40pm

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

Exactly.

A lot can change in just one week.  We've seen it happen many times.  

This year, the Dodgers have lost 3 straight and 4 out of 5, twice, already.

True, they have much better and longer winning stretches, but there are plenty of examples of bad stretches by good teams.

[Maxbialystock]

1 hour ago, Kimmi said:

That's all I'm saying.  There is hope for the season moving forward.

I was disappointed when I saw the run differential next to 1 more loss than wins.  But I think your point is correct--it should give us hope.  

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

5 hours ago, illinoisredsox said:

In the end, there there’s a huge difference between the two, but the sheer number of games magnifies small differences in success.  The number of wins you used is about 3 wins per month over the season.

What was it they said in Bull Durham.  One hit a week is the difference between the mediocre .250 hitter and a HOF .300 hitter.

That's great, would you rather hit .250 or .300?

[illinoisredsox]

1 hour ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

That's great, would you rather hit .250 or .300?

As usual, you totally missed the point.  Not the first time just in this thread.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

45 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

As usual, you totally missed the point.  Not the first time just in this thread.

The point is .300 is better than .250 just like 97 wins is better than 81

[illinoisredsox]

1 hour ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

The point is .300 is better than .250 just like 97 wins is better than 81

We all got your point; you are merely being argumentative if you can't even acknowledge how close very good and decidedly average are in baseball.

Your mind is made up; no sense engaging you.

[notin]

1 hour ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

The point is .300 is better than .250 just like 97 wins is better than 81

That’s really great that you know which number is bigger.  Maybe tomorrow we can work on capital letters…

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

The point is .300 is better than .250 just like 97 wins is better than 81

Not if you hit .300 and win 80 games and .250 and win 97.

Isn't 15 runs plus better than 15 minus kinda the same thing?

[FredLynn]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Almost every winning team has times like this. There is a lot of season left to play.

True. But at this point it’s pretty clear what weaknesses need to be addressed. The pen, and 1B. The pen was never addressed in the offseason. It’s obviously our main concern. We won’t go anywhere unless their performance greatly improves.

[notin]

17 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

True. But at this point it’s pretty clear what weaknesses need to be addressed. The pen, and 1B. The pen was never addressed in the offseason. It’s obviously our main concern. We won’t go anywhere unless their performance greatly improves.

Well, I wouldn’t say the pen wasn’t addressed.  They did add Aroldis Chapman and Justin Wilson, plus expected the return of Liam Hendriks…

[moonslav59]

32 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

True. But at this point it’s pretty clear what weaknesses need to be addressed. The pen, and 1B. The pen was never addressed in the offseason. It’s obviously our main concern. We won’t go anywhere unless their performance greatly improves.

The 1B issue has come up almost every year. I can see why they had faith in Dalbec a pretty nice first couple of seasons (.800+ OPS) and Casas, too, but no depth, at all. This winter we traded Gasper and Meidroth, and never asked Devers to pick up a 1Bman's mitt, as far as I know.

The pen was the obvious biggest weakness as winter came to a close. I'm glad they made an effort to bolster the rotation depth, as we've already hit #10 and #11 on the winter depth chart. I'm glad we got Bregman as the RHB and defensive upgrade, but just adding Chapman and Wilson (plus Hendriks return) seemed woefully short-sighted. I guess we could have signed Tanner Scott over Buehler for about the same AAV, but the length of his contract must have scared JH away.

Maybe the hope was the excess SP'er depth would be the pen additions, but we have seen very little of that, and when the do pitch from the pen, they have sucked, except for maybe Newcomb, but he wasn't even listed on the early winter depth chart of SP'er. (Criswell has an ERA over 10 from the pen.)

Maybe, when Buehler and Fitts return, someone else has better success, otherwise, we'll probably see the 2025 versions of Luis Garcia and Lucas Sims.

[oldtimer]

13 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

I was disappointed when I saw the run differential next to 1 more loss than wins.  But I think your point is correct--it should give us hope.  

If we are reduced to hope instead of action, then we will remain in this funk. We need a spark and players have  to realize their positions on the team are based on performance. That goes for the manager as well. Too many are recommending doing nothing and hoping for a different result. Shaking things up is at least worth trying.  An example might be to move Story to first and bringing Mayer up at short. Maybe Story gets the message. Cora doesn't seem to like that kind of approach, then maybe it's time for him to go.

[Bellhorn04]

9 hours ago, notin said:

Well, I wouldn’t say the pen wasn’t addressed.  They did add Aroldis Chapman and Justin Wilson, plus expected the return of Liam Hendriks…

They did some 'addressing' but it certainly appears they didn't do enough.

[Old Red]

13 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

They did some 'addressing' but it certainly appears they didn't do enough.

I think they were counting to much on Hendriks, and were really expecting him to be the closer. Whit has been the big disappointment so far.

[notin]

31 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

They did some 'addressing' but it certainly appears they didn't do enough.

Yes, but that’s hindsight.

The big issue to me appears that they’re counting too much on Slaten and Whitlock in key situations.

Also any time they get a promising young reliever, they push him into the rotation until he gets injured…

[notin]

17 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I think they were counting to much on Hendriks, and were really expecting him to be the closer. Whit has been the big disappointment so far.

They did spend nearly $12mill on Chapman.  Even if they expected Hendriks to close, they had a Plan B…

[Bellhorn04]

Just now, notin said:

Yes, but that’s hindsight.

Many of us thought they needed to do more than they did.    

[Bellhorn04]

The bullpen isn't very good.  Someone has to be responsible for that, no?

[notin]

39 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

They did some 'addressing' but it certainly appears they didn't do enough.

Not sure why the quotes.  Chapman has been their best reliever this year…

[notin]

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The bullpen isn't very good.  Someone has to be responsible for that, no?

I’d call it a group effort that includes the pitchers themselves.

Whats with the blame stuff?  
 

I think and I’ve been on this since spring training, if the Sox kept Whitlock, Slaton, Fitts, and Guerrero as the core of that bullpen, they’d be fine.  I think thats still true.  (For a long time I wanted Houck in there, but that was before Guerrero, Slaton and Fitts.)

Of course I also advocated for cutting Justin Wilson minutes after he signed.  So there is that..

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

I’d call it a group effort that includes the pitchers themselves.

Whats with the blame stuff?

What's with the blame stuff? LOL good one.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

What's with the blame stuff? LOL good one.

Blame is the name of the game. Especially in Boston.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

11 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Not if you hit .300 and win 80 games and .250 and win 97.

Isn't 15 runs plus better than 15 minus kinda the same thing?

So you'd rather win 81 games as opposed to 97?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

12 hours ago, illinoisredsox said:

We all got your point; you are merely being argumentative if you can't even acknowledge how close very good and decidedly average are in baseball.

Your mind is made up; no sense engaging you.

There is no argument.

97 wins is far better than 81, pretty simple.

[notin]

47 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

There is no argument.

97 wins is far better than 81, pretty simple.

That was never the argument…

[illinoisredsox]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

That was never the argument…

At this point, it’s obvious SplinteredSplendor is just arguing for the sake of arguing and trolling us.  No person over the age of 6 could possibly be this obtuse.

[FredLynn]

12 hours ago, notin said:

Well, I wouldn’t say the pen wasn’t addressed.  They did add Aroldis Chapman and Justin Wilson, plus expected the return of Liam Hendriks…

Its clear that the pen wasn't ADEQUATELY addressed, based on performance so far. How many times has our bullpen cost us games we should have won already? Probably at least half a dozen.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

They did some 'addressing' but it certainly appears they didn't do enough.

While Martin was not great in 2024, Jansen got the job done. I'd say replacing Jansen & martin with Chapman, Wilson & Hendriks looked close to a push, BUT the pen was weak, last year, despite some metrics that showed they were not that bad or even good.

RP IP Lost from 2024

55 Jansen 3.29 (27 svs)

50 Chase Anderson 4.11 (much in low leverage)

44 Martin 3.45

43 Booser 3.38

25 Keller 5.85 (scrub innings)

Horn, Garcia, Sims, Joely & others

IP Leaders of '25 (pen only)

22 Whitlock 4.43 (started strongly)

18 Weissert 3.44

17 Slaten 4.76 (struggling)

16 Bernardino 1.65

16 Chapman 2.25 (6 svs)

14 Wilson 2.51 

12 Wink 3.86

11 Newcomb 1.64

10 Hendriks 1.80

10 Kelly 9.00

Criswell, Guerrero, Fulmer (gone) & Stock

14 used, so far.

[mvp 78]

12 hours ago, notin said:

Well, I wouldn’t say the pen wasn’t addressed.  They did add Aroldis Chapman and Justin Wilson, plus expected the return of Liam Hendriks…

Last year, the pen was 14th in fWAR. The moves they made were lateral at best. Imagine if Chapman was the 8th inning guy and they signed a closer like Tanner Scott or Carlos Estevez. Or keep Chapman as a closer but add Minter or Yates? 3-4 more wins maybe? 

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, notin said:

Yes, but that’s hindsight.

The big issue to me appears that they’re counting too much on Slaten and Whitlock in key situations.

Also any time they get a promising young reliever, they push him into the rotation until he gets injured…

Not sure it was hindsight. Hendriks looked like toast last season. A lot of us thought Chapman and Hendriks would be given the closer role and lose it because of lack of success. Clearly there was a perceived need at the back end of the bullpen.