Article: Rafael Devers May Actually Play First Base, Eventually

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Well, yes and no.

He did actually have shoulder surgery and I would hope you can see how that affects his ability to make throws from the outfield.

But he is a bad fit here if Devers remains at DH…

Yeah you’re not having surgery for a fake shoulder injury.  His injury is legit.

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

You replied to my statement, not Cora’s.

It is true if a bad defensive player refuses a managerial request to move, HEs a bad teammate.  As I stated earlier, Cora has been unwilling to move Devers multiple times now.  But is this an infication that he likes Devers at 3b or thinks Devers can be difficult?

I replied to your statement with what Cora actually said. I don’t think Cora really liked Raffy at 3B, but I do think he feels Raffy is fine at DH now, and unlike many others doesn’t feel Raffy should try 1B now, or maybe even feels that Raffy would not be that good at it unlike many others. I just don’t picture Raffy scooping throws out of the dirt, or turning the 3-6-3 DP.

[notin]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Devers has arguably been the worse full time 3B in baseball the past few years.

 

i employ people, if you’re the worse at something im moving your job responsibilities and I have zero remorse.  Im sure running a baseball team ain’t the same thing but I’ve learned to always make it about the work.  
 

Raffy can’t argue with the play.  He can hit but he can’t pick it.  
 

I think he has a right to upset with how things were conveyed to him and how they played out.  But ultimately he needs to get over it and pick up that 1B glove.

He might end up being the worst defensive 1b, as well.  And if that was his concern, it’s at least understandable.  
 

In my viewpoint, his promise was kept and he lost the 3b job on his own.  But he has portrayed himself as a victim, and instead he looks like an entitled complainer.  He’s an adult who should know better…

[notin]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

I replied to your statement with what Cora actually said. I don’t think Cora really liked Raffy at 3B, but I do think he feels Raffy is fine at DH now, and unlike many others doesn’t feel Raffy should try 1B now, or maybe even feels that Raffy would not be that good at it unlike many others. I just don’t picture Raffy scooping throws out of the dirt, or turning the 3-6-3 DP.

If Cora didn’t like Devers at 3b, why was his campaign around signing Bregman predicated on moving the Gold Glove third baseman over to 2b?

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

Well, yes and no.

He did actually have shoulder surgery and I would hope you can see how that affects his ability to make throws from the outfield.

But he is a bad fit here if Devers remains at DH…

I believe Yoshida not being able to throw is just a cover story of why he’s not on the team. I don’t believe Yoshida will see the Red Sox OF again healthy, or not, and especially with Anthony waiting in the wings.

[Bellhorn04]

21 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

As for Story's very it's still early hot streak, does anyone remember most of the pitches he barreled were hanging breaking balls? Maybe he's not just in a slump...

Not only that but most of his damage was against lefties.  1.044 vs. lefties, .562 against righties.

He does look pretty toasty as a hitter.

 

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

If Cora didn’t like Devers at 3b, why was his campaign around signing Bregman predicated on moving the Gold Glove third baseman over to 2b?

Seems like Cora was just floating possible stuff out there, stuff that we latched onto hard the way we do.

Bregman played no 2B in spring games.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

Mets Predicted to Make Rafael Devers Move Amid Mark Vientos News

[Old Red]

22 minutes ago, notin said:

If Cora didn’t like Devers at 3b, why was his campaign around signing Bregman predicated on moving the Gold Glove third baseman over to 2b?

There were plenty of rumors about signing another 3B also. I think Cora more than anyone else knew what Raffy’s reaction would be about telling him he would no longer be playing 3B, so he was just biding time with the Bregman possibility. Just like now I think moving Raffy to 1B thing is all Brez, and not Cora, and that’s why Cora said he wasn’t even going to talk to Raffy about it, but Brez did, and that may be what pissed Raffy even off more. I may be way off base on this theory, but that’s what I’m going with. That’s why Raffy said that Brez should learn how to do his job.

[Hugh2]

3B to 1B is seemingly a common and easy transition.  What made Devers a bad 3B is less relevant at 1B.  There’s no real reason to think he couldn’t be a good 1B.  He’s being coddled, he might have a legitimate gripe about how the situation was handled this offseason and I defended him then but he’s being coddled.

The best permutation for this team going forward involves Devers at 1B.  I think it’s only a matter of time, the man who cuts the checks to his 300 million plus just flew 1/2 way across the country to tell him so.  Then we can all move on with our lives.

Now Devers can be the 1B next year as well.  The move should be permanent, regardless of Casas. 

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

There were plenty of rumors about signing another 3B also. I think Cora more than anyone else knew what Raffy’s reaction would be about telling him he would no longer be playing 3B, so he was just biding time with the Bregman possibility. Just like now I think moving Raffy to 1B thing is all Brez, and not Cora, and that’s why Cora said he wasn’t even going to talk to Raffy about it, but Brez did, and that may be what pissed Raffy even off more. I may be way off base on this theory, but that’s what I’m going with.

I think any GM, or CBO would make that move.  It’s not like Breslow blew out Casas tendon.  I think anyone in Breslow position would be asking the same exact thing.

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

3B to 1B is seemingly a common and easy transition.  What made Devers a bad 3B is less relevant at 1B.  There’s no real reason to think he couldn’t be a good 1B.  He’s being coddled, he might have a legitimate gripe about how the situation was handled this offseason and I defended him then but he’s being coddled.

The best permutation for this team going forward involves Devers at 1B.  I think it’s only a matter of time, the man who cuts the checks to his 300 million plus just flew 1/2 way across the country to tell him so.  Then we can all move on with our lives.

Now Devers can be the 1B next year as well.  The move should be permanent, regardless of Casas. 

For many like Boomer Scott, and Youk moving from 3B to1B was an easy move, but I just haven’t seen anything from Raffy that would lead me to believe he would be good at scooping balls out of the dirt, turning the 3-6-3 DP, or flipping the ball to the pitcher, and most of all why he would be a better short, or long term solution than Campbell, or anyone else.

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I think any GM, or CBO would make that move.  It’s not like Breslow blew out Casas tendon.  I think anyone in Breslow position would be asking the same exact thing.

I think the way it appears that Cora disagreeing I  would disagree that Any GM-CBO would make that move. I would go with Cora’s judgement over Brez, or any other GM-CBO.

[notin]

49 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I believe Yoshida not being able to throw is just a cover story of why he’s not on the team. I don’t believe Yoshida will see the Red Sox OF again healthy, or not, and especially with Anthony waiting in the wings.

He probably shouldn’t see the OF again, given his abilities or lack thereof.  But since Bloom promised him he’d get to be the DH, Devers needs to step aside. (Sarcasm.)

[notin]

20 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I think the way it appears that Cora disagreeing I  would disagree that Any GM-CBO would make that move. I would go with Cora’s judgement over Brez, or any other GM-CBO.

Cora’s judgment?  The same judgment that decided filming opposing pitching signals and relaying them to the hitter is a good idea?

Yeah that’s the guy to ally with here.

Breslow is Cora’s boss. That’s what matters.  Cora clearly doesn’t agree with him and has even attempted to be a good soldier, which are certainly his rights…

[notin]

36 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I think any GM, or CBO would make that move.  It’s not like Breslow blew out Casas tendon.  I think anyone in Breslow position would be asking the same exact thing.

And I think Devers could refuse in ways that were more understandable.  Like “i dont know how to play first base” or something like that.

But his whole “do they expect me to play every position” sounded too much like a contrived plea for sympathy in a situation where no one was ever going to sympathize, excluding those who have created entire scenarios detailing what Devers was promised and is therefore dutifully owed…

[notin]

The Reds just acquired Connor Joe.

Why doesn’t Breslow just do his job and get a player like that?

(Again, sarcasm.  Joe is the less versatile version of Romy Gonzalez.)

But thats the kind of players you get in May trades…

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

Cora’s judgment?  The same judgment that decided filming opposing pitching signals and relaying them to the hitter is a good idea?

Yeah that’s the guy to ally with here.

Breslow is Cora’s boss. That’s what matters.  Cora clearly doesn’t agree with him and has even attempted to be a good soldier, which are certainly his rights…

#1 I’m not a Cora fan, and have said before that I never would have hired Cora back in the first place after the cheating scandal. Having said that I do trust his judgment on if Raffy should try 1B, or not. No one is disputing that Brez is Cora’s boss, but if my theory is right that Sam, and JH just didn’t show up in KC to talk with Raffy, but to referee between Cora, and Brez as well. JH no doubt likes Cora, and kept him over Bloom, so we’ll just have to wait' and see who wins out here. JH is Brez boss. That’s what matters.

[notin]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

Devers has arguably been the worse full time 3B in baseball the past few years.

 

i employ people, if you’re the worse at something im moving your job responsibilities and I have zero remorse.  Im sure running a baseball team ain’t the same thing but I’ve learned to always make it about the work.  
 

Raffy can’t argue with the play.  He can hit but he can’t pick it.  
 

I think he has a right to upset with how things were conveyed to him and how they played out.  But ultimately he needs to get over it and pick up that 1B glove.

Exactly.

I’ve been calling out Devers defense for a couple years.  My observations, as always fall into two distinct categories. 1. Times I’m right, and 2. times I’m wrong.

 

That the Sox acquired Bregman for 3b (while he was willing to play 2b) supports the first category.  All of the items in that group fall into one subheading - “stuff that should be painfully obvious”.  
 

Im not that astute.  If I see it, and I’m right, it’s obvious.  And that is why Devers lost his 3b job on his own…

[notin]

5 minutes ago, Old Red said:

#1 I’m not a Cora fan, and have said before that I never would have hired Cora back in the first place after the cheating scandal. Having said that I do trust his judgment on if Raffy should try 1B, or not. No one is disputing that Brez is Cora’s boss, but if my theory is right that Sam, and JH just didn’t show up in KC to talk with Raffy, but to referee between Cora, and Brez as well. JH no doubt likes Cora, and kept him over Bloom, so we’ll just have to wait' and see who wins out here. JH is Brez boss. That’s what matters.

Oh Ive acknowledged the possibility that Cora prefers Devers at DH, possibly over all other positions.  And that might be the right call.

Im calling out Devers and his insistence on playing the victim card over simply being a team player like most players do in similar situations.*
 

*Notable exception - Derek Jeter.  Not exactly a feather in Derek’s cap IMO…

[Hugh2]

43 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I think the way it appears that Cora disagreeing I  would disagree that Any GM-CBO would make that move. I would go with Cora’s judgement over Brez, or any other GM-CBO.

I’ve thought about this, and I don’t completely disagree with your point.  But I do think a lot baseball player operators would.  If you go back to the offseason, I think there’s blame pie to go around.  But I do see a difference in telling a guy you’re planning to move him to DH after you shop for his replacement and asking him to move to 1B because of an injury, it’s a natural move that a lot of people were calling for before last year.  Or at the very least a move to 1B seemed probable at some point in Raffys career.

 

 

 

i will say this. If the Red Sox do not plan on keeping Devers there, they shouldn’t ask him to move knowing who he is.  That’s unfair.  There’s an argument against moving Campbell to 1st, but there’s a compelling case to do so as well. I don’t want the Red Sox spending trade assets to get a 1B.  I think the Sox are going to need pitching at the deadline.  If they’re ready to move on from Casas, they should find a way to sweet talk him to moving there.  And the do him right by keeping him there.  

[Hugh2]

Add. I don’t think the Red Sox are going to move Campbell to 1b. That seems to be against their philosophy of player development and breaking young players into the majors.  They don’t fundamentally believe in asking a guy to learn and brand new position and learn how to be a big leaguer at the same time.  Of course, the Sox may well go this path and just contradict what they’ve said the last year about their top prospects.  I wouldn’t completely hate them making an exception and finding a way to work in Mayer and Anthony.  It would certainly pay dividends if those guys hit.  But I just don’t think they’re going that route.

[Maxbialystock]

16 minutes ago, notin said:

And I think Devers could refuse in ways that were more understandable.  Like “i dont know how to play first base” or something like that.

But his whole “do they expect me to play every position” sounded too much like a contrived plea for sympathy in a situation where no one was ever going to sympathize, excluding those who have created entire scenarios detailing what Devers was promised and is therefore dutifully owed…

I agree that Devers' wording is unfortunate, but I agree with his position, that over the past 3 months Breslow has been jacking him around.  The right way to do this would be to give Devers a full spring training to become a firstbaseman.  I also agree with Devers that becoming a full-time DH takes some adjusting.  Plus, given his rep on defense, I think DH is the perfect slot for him.  

And let's not kid ourselves.  The reason for moving Devers to 1b is not to replace the injured Casas, but to make room for Yoshida as the DH.  

[Old Red]

24 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I’ve thought about this, and I don’t completely disagree with your point.  But I do think a lot baseball player operators would.  If you go back to the offseason, I think there’s blame pie to go around.  But I do see a difference in telling a guy you’re planning to move him to DH after you shop for his replacement and asking him to move to 1B because of an injury, it’s a natural move that a lot of people were calling for before last year.  Or at the very least a move to 1B seemed probable at some point in Raffys career.

 

 

 

i will say this. If the Red Sox do not plan on keeping Devers there, they shouldn’t ask him to move knowing who he is.  That’s unfair.  There’s an argument against moving Campbell to 1st, but there’s a compelling case to do so as well. I don’t want the Red Sox spending trade assets to get a 1B.  I think the Sox are going to need pitching at the deadline.  If they’re ready to move on from Casas, they should find a way to sweet talk him to moving there.  And the do him right by keeping him there.  

I agree mostly with this . There have been some twists and turns in this Raffy saga, and there will probably be more before it is all done. I agree a lot of people were calling for the Raffy move to be made even before last year, but not from Cora. If Cora was in agreement on Raffy trying 1B I wouldn’t be so much against it, but I don’t believe Cora is. Yes plenty of blame to go around.

[notin]

31 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

I agree that Devers' wording is unfortunate, but I agree with his position, that over the past 3 months Breslow has been jacking him around.  The right way to do this would be to give Devers a full spring training to become a firstbaseman.  I also agree with Devers that becoming a full-time DH takes some adjusting.  Plus, given his rep on defense, I think DH is the perfect slot for him.  

And let's not kid ourselves.  The reason for moving Devers to 1b is not to replace the injured Casas, but to make room for Yoshida as the DH.  

No, but it makes the most sense to get him back. The goal as I see it is to get Abraham Toro OUT of the lineup.

Yoshida is an actual MLB hitter.  The prospects might be better, but will that be today?  The Orioles brought up several players that were all obliterating AAA pitching, and we all saw Holliday, Kjerstad, and Mayo suddenly struggle upon being promoted to MLB. (A year later, Holliday does appear to be catching on.) 

Yoshida could struggle, but he’s less likely to than Anthony or Mayer.  And certainly less likely to than Toro.  If the Sox had some Rowdy Tellez type waiting in Worcester, Toro wouldn’t be here, Yoshida would be recovering, and Devers would be the DH.

If the goal was to get Yoshida back to DH, Devers would have started playing first base a couple months ago.

I suppose the Sox could go out and acquire someone like Andrew Vaughn. Let’s face it, he’s available now.  But you have to bear in mind the 5’6” Vaughn really does suck…

[Maxbialystock]

2 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

I agree that Devers' wording is unfortunate, but I agree with his position, that over the past 3 months Breslow has been jacking him around.  The right way to do this would be to give Devers a full spring training to become a firstbaseman.  I also agree with Devers that becoming a full-time DH takes some adjusting.  Plus, given his rep on defense, I think DH is the perfect slot for him.  

And let's not kid ourselves.  The reason for moving Devers to 1b is not to replace the injured Casas, but to make room for Yoshida as the DH.  

I've got to say this one more time for emphasis.  Moving Devers has very little to do with replacing Casas, whose WAR at 1b this season was/is -0.8.  Almost anyone except Dalbec could do better.  

And it has everything to do with opening up the DH position for Yoshida, who is still on the IL and who is nowhere near the hitter Devers is.  

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, Maxbialystock said:

I've got to say this one more time for emphasis.  Moving Devers has very little to do with replacing Casas, whose WAR at 1b this season was/is -0.8.  Almost anyone except Dalbec could do better.  

And it has everything to do with opening up the DH position for Yoshida, who is still on the IL and who is nowhere near the hitter Devers is.  

The last I knew Yoshida hadn’t even appeared in any games yet even as a DH since ST, so I don’t think the Red Sox are to intent on using his bat anytime soon.

[notin]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

There were plenty of rumors about signing another 3B also. I think Cora more than anyone else knew what Raffy’s reaction would be about telling him he would no longer be playing 3B, so he was just biding time with the Bregman possibility. Just like now I think moving Raffy to 1B thing is all Brez, and not Cora, and that’s why Cora said he wasn’t even going to talk to Raffy about it, but Brez did, and that may be what pissed Raffy even off more. I may be way off base on this theory, but that’s what I’m going with. That’s why Raffy said that Brez should learn how to do his job.

Cora was apparently openly campaigning  for Bregman, just he wanted him for 2b…
 

 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

1 hour ago, notin said:

*Notable exception - Derek Jeter.  Not exactly a feather in Derek’s cap IMO…

Except for the small fact that the Yankees never asked Jeter to move.

In fact, Jeter actually told Gene Michael at one point that he would be willing to switch to 1b or DH.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

35 minutes ago, notin said:

No, but it makes the most sense to get him back. The goal as I see it is to get Abraham Toro OUT of the lineup.

Yoshida is an actual MLB hitter.  The prospects might be better, but will that be today?  The Orioles brought up several players that were all obliterating AAA pitching, and we all saw Holliday, Kjerstad, and Mayo suddenly struggle upon being promoted to MLB. (A year later, Holliday does appear to be catching on.) 

Yoshida could struggle, but he’s less likely to than Anthony or Mayer.  And certainly less likely to than Toro.  If the Sox had some Rowdy Tellez type waiting in Worcester, Toro wouldn’t be here, Yoshida would be recovering, and Devers would be the DH.

If the goal was to get Yoshida back to DH, Devers would have started playing first base a couple months ago.

I suppose the Sox could go out and acquire someone like Andrew Vaughn. Let’s face it, he’s available now.  But you have to bear in mind the 5’6” Vaughn really does suck…

I posted some stats this morning on how badly some Red Sox big league batters fared through this first quarter of the season. With several of your starting regulars mired near the Mendoza Line vs. lefty pitchers, could it be more of a disaster to promote Anthony -- who's not only as highly-touted as Holliday last year, but actually takes offseason BP together with him in dad Matt's family batting cage.

For example, Rafaela, a righty swinger, is batting .179 vs. southpaws in the majors. Anthony is at .363 vs. portsiders in Triple A. 

Of course we know the very best lefties in the world are already MLB pitchers. But we also know, as Red Sox fans, there's a lot of other hurlers doing the two-step between the bigs and minors all season as clubs seek to constantly use organizational mound depth for a steady supply of fresh arms...

Casas, in 100 plate appearances, hit .148 vs. righties. Could Anthony replace that production and actually improve the line-up? At least until someone writes an unwritten book about him... and then we can call up Mayer?