Article: Who’s the Red Sox Third Baseman? It's Messy

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

I get that pretty much every player has splits that favor them playing against a RH or LH pitcher.

But these guys aren't robots. Many of them don't want to be in and out of the line-up every day and need consistent playing time to be in a rhythm.

It looks good on paper, but won't always play out on the field.

Many teams settle on almost strict platons at some positions. Injuries may force some changes, but it often works out okay. Players that platoon must want to play FT, but for some, they would not play at all, if not for their nice splits vs certain-handed pitchers.

A guy like Refsnyder might not even make the 26, if he wasn't great vs LHPs, and the team has a great need for batters vs LHPs. If more of our players could hit both handed pitchers well, we would not need to platoon. That would be ideal, but it's not reality sand never was for many teams/players. Ref does great starting just vs LH'd starters and PH'ing other games. He ha sstarted some vs RHPs' but not many, and he does not do well, when he does.

REF 2022: 1.005 v L (1.084 vs LH SP- 20 GS) and .792 v R (.771 RH SP - 15 GS)

2023: .828 v L (.740 in 39 GS) .466 v R (.556 in 9GS)

2024: .941 v L (.905 in 31 GS) .733 v R (.774 in 30 GS) He did start many games v R, mostly when O'Neill was on the IL and Rafaela at SS.)

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

But these guys aren't robots. Many of them don't want to be in and out of the line-up every day and need consistent playing time to be in a rhythm.

I think DHam is just thrilled to be in the bigs and getting playing time, after his rotten start.

I'm pretty sure Romy will take what he can get and be happy the more he plays.

[mvp 78]

19 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed. It might even be his to lose, this ST'ing.

What's your solution, if Campbell does not make the roster? That was the scenario I proposed. It's not a far-fetched "what if," like some of my other ones.

🤪

 

If Campbell isn't on the roster:

Devers 3b

Bregman 2b

If Devers is unable to play 3b and Campbell is in AAA:

Bregman 3b

Grissom/Romy/Hamilton 2b all take turns fumbling the bag until Campbell is ready (it's what they've tried the past 2 seasons in the middle IF and it has never worked before, so why would it work now?)

[mvp 78]

Romy and Hamilton aren't starting players. They just aren't. If they can't handle part time roles, they can be DFA'd and be replaced by Grissom/Toro/Sogard and the difference would be negligible. 

[moonslav59]

14 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

 

It looks good on paper, but won't always play out on the field.

True, often platoons don't work as hoped. Sometimes, players have reverse splits and mess it up, of one or both just have bad seasons.

Sometimes, a platoon looks like a better choice than just letting Abreu play FT in RF, DHam or Romy or Grissom FT at 2B or Ref FT anywhere.

[mvp 78]

14 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The Red Sox had 11 players who played 2B for them last year, so you never know, but not being on the 40 makes it unlikely.

He may be in BOS at some point for sure, I just don't think it'll be in April. 

[mvp 78]

9 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Story. It's not hard to imagine he's not physically able to handle the rigors of shortstop -- for whatever reasons (old or new) -- while at the same time, Mayer crushes the next month in FLA.

Even if Mayer is crushing AAA pitching in Spring Training, I think he needs to go to AAA for at least a few months. He has platoon splits and struggles with offspeed stuff more so than either Campbell or Anthony. He's not as ready as the other two. Spring Training results aren't always indicative of future success (Yairo Munoz, Pedro Ciriaco, et al). 

[moonslav59]

10 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Agree, and that’s why Cora said he makes the lineup out according to the pitching matchups for the revolving door players last year.

Yup. He has used thepatoon, very often.

For the first time, in as long as I can remember, a Sox manager seemed to start his catchers, not based on who they were catching, but often by the opposing pitcher's arm side.

McGuire, who bats lefty never started vs a lefty in 2024. (41 GS v R and 0 v L)

Wong did start many games vs RHPs, but I think only after Jansen took over McGuire's job. (71 GS vs R and 42 v L, which is about every game vs a LH SP)

[Hugh2]

 

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Even if Mayer is crushing AAA pitching in Spring Training, I think he needs to go to AAA for at least a few months. He has platoon splits and struggles with offspeed stuff more so than either Campbell or Anthony. He's not as ready as the other two. Spring Training results aren't always indicative of future success (Yairo Munoz, Pedro Ciriaco, et al). 

This.  I can see Mayer coming up for an injury at some point this year, but early on in the season I don't think they will.  I think they want him to develop just a little bit more. 

Bake time is 24 minutes, Mayer is at like 21....just a LITTLE bit more time people. 

[Old Red]

16 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Romy and Hamilton aren't starting players. They just aren't. If they can't handle part time roles, they can be DFA'd and be replaced by Grissom/Toro/Sogard and the difference would be negligible. 

For a DHam, and Romy platoon at 2B to happen a lot of things would have to go wrong, or not go right like last year.

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

 

This.  I can see Mayer coming up for an injury at some point this year, but early on in the season I don't think they will.  I think they want him to develop just a little bit more. 

Bake time is 24 minutes, Mayer is at like 21....just a LITTLE bit more time people. 

And I'm not slagging on Mayer when I say those things. I think his biggest fault has been his ability to stay healthy. Easing him into the season may be better for him anyway this year. He's almost ready. It'll be exciting when he finally gets the call. 

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Old Red said:

For a DHam, and Romy platoon at 2B to happen a lot of things would have to go wrong, or not go right like last year.

Devers remains injured and Campbell isn't ready. I have no idea where Devers' shoulder is at. He took some fielding today, so maybe he's on the right track? 

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Devers remains injured and Campbell isn't ready. I have no idea where Devers' shoulder is at. He took some fielding today, so maybe he's on the right track? 

I haven’t heard he’s having trouble with the shoulder at this point, and it’s nothing more than taking it slow, and being cautious.

[Old Red]

18 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

 

This.  I can see Mayer coming up for an injury at some point this year, but early on in the season I don't think they will.  I think they want him to develop just a little bit more. 

Bake time is 24 minutes, Mayer is at like 21....just a LITTLE bit more time people. 

Good analogy.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I haven’t heard he’s having trouble with the shoulder at this point, and it’s nothing more than taking it slow, and being cautious.

He hasn't cleared rehab yet. It's not typical slow and steady Spring Training stuff this year with Devers. 

 

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He hasn't cleared rehab yet. It's not typical slow and steady Spring Training stuff this year with Devers. 

 

Neither shoulder was bad enough to have surgery though.

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Neither shoulder was bad enough to have surgery though.

And yet he's still "rehabbing" the shoulder. 

[notin]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

With Romy, the bigger upside play is that he can adequately field more than one position, but Hamilton seems limited to just 2B. 

Hamilton is limited in the field, but valuable as a pinch runner, which is more useful now until they drop the gimmicky and ridiculous ghost runner rule…

[notin]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Even if Mayer is crushing AAA pitching in Spring Training, I think he needs to go to AAA for at least a few months. He has platoon splits and struggles with offspeed stuff more so than either Campbell or Anthony. He's not as ready as the other two. Spring Training results aren't always indicative of future success (Yairo Munoz, Pedro Ciriaco, et al). 

Don’t forget Mr. March - Jeff Bailey!

[notin]

I’ve been assuming all along we’d get Devers at 3b, Bregman at 2b, and Yoshida at DH.

But now I’m pivoting towards thinking it will be Bregman at 3b, Grissom at 2b, and Devers at DH…

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Good analogy.

I know, sometimes I surprise myself. 

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, notin said:

Hamilton is limited in the field, but valuable as a pinch runner, which is more useful now until they drop the gimmicky and ridiculous ghost runner rule…

Sox had 20 extra innings games last season. I'm not sure I want to hold onto Hamilton so that he can show up once every 10 games or so. 

[mvp 78]

Here are the pinch runners in the Sox '24 extra innings games (used defensive replacements if they then went to 2nd base in the bottom half of the inning): 

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Romy

Dalbec

Nobody

Valdez

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

Nobody

While that was a bit of a tedious exercise, it showed that Cora did use a little bit of pinch running early on, but went away from it after the first few months. There were several games where Casas or other slow runners were on 2nd in the 10th and they were not subbed for. Other teams were much more likely to sub in pinch runners from what I saw, even for well regarded offensive players. 

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

For a DHam, and Romy platoon at 2B to happen a lot of things would have to go wrong, or not go right like last year.

I disagree. All it takes is Campbell to not be put on the roster and Bregman at 3B. IMO, the next best choice is not Grissom FT: he is not good on D and has a lot to prove on O. It's not DHam FT, because he has not shown he can hit LHPs worth a dime. His D is okay at 2B only and he can steal bases. It's not Romy FT, because he can't seem to hit RHPs well. It makes the most sense to platoon DHam with either Romy or Grissom. I choose Romy, because he defends better, can play more positions than Grissom and DHam and killed lefties, last year.

What is your choice at 2B, if Devers begins the year hurt and on the bench or at DH, assuming Bregman plays 3B AND Campbell is not on the roster?

I know you don't like platoons, but who would you rather have?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

Phillies blockbuster mock trade gifts them elite Red Sox 3B

[Larry Cook]

6 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Story. It's not hard to imagine he's not physically able to handle the rigors of shortstop -- for whatever reasons (old or new) -- while at the same time, Mayer crushes the next month in FLA.

I think story needs to ask Cora if he can play more 2b. Right now story is living the phrase “objects in the rear view mirror may be closer than you think” with every game Mayer plays 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

10 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

I think story needs to ask Cora if he can play more 2b. Right now story is living the phrase “objects in the rear view mirror may be closer than you think” with every game Mayer plays 

Watch Story throw to first in the next month. Right now, it doesn't look like that internal elbow brace is made out of Wolverine's adamantium. 

I could never understand Bloom or anyone else saying Story's range would make up for his weak throwing arm. So he's a fast runner -- is he going to run the ball over to first and beat the batter there?

Help me out here... this is freaking shortstop -- the most important non-battery position on the diamond, especially to pitchers.

[moonslav59]

The best Sox team, O & D combined, and with some speculation on the kids involved, might be:

C: Wong & Narvaez.

1B: Casas & Devers

DH: Devers & Casas (Ref)

2B: Campbell/Story

SS: Story/Mayer

3B: Bregman (Campbell)

LF: Duran/Ref (Anthony)

CF: Anthony/Duran (Rafaela/Campbell)

RF: Abreu/Anthony (Campbell)

Utility: Rafaela & Romy (Yoshida, DHam & Grissom in AAA)

I'm not sure how you find enough PAs if Story is 100% healthy all year, but I doubt that happens

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

The best Sox team, O & D combined, and with some speculation on the kids involved, might be:

C: Wong & Narvaez.

1B: Casas & Devers

DH: Devers & Casas (Ref)

2B: Campbell/Story

SS: Story/Mayer

3B: Bregman (Campbell)

LF: Duran/Ref (Anthony)

CF: Anthony/Duran (Rafaela/Campbell)

RF: Abreu/Anthony (Campbell)

Utility: Rafaela & Romy (Yoshida, DHam & Grissom in AAA)

I'm not sure how you find enough PAs if Story is 100% healthy all year, but I doubt that happens

How many games have you watched where devers played 1B?

[moonslav59]

41 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

How many games have you watched where devers played 1B?

Zero, but he's got a decent glove and range. it's his arm that sucks most. Of course, he doesnt play 1B, until he's shown he can in practice.

I'm fine with just saying FT DH.