Article: Who’s the Red Sox Third Baseman? It's Messy

[moonslav59]

51 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I talk to my ex-wife everyday.  We are really good friends still.  Our kids are multi-lingual and each speak two languages (although my daughter is on her third).  Their mother speaks 7 different languages, she worked in the courts as an interpreter. 

I was literally married to an interpreter.  I would like to think I at least kind of know what the ffff I'm talking about here. Saying that things don't get lost in translation is just absurdly Ludacris to me but more importantly it's not about what we heard It's about what HE heard, and I don' think many people are considering that at all.  

What position are you going to play, can turn into what position do you like playing very quickly.  "he said what he said" carries a completely different context when you can understand things get lost in transition sometimes.  I think Raffy is just going to tell us he's playing 3B until the team tells him otherwise and that's fine I honestly can't believe people give a s***.

No one is talking about this down at the Fort because literally no one else cares except us fans.  His teammates are talking about it because they don't care. 

No one cares because it's a NOTHING BURGER!!!!

I could not agree more. Very well said.

[Old Red]

39 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

This is how I see it:  Devers has been the Sox third baseman for over seven years, including on a world championship team. He is generally considered their best player at this time. Now, he hears talk that he is not good enough defensively and has to change positions to make room for the new guy. Devers is human. He has his pride and his feelings. So, he reacts by saying something like " I am the third baseman, I don't want to play another position or DH". The more diplomatic response would have been,  " I prefer playing third, but I will do whatever the manager wants to help the team".  But Devers' response was totally understandable. I don't blame the translator or the reporter. If anything, I blame Sox management for being indecisive. They should have made it clear to Devers, Bregman and Casas exactly what their plans were and what was expected from each of them. 

If the decision has already been made on 3B then I agree it’s on Cora, but IMO the big decision will come if somebody can win the 2B job well enough to play it FT. If not i still see Bregman playing there. Cora has already said he doesn’t want to move Bregman around just like he did when Story arrived his first year.

[moonslav59]

15 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

That's great, you can "think" all you like, that doesn't make it true.

And what you think is "true?"

[Larry Cook]

Bergman dropped anchor today!!!!!  First of the spring for him!!!

rafeala with a walk today!!!!!!  Wow!!!!

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

If the decision has already been made on 3B then I agree it’s on Cora, but IMO the big decision will come if somebody can win the 2B job well enough to play it FT. If not i still see Bregman playing there. Cora has already said he doesn’t want to move Bregman around just like he did when Story arrived his first year.

So, if a DHam-Romy platoon is hitting .800 and playing plus D, that's not good enough to keep Bregman at 3B?

We need a 2Bman who plays FT?

Regardless who plays 2B and how much, they are likely just a placeholder for Campbell, who may very well win the opening day job or become the FT 2Bman by May.

It's nice to have choices, and by that I mean better choices than Peraza vs Arroyo or EValdez vs Reyes.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

And what you think is "true?"

I'm not sure, actually.

From his statement, it seems to me like he thinks he's the 3B.

Time will tell how it all works out.

[Old Red]

17 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, if a DHam-Romy platoon is hitting .800 and playing plus D, that's not good enough to keep Bregman at 3B?

We need a 2Bman who plays FT?

Regardless who plays 2B and how much, they are likely just a placeholder for Campbell, who may very well win the opening day job or become the FT 2Bman by May.

It's nice to have choices, and by that I mean better choices than Peraza vs Arroyo or EValdez vs Reyes.

Both DHam, and Romy are backups, and most likely wouldn’t have even got on the 26 last year except for injuries. I don’t think they are in any running for the 2B job. Grissom, or Campbell are the front runners for the job IMO, and if they can’t win the job then Bregman will.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

Both DHam, and Romy are backups, and most likely wouldn’t have even got on the 26 last year except for injuries. I don’t think they are in any running for the 2B job. Grissom, or Campbell are the front runners for the job IMO, and if they can’t win the job then Bregman will.

EValdez and Reyes did not get injured. Grissom did, but he seemed set on losing the job, anyway.

Why does it matter how they got the job, anyway?

I agree, they are better as back-ups, but answer my question. If they hit .800, combined and play plus D, why do we need a FT'er to keep Bregman at 3B?

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

EValdez and Reyes did not get injured. Grissom did, but he seemed set on losing the job, anyway.

Why does it matter how they got the job, anyway?

I agree, they are better as back-ups, but answer my question. If they hit .800, combined and play plus D, why do we need a FT'er to keep Bregman at 3B?

I already did answer your question. DHam, and Romy aren’t in the running IMO. Grissom, and Campbell are IMO, and Campbell, and Grissom will get most of the reps. I didn’t say Evaldez, and Reyes got injured. Story, and Grissom did, and that opened up the whole revolving door need, and thus the call up of so many. If no one is good enough to play FT at 2B then Bregman would be the best option IMO. 2B is more important than 3B.

[moonslav59]

34 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I already did answer your question. DHam, and Romy aren’t in the running IMO. Grissom, and Campbell are IMO, and Campbell, and Grissom will get most of the reps. I didn’t say Evaldez, and Reyes got injured. Story, and Grissom did, and that opened up the whole revolving door need, and thus the call up of so many. If no one is good enough to play FT at 2B then Bregman would be the best option IMO. 2B is more important than 3B.

No, you answered a question I did  not ask.

I did not say DHam and Romy will hit .800. I asked, if they do, would you  still want a FT'er at 2B? (Hell, Bregman hasn't even his .800 over the past 5 years combined.)

Of course, I'd rather have Bregman at 2B than a DHam-Romy platoon. Everybody would, but the choice is not just about 2B. It's about several positions related to the choice Cora makes. Maybe Campbell, takes the choice away.

I can certainly see this position is valid, if Campbell does not win the job:  3B: Devers, 2B Bregman, Yoshida/Ref DH (and no Yoshida/Ref in the OF.) I've recognized the benefits and downfalls of this choice. The choice is not clearcut, and there may be more factors involved than we know (like Yoshida's health.)

Assuming no Campbell at 2B, I also like this plan, maybe even more: 3B: Bregman, 2B: DHam-Romy platoon, Devers DH and REF in LF vs LHPs. I know you don't like the idea, but that was not my question. There are pluses and minuses to this idea, too. Maybe Cora mixes and matches both plans and we see moving parts all over the place- just what yuou like...LOL!

[Bellhorn04]

12 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

No, you answered a question I did  not ask.

I did not say DHam and Romy will hit .800. I asked, if they do, would you  still want a FT'er at 2B? (Hell, Bregman hasn't even his .800 over the past 5 years combined.)

Of course, I'd rather have Bregman at 2B than a DHam-Romy platoon. Everybody would, but the choice is not just about 2B. It's about several positions related to the choice Cora makes. Maybe Campbell, takes the choice away.

I can certainly see this position is valid, if Campbell does not win the job:  3B: Devers, 2B Bregman, Yoshida/Ref DH (and no Yoshida/Ref in the OF.) I've recognized the benefits and downfalls of this choice. The choice is not clearcut, and there may be more factors involved than we know (like Yoshida's health.)

Assuming no Campbell at 2B, I also like this plan, maybe even more: 3B: Bregman, 2B: DHam-Romy platoon, Devers DH and REF in LF vs LHPs. I know you don't like the idea, but that was not my question. There are pluses and minuses to this idea, too. Maybe Cora mixes and matches both plans and we see moving parts all over the place- just what yuou like...LOL!

DHam and Romy were both utterly horrific against pitchers of their own hand - both .500ish OPS - we're talking helpless.  (This was a huge problem for Sox hitters in general last year.)

Platoons can be counterproductive when the hitters are that one-dimensional and we have as many pitching changes as we do now.  

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

DHam and Romy were both utterly horrific against pitchers of their own hand - both .500ish OPS.  This was a massive problem for Sox hitters in general last year.

Platoons can be counterproductive when the hitters are that one-dimensional and we have as many pitching changes as we do now.  

Hamilton isn't really all that much to write home about against RHP if he's a strict platoon bat either. 

[mvp 78]

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

 

"Pair of Sox Dig in Heels, Side-Step Selfishness"

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

DHam and Romy were both utterly horrific against pitchers of their own hand - both .500ish OPS - we're talking helpless.  (This was a huge problem for Sox hitters in general last year.)

Platoons can be counterproductive when the hitters are that one-dimensional and we have as many pitching changes as we do now.  

No doubt. Platoons are not ideal. My point was not about them hitting .800, combined, it was IF THEY DO, would that do away with the need to have to have a FT 2BMan?

Both would likely get a few ABs against the wrong handed pitchers, but the scenario was that combined, they would have an .800 OPS. (I'm not sure they can do that, since DHam will likely hit .750, at best, vs RHPs- the larger split.

[Bellhorn04]

23 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

No doubt. Platoons are not ideal. My point was not about them hitting .800, combined, it was IF THEY DO, would that do away with the need to have to have a FT 2BMan?

Both would likely get a few ABs against the wrong handed pitchers, but the scenario was that combined, they would have an .800 OPS. (I'm not sure they can do that, since DHam will likely hit .750, at best, vs RHPs- the larger split.

I think the numbers show they can't possibly hit .800 or anywhere close to it as a tandem.  Cora probably did his utmost to get them off-hand matchups last year. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Hamilton isn't really all that much to write home about against RHP if he's a strict platoon bat either. 

No, but I think the SBs add to that offensive value.

There is also the worry that he had just one hot streak.

.438 in 2023 (39 PAs)

.553 to start 2024 (36 PAs)

.916 middle 99 PAs in '24

.607 in last 182 PAs of '24

I'm not arguing DHam will be good enough, or not.

Overall, he hit .729 vs RHPs in 2024, which is not bad, but certainly hopes are we can do better than that. (27 SBs in 267 PAs vs RHPs is a nice plus.) He ended up hitting .715 in gams with a RH'd starter.

The more promising half of the platoon scenario is Romy, who had great splits vs LHPs, which is a weak area for the Sox. We have the same "was it a fluke" worry with him, too, but .879 vs LHPs and .780 when he started w a LH pitcher was pretty good.

Remember the 2024 MLB OPS was .711.

I hope Campbell wins the job, but until he does, I do think  DHam-Romy 2B platoon, with Bregman at 3B and Devers at DH might get some looks, and maybe even more looks than Bregman at 2B and Devers at 3B, especially if Devers has shoulder issues and or Yoshida is on the IL.

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The more promising half of the platoon scenario is Romy, who had great splits vs LHPs, which is a weak area for the Sox. We have the same "was it a fluke" worry with him, too, but .879 vs LHPs and .780 when he started w a LH pitcher was pretty good.

 

With Romy, the bigger upside play is that he can adequately field more than one position, but Hamilton seems limited to just 2B. 

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

With Romy, the bigger upside play is that he can adequately field more than one position, but Hamilton seems limited to just 2B. 

Romy played all four of the IF positions last year, and I could see him doing the same this year a one of the BACK UPS. Hamilton could be another, or he could possibly be beat out by Toro.

[moonslav59]

15 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think the numbers show they can't possibly hit .800 or anywhere close to it as a tandem.  Cora probably did his utmost to get them off-hand matchups last year. 

Again, the point wasn't about whether they could or will hit a combined .800 as a strict platoon, but instead, what if they did.

BTW, they did hit close to  .800 combined with splits for a stretch in 2024. Overall :

.729 DHam vs RHPs in 267 PAs

.879 Romy vs LHPs in 130 PAs

Since DHam would get about 2:1 PAs in a very strict platoon, whereby they rarely faced wrong-handed pitching, it would be projected to about .780. I realize that is a reach to suggest they might have hit .780 in 2024 with a strict alignment, but that seems like a possible potential. (Yes, that is not .800, but it's way better than the league OPS of .711  and .684 MLB 2B OPS.

[moonslav59]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

With Romy, the bigger upside play is that he can adequately field more than one position, but Hamilton seems limited to just 2B. 

Agreed, and the hypothetical scenario was a DHam playing 2B vs RHPs, only. We'd likely PH for him, if a lefty came in and we needed a hit. That is not an ideal slot for a player to have on the 26. It is very limited. I get it, but if Bregman is at 3B, and Campbell does not make the roster, I see it as the best option.

DHam can also PR, at times or replace or PH for Romy when a RHP is brought in.

[mvp 78]

15 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Romy played all four of the IF positions last year, and I could see him doing the same this year a one of the BACK UPS. Hamilton could be another, or he could possibly be beat out by Toro.

Toro isn't making the team IMO. He doesn't play SS. He's not on the 40 man. No reason to add him.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed, and the hypothetical scenario was a DHam playing 2B vs RHPs, only. We'd likely PH for him, if a lefty came in and we needed a hit. That is not an ideal slot for a player to have on the 26. It is very limited. I get it, but if Bregman is at 3B, and Campbell does not make the roster, I see it as the best option.

DHam can also PR, at times or replace or PH for Romy when a RHP is brought in.

To me, if Bregman is at 3b and there's an opening at 2b, Campbell is getting the first crack at it. 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

To me, if Bregman is at 3b and there's an opening at 2b, Campbell is getting the first crack at it. 

Agreed. It might even be his to lose, this ST'ing.

What's your solution, if Campbell does not make the roster? That was the scenario I proposed. It's not a far-fetched "what if," like some of my other ones.

🤪

 

[Bellhorn04]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Again, the point wasn't about whether they could or will hit a combined .800 as a strict platoon, but instead, what if they did.

I guess I just don't get the point of an impossible hypothetical.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed, and the hypothetical scenario was a DHam playing 2B vs RHPs, only. We'd likely PH for him, if a lefty came in and we needed a hit. That is not an ideal slot for a player to have on the 26. It is very limited. I get it, but if Bregman is at 3B, and Campbell does not make the roster, I see it as the best option.

DHam can also PR, at times or replace or PH for Romy when a RHP is brought in.

I get that pretty much every player has splits that favor them playing against a RH or LH pitcher.

But these guys aren't robots. Many of them don't want to be in and out of the line-up every day and need consistent playing time to be in a rhythm.

It looks good on paper, but won't always play out on the field.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Toro isn't making the team IMO. He doesn't play SS. He's not on the 40 man. No reason to add him.

The Red Sox had 11 players who played 2B for them last year, so you never know, but not being on the 40 makes it unlikely.

[Old Red]

12 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

To me, if Bregman is at 3b and there's an opening at 2b, Campbell is getting the first crack at it. 

Campbell first crack, Griss second crack, and Bregman 3rd option. I don’t think there is a fourth.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Campbell first crack, Griss second crack, and Bregman 3rd option. I don’t think there is a fourth.

Story. It's not hard to imagine he's not physically able to handle the rigors of shortstop -- for whatever reasons (old or new) -- while at the same time, Mayer crushes the next month in FLA.

[Old Red]

53 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I think the numbers show they can't possibly hit .800 or anywhere close to it as a tandem.  Cora probably did his utmost to get them off-hand matchups last year. 

Agree, and that’s why Cora said he makes the lineup out according to the pitching matchups for the revolving door players last year.