Zack Scott explaining the Mookie trade and a lot more (article from Over the Monster)

[Bellhorn04]

SENSATIONAL piece here from Dan Secatore recapping the recent revelations coming from one-time Sox executive Zack Scott.  It all sounds credible and logical.  This is a must-read.

https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/12/5/24314082/red-sox-juan-soto-free-agent-rumors-mookie-betts-dodgers-trade

 

[Duran Is The Man]

yep....Henry f***ed up with Mookie.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

SENSATIONAL piece here from Dan Secatore recapping the recent revelations coming from one-time Sox executive Zack Scott.  It all sounds credible and logical.  This is a must-read.

https://www.overthemonster.com/2024/12/5/24314082/red-sox-juan-soto-free-agent-rumors-mookie-betts-dodgers-trade

 

Good read. A lot is stuff we assumed, anyway, but good to read.

I do wonder what the 2019 trade to the Dodgers, which was "better," actually was.

[mvp 78]

I will say one thing: he seems to be on the Jim Bowden track (former GM who spouts off a lot of stuff because he's no longer in the business) and is trying to make a name for himself. I think his agenda is raising his profile so I'm taking everything with a grain of salt. 

[Bellhorn04]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I will say one thing: he seems to be on the Jim Bowden track (former GM who spouts off a lot of stuff because he's no longer in the business) and is trying to make a name for himself. I think his agenda is raising his profile so I'm taking everything with a grain of salt. 

What he's saying all makes perfect sense though, and it doesn't sound like he's trying to sensationalize anything.

 

[Bellhorn04]

The money quote:

Mookie would have signed with us for maybe even a little less. We didn't get there.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

What he's saying all makes perfect sense though, and it doesn't sound like he's trying to sensationalize anything.

One thing he may be doing intentionally or unintentionally is lying by omission. I'm just saying to take what he says with a grain of salt. Former GM's don't currently have a great track record of reliability. 

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

One thing he may be doing intentionally or unintentionally is lying by omission. I'm just saying to take what he says with a grain of salt. Former GM's don't currently have a great track record of reliability. 

Agreed.  I do note that one of the guys going back and forth with Scott was Lou Merloni, who I believe was the source of the report that the Sox offered $300  million.  And he didn't question Scott on any of the facts/comments about the Sox offers.

If anyone in the present front office thinks Scott isn't right, I would assume we'll hear something about it.

[Bellhorn04]

Also, Scott is not really ripping Henry for anything.  He's saying it was an organizational decision that the Red Sox were not in the business of giving out mega-contracts.

He's also pushing back against the idea the Sox didn't care that much about competing the last few years.  

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Agreed.  I do note that one of the guys going back and forth with Scott was Lou Merloni, who I believe was the source of the report that the Sox offered $300  million.  And he didn't question Scott on any of the facts/comments about the Sox offers.

If anyone in the present front office thinks Scott isn't right, I would assume we'll hear something about it.

My guess is that the Sox will continue to ignore Scott, but he'll never get another MLB job. 

[Bellhorn04]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

My guess is that the Sox will continue to ignore Scott, but he'll never get another MLB job. 

Yeah, Secatore says he figures Scott is piping up now because he knows that. 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Also, Scott is not really ripping Henry for anything.  He's saying it was an organizational decision that the Red Sox were not in the business of giving out mega-contracts.

He's also pushing back against the idea the Sox didn't care that much about competing the last few years.  

He can push back, but it's obvious they weren't REALLY trying to compete. If they were trying, they did a bad job of it. 

[Bellhorn04]

Another interesting item is about Devers.  Many in the org wanted to extend him early but it was nixed because of lux tax concerns at the time.  As Scott says, an example of a short term decision having adverse long term effects.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

37 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Another interesting item is about Devers.  Many in the org wanted to extend him early but it was nixed because of lux tax concerns at the time.  As Scott says, an example of a short term decision having adverse long term effects.

These Sox were never averse to being adverse. 

Now I'll ad a verse... by the Fab Four (not Ro, Marc, Ky and Kristian):

I'm down, I'm really down,

Down on the ground,

How can you laugh when you know I'm down

[notin]

There were stories about Mookie adamantly wanting to test free agency.  These appear to be false.  Or, more likely, leverage from Mookie’s agent.  
 

It’s interesting that Mookie denied ever getting a $300mill offer from Boston.  That quote left many thinking Boston never topped the $200mill offer, which Scott openly refuted.  This creates a unique outcome where, if we assume Merloni was simly rounding up, that his story of a $300mill offer and Betts’ story that no such offer existed are actually both true.  Just that Mookie was paying closer attention to detail (which also makes sense, as Merloni was not as close to the situation)…

[Bellhorn04]

19 minutes ago, notin said:

There were stories about Mookie adamantly wanting to test free agency.  These appear to be false.  Or, more likely, leverage from Mookie’s agent.  
 

It’s interesting that Mookie denied ever getting a $300mill offer from Boston.  That quote left many thinking Boston never topped the $200mill offer, which Scott openly refuted.  This creates a unique outcome where, if we assume Merloni was simly rounding up, that his story of a $300mill offer and Betts’ story that no such offer existed are actually both true.  Just that Mookie was paying closer attention to detail (which also makes sense, as Merloni was not as close to the situation)…

Right.  This is why I'm saying the details all make sense and seem totally credible. 

As Dan Secatore puts it, Mookie was not adamant about testing free agency, but he was adamant about not giving a discount.  He wanted market value.

 

[mvp 78]

19 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Right.  This is why I'm saying the details all make sense and seem totally credible. 

As Dan Secatore puts it, Mookie was not adamant about testing free agency, but he was adamant about not giving a discount.  He wanted market value.

 

A few years later, he's got a below market deal! 

[notin]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

A few years later, he's got a below market deal! 

So that didn’t work out for him….

[mvp 78]

Just now, notin said:

So that didn’t work out for him….

Or the Sox. We both lost. 😩

[Bellhorn04]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

A few years later, he's got a below market deal! 

Mookie forgot to get an opt-out!

[moonslav59]

It can make sense, both ways.

Betts wanted to test our free agency, because he felt he was not being offered "market value" by BOS.

Once Covid hit, the market value became more unknown and speculative. Maybe that is why Betts jumped at the Dodgers offer before hitting free agency.

Events changed the decision-making process.

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It can make sense, both ways.

Betts wanted to test our free agency, because he felt he was not being offered "market value" by BOS.

Once Covid hit, the market value became more unknown and speculative. Maybe that is why Betts jumped at the Dodgers offer before hitting free agency.

Events changed the decision-making process.

We'll never know about the COVID impact.    

I tend to think the fact that the Dodgers were a very attractive destination had something to do with it too.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We'll never know about the COVID impact.    

I tend to think the fact that the Dodgers were a very attractive destination had something to do with it too.

That's the part I'm not so sure about, in the context of Betts preferring LA to BOS, or not.

I have a feeling, he'd have taken the Ddger offer, had we countered with the same, before the trade. If not, he may have taken it, had he stayed with BOS and Covid hit.

These are things nobody really knows- maybe not even Betts.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

That's the part I'm not so sure about, in the context of Betts preferring LA to BOS, or not.

I have a feeling, he'd have taken the Ddger offer, had we countered with the same, before the trade. If not, he may have taken it, had he stayed with BOS and Covid hit.

These are things nobody really knows- maybe not even Betts.

Based on what Scott is saying, if the Sox had offered something like 11 and 330 mill, I think Mookie is still patrolling RF for us.

[notin]

16 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We'll never know about the COVID impact.    

I tend to think the fact that the Dodgers were a very attractive destination had something to do with it too.

At one point, Mookie’s agent reportedly defined market value at $400mill.  We also don’t how much leeway was built into that definition..

[Bellhorn04]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

At one point, Mookie’s agent reportedly defined market value at $400mill.  We also don’t how much leeway was built into that definition..

Maybe Merloni can ask Scott about that rumored counter. 

[moonslav59]

15 minutes ago, notin said:

At one point, Mookie’s agent reportedly defined market value at $400mill.  We also don’t how much leeway was built into that definition..

That would indicate that Covid brought the Betts demand down.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

That would indicate that Covid brought the Betts demand down.

Hard to say.  It seems odd that Betts's agent would counter $290 mill with $400 mill to begin with.  But if he did it may just have been a message that $290 was simply not getting it done and they had to move the line.

[Bellhorn04]

I believe Andrew Friedman is on record that when they traded for Betts they fully intended to make a big effort to extend him.  If COVID didn't enter the picture maybe they just would have had to pay 10% more or something.  There are a lot of possibilities.

But it seems clear now the Red Sox had made their best offer at $290 or whatever, and they were out of the Mookie Betts business after that.

[Duran Is The Man]

53 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

It can make sense, both ways.

Betts wanted to test our free agency, because he felt he was not being offered "market value" by BOS.

Once Covid hit, the market value became more unknown and speculative. Maybe that is why Betts jumped at the Dodgers offer before hitting free agency.

Events changed the decision-making process.

the Dodgers, once again, two steps ahead of everyone else.