Craig Breslow hired as Head Of Baseball Operations

[Duran Is The Man]

A win is a team stat. Your pitcher doesn’t get one of his team didn’t give him any run support.

 

The object of the game is to win. We all get that. But the object isn’t to get a win for the pitcher. W-L for pitchers records are meaningless…

 

absolutely meaningless.....due to MLB's definition of a Win, which i think is absurd. there should be a way to decide which pitcher gets a "win" rather than the ******** definition they have now.

[notin]

absolutely meaningless.....due to MLB's definition of a Win, which i think is absurd. there should be a way to decide which pitcher gets a "win" rather than the ******** definition they have now.

 

Much like their definition of a save (and more important, a blown save), which has gone thru multiple iterations…

[moonslav59]

You should be LYAO. You were the BUTT of all the jokes.

 

A badge of honour.

[moonslav59]

I’d like to bd fly on the wall listening in on Brez & Co.’s talks on who are their top priority targets.

 

The players they are discussing might be way off from our discussions. Some may surprise us, greatly.

[moonslav59]

Much like their definition of a save (and more important, a blown save), which has gone thru multiple iterations…

 

And it’s still as messed up as ever.

 

Both the wins and saves rules are so messed up, and with pitchers not going as deep into games, these days, these middle RPers are getting more and more of the decisions based on when they came into the game and not how well they did.

[mvp 78]

Well, since Jack Morris is a HOFer and really pitched well when it mattered, I do hope that a lot of BBWA guys take that into consideration and give first year candidate BIG GAME JAMES SHIELDS a long hard look when they are filling out their ballots this year!

[notin]

A badge of honour.

 

There’s no “u” in honor! Go back to Canada!

[Bellhorn04]

There’s no “u” in honor! Go back to Canada!

 

We like things bigger in Canada, whether it's taxes, football fields or words.

[notin]

And it’s still as messed up as ever.

 

Both the wins and saves rules are so messed up, and with pitchers not going as deep into games, these days, these middle RPers are getting more and more of the decisions based on when they came into the game and not how well they did.

 

 

The whole save thing looked shoddy when Brasier was credited with a blown save in the fifth inning of a game last year. Do you know how hard it is to get a blown save in the FIFTH INNING? To start, you have to be the third pitcher in the game, which doesn’t happen often in games your team is leading.

 

The opener strategy has really cheapened a lot of these stats. That’s not a criticism of using an opener; teams shouldn’t use their pitchers to accommodate statistics…

[mvp 78]

We like things bigger in Canada, whether it's taxes, football fields or words.

 

Bigger hair. Bigger shoes (for walking on snow). Bigger reams of denim fabric.

[mvp 78]

The whole save thing looked shoddy when Brasier was credited with a blown save in the fifth inning of a game last year. Do you know how hard it is to get a blown save in the FIFTH INNING? To start, you have to be the third pitcher in the game, which doesn’t happen often in games your team is leading.

 

The opener strategy has really cheapened a lot of these stats. That’s not a criticism of using an opener; teams shouldn’t use their pitchers to accommodate statistics…

 

There are only a few stats that truly matter like post count and join date.

[notin]

He can't even pitch.

 

Meanwhile, Mad Dog Russo says stay away from Hader, because he refused to pitch the 8th inning of a big game in September. If only the posters who were never closers could invite him and Kimbrel and Papelbon to a thread to show stats that say there's no difference what inning they pitch or whether their teams are ahead, tied or behind.

 

They just need the right statistical state of mind. Or to schedule their nightly amphetamines one inning later (the players -- I'm talking about the players)...

 

 

It’s entirely possible (by which I mean extremely likely) that pitchers like Papelbon, Kimbrel and Hader do worse in the eighth innings than ninth is because each of them, as the best relievers on their team, are almost exclusively brought in early to face tougher hitters. I bet vintage Kimbrel never came in early to face the #8 hitter on the opposing team. Maybe to face the guy pinch hitting for the pitcher. But probably more often because someone batting 3-4-5 was due up.

 

However, in the ninth innings, they face enough 7-8-9 hitters that the damage done by middle of the order bats gets absorbed into their stats with minimal impact. But with fewer 8th innings, the damage done by the more potent hitters becomes a larger part of the sample.

 

Or you could simply believe that they are just magically better one inning later…

[notin]

There are only a few stats that truly matter like post count and join date.

 

Which one has the larger impact on the Talkies? I assume we have an awards banquet…

[notin]

We like things bigger in Canada, whether it's taxes, football fields or words.

 

And gallons…

[moonslav59]

There’s no “u” in honor! Go back to Canada!

 

I’m texting from my phone, today. I’m not used to it, and I can’t see what I type.

 

I think my spell check is set on British not American.

[mvp 78]

Which one has the larger impact on the Talkies? I assume we have an awards banquet…

 

We will schedule the awards banquet once A700 actually figures out which one of us is his former troll Dutchy.

 

Of course join date is more important, but post count can somewhat make up the difference.

[mvp 78]

I’m texting from my phone, today. I’m not used to it, and I can’t see what I type.

 

I think my spell check is set on British not American.

 

[mvp 78]

It’s entirely possible (by which I mean extremely likely) that pitchers like Papelbon, Kimbrel and Hader do worse in the eighth innings than ninth is because each of them, as the best relievers on their team, are almost exclusively brought in early to face tougher hitters. I bet vintage Kimbrel never came in early to face the #8 hitter on the opposing team. Maybe to face the guy pinch hitting for the pitcher. But probably more often because someone batting 3-4-5 was due up.

 

However, in the ninth innings, they face enough 7-8-9 hitters that the damage done by middle of the order bats gets absorbed into their stats with minimal impact. But with fewer 8th innings, the damage done by the more potent hitters becomes a larger part of the sample.

 

Or you could simply believe that they are just magically better one inning later…

 

I think people are just creatures of habit. Once you take someone out of their routine, they won't be as good as what they normally do.

[moonslav59]

 

I’m in Disney World for 5 days. BD present for the wife and daughter.

 

(Not used to so much walking!)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It’s entirely possible (by which I mean extremely likely) that pitchers like Papelbon, Kimbrel and Hader do worse in the eighth innings than ninth is because each of them, as the best relievers on their team, are almost exclusively brought in early to face tougher hitters. I bet vintage Kimbrel never came in early to face the #8 hitter on the opposing team. Maybe to face the guy pinch hitting for the pitcher. But probably more often because someone batting 3-4-5 was due up.

 

However, in the ninth innings, they face enough 7-8-9 hitters that the damage done by middle of the order bats gets absorbed into their stats with minimal impact. But with fewer 8th innings, the damage done by the more potent hitters becomes a larger part of the sample.

 

Or you could simply believe that they are just magically better one inning later…

 

... is it really impossible to imagine that they might think their magic is better in the 9th -- when cheering fans are on their feet, anticipating the almighty save (SAVES = $$$), with the game-ending, fist-pumping adrenaline/RedBull/BlackBeauty rush of happy teammates swarming the mound in celebratory climax?

[notin]

... is it really impossible to imagine that they might think their magic is better in the 9th -- when cheering fans are on their feet, anticipating the almighty save (SAVES = $$$), with the game-ending, fist-pumping adrenaline/RedBull/BlackBeauty rush of happy teammates swarming the mound in celebratory climax?

 

 

Or… ya know … facing worse hitters. At some point that has to be a factor.

 

If the “fan factor” is big part of the equation, do we need a closer for road games? Don’t home fans also cheer when an 8th inning rally is getting snuffed out?

Edited November 22, 2023 by notin

[mvp 78]

I’m in Disney World for 5 days. BD present for the wife and daughter.

 

(Not used to so much walking!)

 

My only recommendation is to go to the Liberty Tree Tavern and have the Ooey Gooey Toffee Cake.

[dgalehouse]

When a pitcher got credit for a win that they didn't deserve , they were said to have " vultured " it. Don't hear that much any more. I would still say , as a rule, the better pitchers have better won/loss records than the lesser ones. I realize there are exceptions to this. But saying that the won/loss record is meaningless is a gross exaggeration.

[dgalehouse]

Maybe, we should outbid everyone for ERod. The team won a ton when he started!

 

He even got the Tigers to go 14-12, in his starts, this year.

 

They went 64-72 in his non start games.

 

Well, if I was his agent , I certainly would mention that.

[notin]

When a pitcher got credit for a win that they didn't deserve , they were said to have " vultured " it. Don't hear that much any more. I would still say , as a rule, the better pitchers have better won/loss records than the lesser ones. I realize there are exceptions to this. But saying that the won/loss record is meaningless is a gross exaggeration.

 

But saying good pitchers have better W-L records becomes circular logic if you’re saying they’re good because of their W-L records. And plenty of good pitchers have bad W-L records. What about them?

[dgalehouse]

But saying good pitchers have better W-L records becomes circular logic if you’re saying they’re good because of their W-L records. And plenty of good pitchers have bad W-L records. What about them?

 

I said , AS A RULE, the better pitchers will have better records. Are you saying that is not so ?

[notin]

I said , AS A RULE, the better pitchers will have better records. Are you saying that is not so ?

 

I’d say yes.

 

Poor timing to ask this after a season in which fungible starter Kyle Gibson (15-9) had a better record Cy Young winner Blake Snell (14-9).

 

I could find samples like this all day long…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Or… ya know … facing worse hitters. At some point that has to be a factor.

 

If the “fan factor” is big part of the equation, do we need a closer for road games? Don’t home fans also cheer when an 8th inning rally is getting snuffed out?

 

Well, the old Boston needed a closer to end road games, when most fans still hanging around in the 9th were Red Sox fans (except in the Bronx, where they're rabid zombies).

 

But lately, fickle Fenway has been invaded by tour buses of opposing fans on road trips. So to counter all that negativity, the Sox have had less closing situations the past few years.

[Bellhorn04]

I said , AS A RULE, the better pitchers will have better records. Are you saying that is not so ?

 

There is some correlation, but the correlation has gotten smaller and smaller all the time, to the point it's almost gone.

[moonslav59]

There is some correlation, but the correlation has gotten smaller and smaller all the time, to the point it's almost gone.

 

Yes, and the point is other stats show who are better pitchers than their record