A Realistic View at 2024: Part I

[Old Red]

Tristan Casas is 24 years old. Big, strong and healthy. He plays the least taxing and demanding position on the field. Exactly how many days off is he going to need ? Surely, someone on the roster is versatile enough to fill in on those few occasions. This should be the least of the Red Sox concerns.

 

Agree. After 2 straight years of a losing last place in a Div team, and one of the big worries on here on who’s going to be the emergency 1B. 🙈🤭

[dgalehouse]

Agree. After 2 straight years of a losing last place in a Div team, and one of the big worries on here on who’s going to be the emergency 1B.

 

And they have spring training to give guys practice at first base.

[notin]

Agree. After 2 straight years of a losing last place in a Div team, and one of the big worries on here on who’s going to be the emergency 1B.

 

It’s not one of the big worries. It’s a topic that get garnered a few posts discussed among a few people who simply like talking baseball. No need to call it out like you have to discredit anyone not hitting the teams top priorities in their discussion. Not sure if you’re aware of this or not - but what we r talk about doesn’t really matter. We could spend 3 days discussing whether or not to retire bat boy uniform numbers and it wouldn’t matter. The Sox don’t monitor this forum. In fact, when Talking Heads talk about all the internet unrest among Sox fans, they’re not talking about this forum.

 

However if you feel the need to control the dialogue, then post a list of pre-approved topics and the times during which we are permitted to discuss them…

[Bellhorn04]

It’s not one of the big worries. It’s a topic that get garnered a few posts discussed among a few people who simply like talking baseball. No need to call it out like you have to discredit anyone not hitting the teams top priorities in their discussion. Not sure if you’re aware of this or not - but what we r talk about doesn’t really matter. We could spend 3 days discussing whether or not to retire bat boy uniform numbers and it wouldn’t matter. The Sox don’t monitor this forum. In fact, when Talking Heads talk about all the internet unrest among Sox fans, they’re not talking about this forum.

 

They're not talking about this forum, but we're a fairly representative bunch of Sox fans here. We've got a good cross section of Old Schoolers, Nerds and Average Fans.

[dgalehouse]

It’s not one of the big worries. It’s a topic that get garnered a few posts discussed among a few people who simply like talking baseball. No need to call it out like you have to discredit anyone not hitting the teams top priorities in their discussion. Not sure if you’re aware of this or not - but what we r talk about doesn’t really matter. We could spend 3 days discussing whether or not to retire bat boy uniform numbers and it wouldn’t matter. The Sox don’t monitor this forum. In fact, when Talking Heads talk about all the internet unrest among Sox fans, they’re not talking about this forum.

 

However if you feel the need to control the dialogue, then post a list of pre-approved topics and the times during which we are permitted to discuss them…

 

The Lecturer.

[Old Red]

The Lecturer.

 

And not very good at that. No one took his class.Quantity, but NO QUALITY. Boo hoo, boo hoo.

Edited February 1, 2024 by Old Red

[moonslav59]

Tristan Casas is 24 years old. Big, strong and healthy. He plays the least taxing and demanding position on the field. Exactly how many days off is he going to need ? Surely, someone on the roster is versatile enough to fill in on those few occasions. This should be the least of the Red Sox concerns.

 

It's not a big concern, at all.

 

If it were up to me, he'd play 1B 159-162 games. Cora is not likely to change his ways on resting everyone 8-10 games. (I hope he does.)

 

There is not much else to talk about, but it is a curiosity, as of now.

[moonslav59]

It's crazy to look at the 40 man roster seniority ranking (date added to the 40, not time in the Sox system.)

 

Devers, of course, is #1 (added 7/24/17 right before his call-up)

 

Bobby Dee is #2 (added 11/20/19 to avoid Rule 5.)

 

#3 is Nick Pivetta! WOW! (Added 8/21/20)

 

Houck, Mata, Wong and Whitlock were added after Sept 15, 2020, and Duran is #8 by being added in the summer or 2021.

 

That's some serious roster turn-over.

 

Here was the 40 Man Roster to end 2019:

 

The 12 Man Foundation:

Betts, Bogey, JD, Devers, JBJ, Beni, Vaz

Eovaldi, Price, ERod, Porcello (Sale on IL)

 

The Supporting 8

Holt, Moreland, Leon, Marco Hernandez

Workman, Barnes, Josh Taylor, Walden

 

The 20 that was in serious need or upgrading, going into 2020 (Some may have forgotten just how bad the bottom of our 40 was, when DD departed.):

Brian Johnson (5th SP)

Ryan Brasier

H Hembree

Marco Hernandez

Sam Travis

DHern

Cashner

H Velazquez

Ryan Weber

Colten Brewer

Josh A Smith, Lakins, Chacin, Shawaryn, Poyner, T Kelley, C Owings, Gorkys Hernandez

 

The AAA team was basically this:

Kyle Hart

Daniel McGrath

Teddy Stankiewicz

Tanner Houck

Domingo Tapia

Jenrry Mejia

Austin Maddox

Zach Putnam

Erasmo Ramirez

Kevin Lenik

C: Oscar Hernandez, Jake Romanski

1B: Ockimey & Witte

2B: Deiner Lopez

3B: Dalbec

SS: CJ Chatham/ T-W Lin

LF: Sturgeon/Brentz

CF: Matheny

RF: Rusney

DH: Chavis

 

Other top prospects below AAA:

3. Casas

6. Groome

7. A Flores (RIP)

9. Feltman

10. Mata

11. Howlett

12. Decker

13. Duran

14. D Diaz

16. Jimenez

17. Northcut

18. Scherff

19. D reyes

20. Schellenger

 

I wasn't kidding, when I said Bloom had about 20-22 slots to upgrade before 2020 and a tiny winter budget to do it. (On top of that, we lost Betts, Price and Porcello to trades and free agency and ERod & Sale to injury or COVID.)

 

But, of course, context is just excuse-making.

[Old Red]

It's crazy to look at the 40 man roster seniority ranking (date added to the 40, not time in the Sox system.)

 

Devers, of course, is #1 (added 7/24/17 right before his call-up)

 

Bobby Dee is #2 (added 11/20/19 to avoid Rule 5.)

 

#3 is Nick Pivetta! WOW! (Added 8/21/20)

 

Houck, Mata, Wong and Whitlock were added after Sept 15, 2020, and Duran is #8 by being added in the summer or 2021.

 

That's some serious roster turn-over.

 

Here was the 40 Man Roster to end 2019:

 

The 12 Man Foundation:

Betts, Bogey, JD, Devers, JBJ, Beni, Vaz

Eovaldi, Price, ERod, Porcello (Sale on IL)

 

The Supporting 8

Holt, Moreland, Leon, Marco Hernandez

Workman, Barnes, Josh Taylor, Walden

 

The 20 that was in serious need or upgrading, going into 2020 (Some may have forgotten just how bad the bottom of our 40 was, when DD departed.):

Brian Johnson (5th SP)

Ryan Brasier

H Hembree

Marco Hernandez

Sam Travis

DHern

Cashner

H Velazquez

Ryan Weber

Colten Brewer

Josh A Smith, Lakins, Chacin, Shawaryn, Poyner, T Kelley, C Owings, Gorkys Hernandez

 

The AAA team was basically this:

Kyle Hart

Daniel McGrath

Teddy Stankiewicz

Tanner Houck

Domingo Tapia

Jenrry Mejia

Austin Maddox

Zach Putnam

Erasmo Ramirez

Kevin Lenik

C: Oscar Hernandez, Jake Romanski

1B: Ockimey & Witte

2B: Deiner Lopez

3B: Dalbec

SS: CJ Chatham/ T-W Lin

LF: Sturgeon/Brentz

CF: Matheny

RF: Rusney

DH: Chavis

 

Other top prospects below AAA:

3. Casas

6. Groome

7. A Flores (RIP)

9. Feltman

10. Mata

11. Howlett

12. Decker

13. Duran

14. D Diaz

16. Jimenez

17. Northcut

18. Scherff

19. D reyes

20. Schellenger

 

I wasn't kidding, when I said Bloom had about 20-22 slots to upgrade before 2020 and a tiny winter budget to do it. (On top of that, we lost Betts, Price and Porcello to trades and free agency and ERod & Sale to injury or COVID.)

 

But, of course, context is just excuse-making.

Coming from the #1 Bloom guy. YES! You’ve told this same sob story enough times for 6 broken records.

[dgalehouse]

Coming from the #1 Bloom guy. YES! You’ve told this same sob story enough times for 6 broken records.

 

The Legion of Bloom lives on.

[moonslav59]

The Legion of Bloom lives on.

 

In your head.

[Old Red]

In your head.

 

NO! Unfortunately Bloom is still in your head, and you’re STILL making excuses for him.🙈🤭

[Old Red]

The Legion of Bloom lives on.

 

It’s just so hard to let him go for his #1 supporter, and he will continue to live on, and on.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's crazy to look at the 40 man roster seniority ranking (date added to the 40, not time in the Sox system.)

 

Devers, of course, is #1 (added 7/24/17 right before his call-up)

 

Bobby Dee is #2 (added 11/20/19 to avoid Rule 5.)

 

#3 is Nick Pivetta! WOW! (Added 8/21/20)

 

Houck, Mata, Wong and Whitlock were added after Sept 15, 2020, and Duran is #8 by being added in the summer or 2021.

 

That's some serious roster turn-over.

 

 

Can't you just see all 425 Assistants to the Vice Presidents in a front office meeting nodding, saying, "Now THAT'S the roster continuity we know our fans can root for -- just think of all the season tickets we can sell to loyal rooters of clean jerseys with no faces in them!"

 

At least Bloom wouldn't have swapped any prospects to nab Romy Gonzalez, the Red Sox' latest prize offseason acquisition. Gonzalez, recently cut by the 101-loss White Sox, has been amazingly consistent: in three seasons in MLB, he has a negative WAR every year. He can't hit (career .222 BA, .600 OPS, 36% K-rate) and can't field (career negative 0.4 dWAR)... but he did go to the University of Miami, same as Alex Cora (rut roh).

 

The Romdawg's career WBR is -0.8...

[Bellhorn04]

It's crazy to look at the 40 man roster seniority ranking (date added to the 40, not time in the Sox system.)

 

Devers, of course, is #1 (added 7/24/17 right before his call-up)

 

Bobby Dee is #2 (added 11/20/19 to avoid Rule 5.)

 

#3 is Nick Pivetta! WOW! (Added 8/21/20)

 

Houck, Mata, Wong and Whitlock were added after Sept 15, 2020, and Duran is #8 by being added in the summer or 2021.

 

That's some serious roster turn-over.

 

Here was the 40 Man Roster to end 2019:

 

The 12 Man Foundation:

Betts, Bogey, JD, Devers, JBJ, Beni, Vaz

Eovaldi, Price, ERod, Porcello (Sale on IL)

 

The Supporting 8

Holt, Moreland, Leon, Marco Hernandez

Workman, Barnes, Josh Taylor, Walden

 

The 20 that was in serious need or upgrading, going into 2020 (Some may have forgotten just how bad the bottom of our 40 was, when DD departed.):

Brian Johnson (5th SP)

Ryan Brasier

H Hembree

Marco Hernandez

Sam Travis

DHern

Cashner

H Velazquez

Ryan Weber

Colten Brewer

Josh A Smith, Lakins, Chacin, Shawaryn, Poyner, T Kelley, C Owings, Gorkys Hernandez

 

The AAA team was basically this:

Kyle Hart

Daniel McGrath

Teddy Stankiewicz

Tanner Houck

Domingo Tapia

Jenrry Mejia

Austin Maddox

Zach Putnam

Erasmo Ramirez

Kevin Lenik

C: Oscar Hernandez, Jake Romanski

1B: Ockimey & Witte

2B: Deiner Lopez

3B: Dalbec

SS: CJ Chatham/ T-W Lin

LF: Sturgeon/Brentz

CF: Matheny

RF: Rusney

DH: Chavis

 

Other top prospects below AAA:

3. Casas

6. Groome

7. A Flores (RIP)

9. Feltman

10. Mata

11. Howlett

12. Decker

13. Duran

14. D Diaz

16. Jimenez

17. Northcut

18. Scherff

19. D reyes

20. Schellenger

 

I wasn't kidding, when I said Bloom had about 20-22 slots to upgrade before 2020 and a tiny winter budget to do it. (On top of that, we lost Betts, Price and Porcello to trades and free agency and ERod & Sale to injury or COVID.)

 

But, of course, context is just excuse-making.

 

But the results in 2022-23 were 2 78 win seasons. It's hard to get excited about the results.

[moonslav59]

Can't you just see all 425 Assistants to the Vice Presidents in a front office meeting nodding, saying, "Now THAT'S the roster continuity we know our fans can root for -- just think of all the season tickets we can sell to loyal rooters of clean jerseys with no faces in them!"

 

Posters are longing for the days of Betts & Bogey and the rest, and no doubt, we all wish they were still here. That foundation of 8 players was awesome.

 

It's hard to imagine that core winning, however, with that bottom 20 on the 40, and even less dollars to spend on improving it, as keeping Betts, Price, Porcello (or the like,) Bogey, JD, ERod some of the supporting cast was impossible under the budget circumstances.

 

Plus, keeping JBJ, Price, Porcello, Moreland, Holt and several others would not have helped us win after 2019, anyway.

 

A big change to the 40 man roster was inevitable, but man o man, it still looks so shocking: Devers & Dalbec is it.

 

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's not always about winning, and plus, there are affordable tickets for students.

 

They don't come to follow the players, anyway -- just to party.

[mvp 78]

I mentioned handing Ref a 1Bman's mitt, a while ago. It might make some sense. Our OF is getting crowded and his split wonder slipped some, last season.

 

He's played it before.

[mvp 78]

Tristan Casas is 24 years old. Big, strong and healthy. He plays the least taxing and demanding position on the field. Exactly how many days off is he going to need ? Surely, someone on the roster is versatile enough to fill in on those few occasions. This should be the least of the Red Sox concerns.

 

You'd think they'd want someone at the top of the rotation, but the Sox couldn't possibly afford to do that either via trade or FA!!!!

[mvp 78]

It’s not one of the big worries. It’s a topic that get garnered a few posts discussed among a few people who simply like talking baseball. No need to call it out like you have to discredit anyone not hitting the teams top priorities in their discussion. Not sure if you’re aware of this or not - but what we r talk about doesn’t really matter. We could spend 3 days discussing whether or not to retire bat boy uniform numbers and it wouldn’t matter. The Sox don’t monitor this forum. In fact, when Talking Heads talk about all the internet unrest among Sox fans, they’re not talking about this forum.

 

However if you feel the need to control the dialogue, then post a list of pre-approved topics and the times during which we are permitted to discuss them…

 

I mean, the Sox haven't given us anything else to talk about.

[mvp 78]

It's crazy to look at the 40 man roster seniority ranking (date added to the 40, not time in the Sox system.)

 

Devers, of course, is #1 (added 7/24/17 right before his call-up)

 

Bobby Dee is #2 (added 11/20/19 to avoid Rule 5.)

 

#3 is Nick Pivetta! WOW! (Added 8/21/20)

 

Houck, Mata, Wong and Whitlock were added after Sept 15, 2020, and Duran is #8 by being added in the summer or 2021.

 

That's some serious roster turn-over.

 

Here was the 40 Man Roster to end 2019:

 

The 12 Man Foundation:

Betts, Bogey, JD, Devers, JBJ, Beni, Vaz

Eovaldi, Price, ERod, Porcello (Sale on IL)

 

The Supporting 8

Holt, Moreland, Leon, Marco Hernandez

Workman, Barnes, Josh Taylor, Walden

 

The 20 that was in serious need or upgrading, going into 2020 (Some may have forgotten just how bad the bottom of our 40 was, when DD departed.):

Brian Johnson (5th SP)

Ryan Brasier

H Hembree

Marco Hernandez

Sam Travis

DHern

Cashner

H Velazquez

Ryan Weber

Colten Brewer

Josh A Smith, Lakins, Chacin, Shawaryn, Poyner, T Kelley, C Owings, Gorkys Hernandez

 

The AAA team was basically this:

Kyle Hart

Daniel McGrath

Teddy Stankiewicz

Tanner Houck

Domingo Tapia

Jenrry Mejia

Austin Maddox

Zach Putnam

Erasmo Ramirez

Kevin Lenik

C: Oscar Hernandez, Jake Romanski

1B: Ockimey & Witte

2B: Deiner Lopez

3B: Dalbec

SS: CJ Chatham/ T-W Lin

LF: Sturgeon/Brentz

CF: Matheny

RF: Rusney

DH: Chavis

 

Other top prospects below AAA:

3. Casas

6. Groome

7. A Flores (RIP)

9. Feltman

10. Mata

11. Howlett

12. Decker

13. Duran

14. D Diaz

16. Jimenez

17. Northcut

18. Scherff

19. D reyes

20. Schellenger

 

I wasn't kidding, when I said Bloom had about 20-22 slots to upgrade before 2020 and a tiny winter budget to do it. (On top of that, we lost Betts, Price and Porcello to trades and free agency and ERod & Sale to injury or COVID.)

 

But, of course, context is just excuse-making.

The turnover has nothing to do with Bloom. It has everything to do with ownership not wanting to spend to keep people around.

 

One of Mookie or Xander should still be here.

 

Benintendi is an ok MLB player. It's fine that he's gone as he's a little overrated.

 

Vazquez is too expensive for what he is, so fine.

 

JD has been pretty good since he left. Seems like maybe a missed opportunity to keep him around because they don't want a fulltime DH?

 

ERod has been worth his contract everywhere he went. Sox should have re-signed him.

 

The TEX Eovaldi deal was really reasonable. The Sox rotation desperately needs a guy like him too.

 

If the Sox rotation was Giolito/ERod/Eovaldi/Bello/Pivetta, I think we'd feel a little better about their chances this year.

 

Brasier sucked at the end, but went to the Dodgers to develop a cutter and became a lockdown reliever. That's more of a mark on the Sox pitching dept than anything else...

 

So there's about 5 other guys that could still be here if not for Sox incompetence.

[Old Red]

I mean, the Sox haven't given us anything else to talk about.

 

I don’t know, but full throttle has taken up quite a bit of time not to mention how spend thrifty JH has become.

[mvp 78]

But the results in 2022-23 were 2 78 win seasons. It's hard to get excited about the results.

 

Bloom just needed one more offseason to dawdle and he could have figured it out!

[mvp 78]

Posters are longing for the days of Betts & Bogey and the rest, and no doubt, we all wish they were still here. That foundation of 8 players was awesome.

 

It's hard to imagine that core winning, however, with that bottom 20 on the 40, and even less dollars to spend on improving it, as keeping Betts, Price, Porcello (or the like,) Bogey, JD, ERod some of the supporting cast was impossible under the budget circumstances.

 

Plus, keeping JBJ, Price, Porcello, Moreland, Holt and several others would not have helped us win after 2019, anyway.

 

A big change to the 40 man roster was inevitable, but man o man, it still looks so shocking: Devers & Dalbec is it.

 

 

 

 

Gee, how do teams like the Dodgers keep doing it in impossible budget circumstances?!?!?!?

[moonslav59]

Gee, how do teams like the Dodgers keep doing it in impossible budget circumstances?!?!?!?

 

Hardly "impossible."

[mvp 78]

Hardly "impossible."

 

The Red Sox didn't have an impossible budget situation either..........................

[Old Red]

The Red Sox didn't have an impossible budget situation either..........................

 

Not according to JH.

[moonslav59]

The turnover has nothing to do with Bloom. It has everything to do with ownership not wanting to spend to keep people around.

 

One of Mookie or Xander should still be here.

 

Benintendi is an ok MLB player. It's fine that he's gone as he's a little overrated.

 

Vazquez is too expensive for what he is, so fine.

 

JD has been pretty good since he left. Seems like maybe a missed opportunity to keep him around because they don't want a fulltime DH?

 

ERod has been worth his contract everywhere he went. Sox should have re-signed him.

 

The TEX Eovaldi deal was really reasonable. The Sox rotation desperately needs a guy like him too.

 

If the Sox rotation was Giolito/ERod/Eovaldi/Bello/Pivetta, I think we'd feel a little better about their chances this year.

 

Brasier sucked at the end, but went to the Dodgers to develop a cutter and became a lockdown reliever. That's more of a mark on the Sox pitching dept than anything else...

 

So there's about 5 other guys that could still be here if not for Sox incompetence.

 

I totally agree.

 

The budget was the biggest constraint, and if we somehow found a way to keep all 5, or even just Betts, Bogey and Nate, but still had the same budgets, the rest of the 40 man roster would have looked like crap, or worse.

 

While I realize we need some stars to win, we also would have needed a strong base and feeding pattern than this:

 

The 20 that was in serious need or upgrading, going into 2020 (Some may have forgotten just how bad the bottom of our 40 was, when DD departed.):

Brian Johnson (5th SP)

Ryan Brasier

H Hembree

Marco Hernandez

Sam Travis

DHern

Cashner

H Velazquez

Ryan Weber

Colten Brewer

Josh A Smith, Lakins, Chacin, Shawaryn, Poyner, T Kelley, C Owings, Gorkys Hernandez

 

The AAA team was basically this:

Kyle Hart

Daniel McGrath

Teddy Stankiewicz

Tanner Houck

Domingo Tapia

Jenrry Mejia

Austin Maddox

Zach Putnam

Erasmo Ramirez

Kevin Lenik

C: Oscar Hernandez, Jake Romanski

1B: Ockimey & Witte

2B: Deiner Lopez

3B: Dalbec

SS: CJ Chatham/ T-W Lin

LF: Sturgeon/Brentz

CF: Matheny

RF: Rusney

DH: Chavis

 

Other top prospects below AAA:

3. Casas

6. Groome

7. A Flores (RIP)

9. Feltman

10. Mata

11. Howlett

12. Decker

13. Duran

14. D Diaz

16. Jimenez

17. Northcut

18. Scherff

19. D reyes

20. Schellenger

 

Call it a roster full or mediocrity, and I won't disagree, but our 21-40 and farm, right now, look much better than the 21-40 + farm did at the end of 2019.

 

We have more to do to become a consistent winner, for sure, but I like our depth better than before.

[mvp 78]

The budget was the biggest constraint

 

A self imposed constraint. Thanks, John!

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox didn't have an impossible budget situation either..........................

 

They did not "have to," but they did. In one breath you blsme JH not Bloom, then say there was no "impossible" budget situation (implied for building the roster back up.].

 

After 2019, we lost Betts, Price and Porcello from the budget and the roster and spent pennies on the dollar.

 

The winter spending budget before 2021 did not come close to replacing those lost players, plus the ones lost after 2020.

 

It seemed impossible, to me, although the 2021 team somehow did pretty well.

 

With the Story signing, the budget situation was "not impossible," agreed.

 

The expenditures for 2020:

$11M for JBJ (avoided last arb)

Other arbs: ERod, Barnes...

 

$6M Perez

$4.2M Pillar

$2.8M Peraza

$1.5M Lucroy

All the rest were under $1M

 

Obviously, the budget was a major obstacle to building that team to respectability.

 

We traded away Moreland, Pillar and others, and let JBJ walk after '20. Here was our budget for '21:

$10M Richards

$8M Ottavino (trade)

$7M x 2 Kike

$5M Perez

$3M Renfroe

$3M Marwin

(All others were below $1M)

 

2022 looked like a repeat, until the March signing of Story.