Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

Why are you only focused on the 3 team comment with Monty. That was just something I mentioned along with Monty being not much of a winner. Once again i wouldn’t compare Monty to Scherzer like they are close to equals, because they are not unless you only want to talk about how many teams they have been on the last 3 years.

 

… Which is exactly the aspect we have been talking about with them. And the only one, despite your repeated attempts to discredit the notion by expanding it…

[notin]

Bassitt 43 wins the last three years. I’ll take it, and one of those years were with the A’s.The rest of his stats aren’t that bad either. I’ll take him over Monty. Oops he’s not available, but Monty is.

 

 

The A’s won 86 games that year. Do not confuse them with the 2023 version.

 

Bassitt is basically the older version of Montgomery. He makes about $21mill AAV, and if he wasn’t 33 when Toronto signed him, he might have been able to get a 5 year $100mill deal. Maybe. Of course he lacks Montgomery’s post season success, which apparently inflates his value even more for some reason.

 

Montgomery, being 2 years younger and with said postseason success, is likely to get at least 5 years $100mill. That’s the floor. And also the floor I get off at…

[notin]

Bleacher Report lists the Sox as #3 on their matches for a Dylan Cease trade.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10096703-the-top-10-landing-spots-for-white-sox-sp-dylan-cease-amid-mlb-trade-rumors

 

 

They suggest Rafaela and Bleis for Cease, which is a trade I would make twice and pinch myself in between.

 

Of course, they suggest the Reds as the #1 destination, with India and Spencer Steer heading to Chicago, which feels like a stupid trade for the White Sox. So now I’m questioning the Rafaela/Bleis thing…

[Old Red]

… Which is exactly the aspect we have been talking about with them. And the only one, despite your repeated attempts to discredit the notion by expanding it…

 

The first thing I mentioned was Monty’s career 38-34 record. The second thing was being on 3 teams in 3 years. You are trying to say that I’m saying any pitcher who was on 3 teams in 3 yrs should be called a journeyman,and you brought up Lester, and Scherzer, who i wouldn’t call journeyman at all, and not even close in comparison. You can fit it to your narrative all you want, but it doesn’t change mine.

[Old Red]

Bleacher Report lists the Sox as #3 on their matches for a Dylan Cease trade.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10096703-the-top-10-landing-spots-for-white-sox-sp-dylan-cease-amid-mlb-trade-rumors

 

 

They suggest Rafaela and Bleis for Cease, which is a trade I would make twice and pinch myself in between.

 

Of course, they suggest the Reds as the #1 destination, with India and Spencer Steer heading to Chicago, which feels like a stupid trade for the White Sox. So now I’m questioning the Rafaela/Bleis thing…

 

Does the worthless BTV accept that trade for the Red Sox?

[Old Red]

The A’s won 86 games that year. Do not confuse them with the 2023 version.

 

Bassitt is basically the older version of Montgomery. He makes about $21mill AAV, and if he wasn’t 33 when Toronto signed him, he might have been able to get a 5 year $100mill deal. Maybe. Of course he lacks Montgomery’s post season success, which apparently inflates his value even more for some reason.

 

Montgomery, being 2 years younger and with said postseason success, is likely to get at least 5 years $100mill. That’s the floor. And also the floor I get off at…

You’re right that I forgot the A’s had a pretty good team in 2021, and won 86 games.

[harmony]

Urias didn’t look great for the Sox last season. He’s not good defensively. If he’s not raking, he’s useless.

From FanGraphs columnist Leo Morgenstern:

The Mariners are taking on the uncertainty in this trade, but ultimately, it’s the Red Sox who are taking a bigger risk. Boston, a team with no clear answer at second base, gave up a young, cost-controlled infielder who was a two-plus win player as recently as 2022. If Urías bounces back with the Mariners, Breslow could end up looking foolish in his very first trade as CBO.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mariners-scoop-up-luis-urias-for-another-fresh-start/

[notin]

Does the worthless BTV accept that trade for the Red Sox?

 

BTV, far from worthless, does accept the Red Sox trade.

 

The Reds trade comes up far short, as anticipated. Again, most actual trades work on this model. That means it’s actually realistic.

 

Whether or not the trades any random individual dreams up happen doesn’t change this. Neither did whether or not you like it or care about it…

[Old Red]

BTV, far from worthless, does accept the Red Sox trade.

 

The Reds trade comes up far short, as anticipated. Again, most actual trades work on this model. That means it’s actually realistic.

 

Whether or not the trades any random individual dreams up happen doesn’t change this. Neither did whether or not you like it or care about it…

 

That’s been my point right along. BTV is worthless, or meaningless to me along with analytics just like eye test, W-L record, or BA is to some of you. It works both ways. See we agree again.

[moonslav59]

NO ONE EVER SAID W-L are everything. NO ONE at all. You on the other hand are trying to say W-L are meaningless. Just, because they are to you in no way makes it that way, and never will.

And yes that 39-14 record would be what most people not on here would point out.

 

Yes, that’s why I added your point that W-Ls are NOT everything. You said it is important but not everything.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bleacher Report lists the Sox as #3 on their matches for a Dylan Cease trade.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10096703-the-top-10-landing-spots-for-white-sox-sp-dylan-cease-amid-mlb-trade-rumors

 

 

They suggest Rafaela and Bleis for Cease, which is a trade I would make twice and pinch myself in between.

 

Of course, they suggest the Reds as the #1 destination, with India and Spencer Steer heading to Chicago, which feels like a stupid trade for the White Sox. So now I’m questioning the Rafaela/Bleis thing…

 

Glad you're reassessing. What is the Windy City word on why Dylan ceased to be as good in '23?

 

And no way someone so much smarter than me like Breslow will giveaway the one guy in the Red Sox entire organization described as a 5-tool player, especially to another GM trying to out-clever him by buying low on a rehabbing future star. Brez really doesn't want to known as the Bloom replacement whose first big deal was trading the next Mookie...

 

The current Red Sox suck. While maybe not a bottom-five team in the majors, they're just blah -- mediocre in so many areas. Teel and Mayer may be keys to solidifying future relevancy, but Bleis could be the guy to electrify the fanbase.

[moonslav59]

That’s been my point right along. BTV is worthless, or meaningless to me along with analytics just like eye test, W-L record, or BA is to some of you. It works both ways. See we agree again.

 

I should scream in caps like you: nobody says W-Ls or BA are useless.

 

Just not as meaningful as you do. Your eye test, which translates to looking at box scores is the closest to meaningless of the 3 listed.

[moonslav59]

Glad you're reassessing. What is the Windy City word on why Dylan ceased to be as good in '23?

 

And no way someone so much smarter than me like Breslow will giveaway the one guy in the Red Sox entire organization described as a 5-tool player, especially to another GM trying to out-clever him by buying low on a rehabbing future star. Brez really doesn't want to known as the Bloom replacement whose first big deal was trading the next Mookie...

 

The current Red Sox suck. While maybe not a bottom-five team in the majors, they're just blah -- mediocre in so many areas. Teel and Mayer may be keys to solidifying future relevancy, but Bleis could be the guy to electrify the fanbase.

 

No love for Anthony, who has shown more success thanBleis?

[Old Red]

I should scream in caps like you: nobody says W-Ls or BA are useless.

 

Just not as meaningful as you do. Your eye test, which translates to looking at box scores is the closest to meaningless of the 3 listed.

 

Many on here have said stats like BA, and W-L records are meaningless, and that’s a fact. I have NEVER said analytics are meaningless only that I don’t need them, and it’s fine for people that do.

The eye test doesn’t just come from box scores. I didn’t watch as many games as you did this past year, but watched enough to know what was going on like the Red Sox were far from a 87 win team that obviously you assumed from watching everyday.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No love for Anthony, who has shown more success thanBleis?

 

I think Anthony is going to be a lefty Tony Conigliaro, who became the youngest American Leaguer to hit 100 home runs (104 by age 22, before his career was altered by beaning in '67).

 

Actually, the AL record for most HRs by a left-handed batter through age 22 is still held by Ted Williams, with 91...

[moonslav59]

Many on here have said stats like BA, and W-L records are meaningless, and that’s a fact. I have NEVER said analytics are meaningless only that I don’t need them, and it’s fine for people that do.

The eye test doesn’t just come from box scores. I didn’t watch as many games as you did this past year, but watched enough to know what was going on like the Red Sox were far from a 87 win team that obviously you assumed from watching everyday.

 

Provide links… many of them.

[Old Red]

Provide links… many of them.

 

No I’d rather play with toys like BTV.

[notin]

That’s been my point right along. BTV is worthless, or meaningless to me along with analytics just like eye test, W-L record, or BA is to some of you. It works both ways. See we agree again.

 

Actually the Eye Test is fine when done right. For instance, it’s worthless when only done on highlights. It’s very limited when watching televised games, and it’s not useful for comparisons between different teams. And too many seem to fall into the “I saw that guy make an error once” category.

 

Also, fun fact. Eye Test is the choice of liars. It’s amazing how many people will say “I watch every game and he doesn’t get good jumps on flyballs.” Huh? What TV feed are you watching that shows the outfielders’ jumps?

 

 

BTV on the other hand, is nice. Trade proposals have been around since 1870. BTV gives a good argument against all of the “let’s trade lots of garbage for an All Star” proposals that get dropped everywhere. Or even worse yet, the “let’s trade all our garbage plus one half-decent prospect for an All Star.” It gives trades that are actually fair. It can’t tell you both sides actually want to trade for those players. Just that the proposal is or isn’t stupid. Or do you miss the days of stupid trade proposals??

 

 

Is that it? For someone who offers no actual discussion content and lives solely to poopoo the ideas of others, you don’t like that a BTV has taken steps towards obsoleting you…

[moonslav59]

No I’d rather play with toys like BTV.

 

Many have said “near meaningless,” especially on team stats like wins and losses.

 

Forget the links: just name one poster out of the “many.”

[Old Red]

Actually the Eye Test is fine when done right. For instance, it’s worthless when only done on highlights. It’s very limited when watching televised games, and it’s not useful for comparisons between different teams. And too many seem to fall into the “I saw that guy make an error once” category.

 

Also, fun fact. Eye Test is the choice of liars. It’s amazing how many people will say “I watch every game and he doesn’t get good jumps on flyballs.” Huh? What TV feed are you watching that shows the outfielders’ jumps?

 

 

BTV on the other hand, is nice. Trade proposals have been around since 1870. BTV gives a good argument against all of the “let’s trade lots of garbage for an All Star” proposals that get dropped everywhere. Or even worse yet, the “let’s trade all our garbage plus one half-decent prospect for an All Star.” It gives trades that are actually fair. It can’t tell you both sides actually want to trade for those players. Just that the proposal is or isn’t stupid. Or do you miss the days of stupid trade proposals??

 

 

Is that it? For someone who offers no actual discussion content and lives solely to poopoo the ideas of others, you don’t like that a BTV has taken steps towards obsoleting you…

I just don’t do an eye test on highlights. I mentioned watching highlights one time, and you and other took it from there. I also agree that the eye test doesn’t tell you everything, but it told me enough the last two years to show what a clown show the Red Sox were at times, and why they were a losing last place in the Div team. The eye test also showed me that the Red Sox was far away from an 87 win team that some thought watching the same things as I did.

Poopoo the ideas of others? Just get 1 thing right. BTV does nothing for me. I don’t need it. It’s as simple as that.

[moonslav59]

 

Also, fun fact. Eye Test is the choice of liars. It’s amazing how many people will say “I watch every game and he doesn’t get good jumps on flyballs.” Huh? What TV feed are you watching that shows the outfielders’ jumps?…

 

The one from behind home plate is often used and many times will have the CFer in the frame at the crack of the bat.

 

On plays where a slow or bad break is made, a replay from a better angle is sometimes shown.

 

True that no eyesight test can make definitive conclusions on slow break propensities, though.

 

The thing about eye test, to me, is that when someone say player A is a great defender, it takes on a comparative context to others at his position. Nobody watches every play made or missed by all 30 positional players.

[moonslav59]

I just don’t do an eye test on highlights. I mentioned watching highlights one time, and you and other took it from there. I also agree that the eye test doesn’t tell you everything, but it told me enough the last two years to show what a clown show the Red Sox were at times, and why they were a losing last place in the Div team. The eye test also showed me that the Red Sox was far away from an 87 win team that some thought watching the same things as I did.

Poopoo the ideas of others? Just get 1 thing right. BTV does nothing for me. I don’t need it. It’s as simple as that.

 

You claimed you stopped watching watered down MLB. Your eye test does nothing for me, nor do blind squirrels on broken clicks. It’s S simple as that.

[notin]

No love for Anthony, who has shown more success thanBleis?

 

Anthony want part of the Bleacher Report proposal…

[Old Red]

You claimed you stopped watching watered down MLB. Your eye test does nothing for me, nor do blind squirrels on broken clicks. It’s S simple as that.

 

Your predictions like 87 wins, and all your BTV suggested trades, which NEVER happen does nothing for me either, which means you are not even as good as a blind squirrel. That’s the facts Jack, and it’s as simple as that.

[notin]

The one from behind home plate is often used and many times will have the CFer in the frame at the crack of the bat.

 

On plays where a slow or bad break is made, a replay from a better angle is sometimes shown.

 

True that no eyesight test can make definitive conclusions on slow break propensities, though.

 

The thing about eye test, to me, is that when someone say player A is a great defender, it takes on a comparative context to others at his position. Nobody watches every play made or missed by all 30 positional players.

 

 

I like that view. Unfortunately it’s only used on 1% of pitches.

 

The higher up angle from directly begmhind the mound is good, too, because it allows you to see the actual break on LHP. It also dispels the idiotic myths about them being biomechanical freaks.

 

 

That’s what I meant when I said the Eye Test isn’t good for comparisons. It’s one thing to say “Player X is the best defender I have ever seen.” But to watch a player for 150 games vs watching no one else more than 6 times and say “Player X is the best defender in the league” is unsupported…

Edited November 21, 2023 by notin

[moonslav59]

I just don’t do an eye test on highlights. I mentioned watching highlights one time, and you and other took it from there.

 

How often do you watch a full Sox game, closely?

 

How often do you watch non Sox games in their entirety or otherwise?

 

Has that changed much, recently, after the league became too overwhelmingly “watered down” to watch?

 

Should we trust your recent eye test judgments as much as the days you watched more baseball?

 

Do you think it was just a coincidence that you made the watered down comment and stopped watching baseball for a while at tge precise moment the Sox we’re doing pretty well?

[notin]

Your predictions like 87 wins, and all your BTV suggested trades, which NEVER happen does nothing for me either, which means you are not even as good as a blind squirrel. That’s the facts Jack, and it’s as simple as that.

 

See?

 

He does only live to dismiss the others. Lots of criticism, no content…

[Old Red]

How often do you watch a full Sox game, closely?

 

How often do you watch non Sox games in their entirety or otherwise?

 

Has that changed much, recently, after the league became too overwhelmingly “watered down” to watch?

 

Should we trust your recent eye test judgments as much as the days you watched more baseball?

 

Do you think it was just a coincidence that you made the watered down comment and stopped watching baseball for a while at tge precise moment the Sox we’re doing pretty well?

 

Once again we’ve gone over this 100 times. You are trying to make it sound like I stopped watching BB as much, because the Red Sox were winning, which is 100% not true, and I have witnesses that can verify. On the other hand you JUMPED SHIP on the Red Sox in 2022 the fair weather fan that you are not the super fan you claim to be.

[Old Red]

See?

 

He does only live to dismiss the others. Lots of criticism, no content…

 

See! It’s tit for tat, and I know you are, but what am I, which responds to criticism, and no content. It works both ways. Once again an objective third party would see that. The gang at the local PF love it all.

[moonslav59]

Your predictions like 87 wins, and all your BTV suggested trades, which NEVER happen does nothing for me either, which means you are not even as good as a blind squirrel. That’s the facts Jack, and it’s as simple as that.

 

My prediction was wrong. I found it funny you ran away when it looked like it might be right. I stayed when I was wrong.

 

FYI, I don’t make trades onBTV to try and guess one that will come true. Once again, your assumptions are off base. I often fiddle around and submit some trades I would not sven like, but to just see what it might take to get a player mentioned by someone else. If I like a player from another team, I look at what return value it might take to get him.

 

I feel it’s better than just saying” we need to trade for an ace,” without giving some kind of specific return package. Making general claims line that are hard to ever get wrong.

 

Keep Patti g yourself on the back for being right about the Sox.

 

Keep running away when you look to be wrong.

 

Keep bashing fans that try to be optimistic and stick around through good and bad.

 

Those are facts, too.