Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Bellhorn04]

There are concerns with every pitcher simply due to the injury risk. With Yamamoto, there is a projection for a TOTR classic ace type starter. The other pitchers are 1b's or 2's. For the Sox to turn the franchise around, they need to find the next Tiant/Roger/Pedro/Sale.

 

As you pointed out, Snell has 2 CYA's.

[Bellhorn04]

What's the formula for WAR per million? Darvish is 37, joined MLB at 25, and has 31 WAR.

 

According to bb-ref, Darvish has made $167M to date... can we agree he's earned that? If so, does that mean Yamamoto would need close to 60 WAR to justify, say, a $330M contract (cost of living adjustments included for the next decade)?

 

Per FanGraphs, every 1 WAR from a free agent costs you $8-9 million in today's dollars.

[Bellhorn04]

I doubt Yama-San gets 300 mill honestly.

 

The projection is $225 mill, but there's a 15% posting fee on top, so if it's $225 mill the total actual cost is about $260.

[notin]

What? I literally said pitcher W-L basically don't matter. They're as much a product of the team as they are actual pitching performance.

 

Exactly. Team plus pitcher. Not just pitcher.

 

Bartolo Colon won the 2005 Cy Young over Johan Santana, despite Santana clearly out-pitching in every conceivable way. But Colon pitched on a good team - the AL runner up Angels - and consequently had more wins.

 

And wins was the only category Colon beat Santana in. Did it make him a better pitcher?

[Old Red]

He’s no “journeyman”

 

He’s pitched 7 years now in the big leagues, and accumulated a 38-34 record, and has also been on 3 teams in the last 3 years, and now he’s a $100M+ man?

[Bellhorn04]

He’s pitched 7 years now in the big leagues, and accumulated a 38-34 record, and has also been on 3 teams in the last 3 years, and now he’s a $100M+ man?

 

Yes. Don't you old schoolers like innings and ERA too?

 

Jon Lester was on 3 teams in 2 years, 2014 and 2015. Did that mean he sucked? Journeyman Jon?

[notin]

Yes. Don't you old schoolers like innings and ERA too?

 

Jon Lester was on 3 teams in 2 years, 2014 and 2015. Did that mean he sucked? Journeyman Jon?

 

Playing on 3 teams in two years is pretty common. If Team A trades an option year pitcher at the deadline to Team B, something that happens every year - and that pitcher signs with Team C after the season, there you go.

 

Now we see more pitchers dealt at the deadline with 1.5 seasons left, meaning they could be dealt at consecutive deadlines if the first acquiring team is floundering the next year…

[mvp 78]

As you pointed out, Snell has 2 CYA's.

 

He does have ace upside. Sorry, Yamamoto AND Snell are the two potential staff aces. However, I really don't like the idea of signing Snell.

[mvp 78]

Yes. Don't you old schoolers like innings and ERA too?

 

Jon Lester was on 3 teams in 2 years, 2014 and 2015. Did that mean he sucked? Journeyman Jon?

 

Can Monty throw to 1B?

[moonslav59]

He’s pitched 7 years now in the big leagues, and accumulated a 38-34 record, and has also been on 3 teams in the last 3 years, and now he’s a $100M+ man?

 

Yes,I know. I don’t care much about what he did 4+ years ago. He didn’t pitch a whole lot until 3-4 years ago, anyway.

 

Call him a journeyman and quote wi s and losses all you want. I disagree.

[moonslav59]

Playing on 3 teams in two years is pretty common. If Team A trades an option year pitcher at the deadline to Team B, something that happens every year - and that pitcher signs with Team C after the season, there you go.

 

Now we see more pitchers dealt at the deadline with 1.5 seasons left, meaning they could be dealt at consecutive deadlines if the first acquiring team is floundering the next year…

 

Being trades is not being dumped due to the team not liking him.

 

Monty is a good pitcher. We won’t lose a draft pick. I’m

[Old Red]

Yes. Don't you old schoolers like innings and ERA too?

 

Jon Lester was on 3 teams in 2 years, 2014 and 2015. Did that mean he sucked? Journeyman Jon?

 

Ah the old school thing again. I’ve already said all his other stats look good, but I just don’t think he’s a $100M+ man, and you guys are all trying to convince that he is.

[Dipre]

Ah the old school thing again. I’ve already said all his other stats look good, but I just don’t think he’s a $100M+ man, and you guys are all trying to convince that he is.

 

Bro, $100 mil is peanuts in today's money. He'll clear 100 mil easy.

[notin]

Ah the old school thing again. I’ve already said all his other stats look good, but I just don’t think he’s a $100M+ man, and you guys are all trying to convince that he is.

 

Doesn’t matter what any of us think. He’s getting $100mill from someone…

[Old Red]

Yes,I know. I don’t care much about what he did 4+ years ago. He didn’t pitch a whole lot until 3-4 years ago, anyway.

 

Call him a journeyman and quote wi s and losses all you want. I disagree.

You guys can Pooh, Pooh W-L records all you want like they don’t mean anything at all, and I never said they mean everything, but they do mean something. Just, because the Red Sox are in desperate need of SP, and he’s available doesn’t mean that now all of a sudden he’s better than he really is, and the Red Sox should try, and grab him. We disagree on what to call him, or if he’s worth the money, but no big deal.

[Old Red]

Doesn’t matter what any of us think. He’s getting $100mill from someone…

 

I’ll agree with that.

[Dipre]

You guys can Pooh, Pooh W-L records all you want like they don’t mean anything at all, and I never said they mean everything, but they do mean something. Just, because the Red Sox are in desperate need of SP, and he’s available doesn’t mean that now all of a sudden he’s better than he really is, and the Red Sox should try, and grab him. We disagree on what to call him, or if he’s worth the money, but no big deal.

 

W-L records are BS. Montgomery is a damn good pitcher, and should be their number 2 acquisition.

[Old Red]

Yes. Don't you old schoolers like innings and ERA too?

 

Jon Lester was on 3 teams in 2 years, 2014 and 2015. Did that mean he sucked? Journeyman Jon?

 

Monty has been compared to Scherzer, and now Lester, and he’s not as good as either one.

[notin]

Atlanta just signed Reynaldo Lopez for $30mill over 3 years.

 

Lopez pitched for 3 teams last year alone. That pushes him past “journeyman” straight into “slut”…

[notin]

Monty has been compared to Scherzer, and now Lester, and he’s not as good as either one.

 

Montgomery was only compared to them in terms of frequent team changes, which seems to be one of only two things you hold against him.

 

This was very evident from the context of both statements…

[Old Red]

Atlanta just signed Reynaldo Lopez for $30mill over 3 years.

 

Lopez pitched for 3 teams last year alone. That pushes him past “journeyman” straight into “slut”…

If the Red Sox could get Monty for $30M over 3 years I’m in.

[Old Red]

Montgomery was only compared to them in terms of frequent team changes, which seems to be one of only two things you hold against him.

 

This was very evident from the context of both statements…

 

I understand that, but still bad comparisons.

[notin]

If the Red Sox could get Monty for $30M over 3 years I’m in.

 

And if they could get Trout for $30mill over 3, everyone would love it as well. But they can’t. Montgomery is going to top $100mill. It’s just a question of who is paying.

[notin]

I understand that, but still bad comparisons.

 

You clearly didn’t…

[mvp 78]

You guys can Pooh, Pooh W-L records all you want like they don’t mean anything at all, and I never said they mean everything, but they do mean something. Just, because the Red Sox are in desperate need of SP, and he’s available doesn’t mean that now all of a sudden he’s better than he really is, and the Red Sox should try, and grab him. We disagree on what to call him, or if he’s worth the money, but no big deal.

 

7 of the top 20 pitchers over the past 3 years averaged 10 or less wins per year. Pitchers must really suck these days.

[Old Red]

7 of the top 20 pitchers over the past 3 years averaged 10 or less wins per year. Pitchers must really suck these days.

 

Now you’re finally getting it.🙈

[notin]

7 of the top 20 pitchers over the past 3 years averaged 10 or less wins per year. Pitchers must really suck these days.

 

No one is even saying Montgomery is a great pitcher. He’s a (I hate this undefined terminology) #2 pitcher.

 

But nowadays, the #2 guy does often command a $100mill contract…

[mvp 78]

Now you’re finally getting it.

 

If the best pitchers kinda suck, owners will need to pay top dollar on kinda sucky pitchers. That's just the economics of the game.

[Old Red]

No one is even saying Montgomery is a great pitcher. He’s a (I hate this undefined terminology) #2 pitcher.

 

But nowadays, the #2 guy does often command a $100mill contract…

 

If that’s the case That just show how far #2 pitchers have fallen.

[Old Red]

If the best pitchers kinda suck, owners will need to pay top dollar on kinda sucky pitchers. That's just the economics of the game.

 

I understand that point just like ticket prices go up every year to help pay for it.