Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[moonslav59]

Just a side note: The current staff could play up with a better D, and future acquisitions may play down. They must address the defense as a team.

 

I think the D should improve, significantly, even with no major additions:

 

SS: Story over the rag tag circus clowns of '23.

 

LF: Yoshi should DH 120+ games. Anyone else on the roster is an improvement.

 

CF: Rafaela is way better than anyone else we had in CF in '23, raw as he is.

 

2B: I think a full season of Reyes and maybe Urias beats the group we had in '23.

 

RF, 3B, and 1B will likely stay the same.

 

C should improve as the two we have gain more experience. Remember, the two catchers we had, this year, hardly caught anyone on the staff in 2022, and if they did, it wasn't for long. We should be bringing back many of the same pitchers of 2023, hopefully not the worst ones, but more from...

Bello

Crawford

Pivetta

Wink

Houck

Whitlock

Martin

Jansen

Schreiber

Bernardino

 

They may only see 3-4 new pitchers in '24.

 

 

 

[dgalehouse]

To sum up, bring in some really good players and we can have a really good team. Kind of like what Dombrowski did when he took over.

[moonslav59]

Meh. I think the Sox "still continue the practice" because of the arms they in fact have.

 

Your notion of a bunch of long relievers is a good one, but, in the absence of other starters--or the abysmal starts by Kluber--it seems to me common sense to convert the long relievers to starters.

 

Oh, it made perfect sense. That's why I'm all for adding 3 solid SP'ers, so we don't have to keep jerking these guys around, or at least lessen the odds of having to do so.

 

I know full well, we won't.

 

We will continue dreaming Sale will start 25 games and go 160+ IP.

We will keep thinking Houck can go past 18 batters.

We will be sufficiently impressed with Crawford's 4.78 ERA as a SP'er in 2023 to anoint him the 4th starter in '24.

We will keep Whitlock in the pen, but won't hesitate to start him, when someone gets hurt.

 

We won't make plans to cover for anything that could and will go wrong.

 

Unless, the new guy breaks the paradigm.

 

[Old Red]

I think the D should improve, significantly, even with no major additions:

 

SS: Story over the rag tag circus clowns of '23.

 

LF: Yoshi should DH 120+ games. Anyone else on the roster is an improvement.

 

CF: Rafaela is way better than anyone else we had in CF in '23, raw as he is.

 

2B: I think a full season of Reyes and maybe Urias beats the group we had in '23.

 

RF, 3B, and 1B will likely stay the same.

 

C should improve as the two we have gain more experience. Remember, the two catchers we had, this year, hardly caught anyone on the staff in 2022, and if they did, it wasn't for long. We should be bringing back many of the same pitchers of 2023, hopefully not the worst ones, but more from...

Bello

Crawford

Pivetta

Wink

Houck

Whitlock

Martin

Jansen

Schreiber

Bernardino

 

They may only see 3-4 new pitchers in '24.

 

 

 

 

I agree with most, but I’m not so sure that JT doesn’t come back, and then Masa goes back to LF. I’m also thinking that Valdez could be in the mix at 2B, and if that’s the case if Raffy, and Casas doesn’t improve the D only gets better at SS, and CF, which is still an improvement. RF could be another question too. Dugy did a good job out there this year, and I’m not sold on Abreu on D. I’m not counting on Duran FT either.

[moonslav59]

I agree with most, but I’m not so sure that JT doesn’t come back, and then Masa goes back to LF. I’m also thinking that Valdez could be in the mix at 2B, and if that’s the case if Raffy, and Casas doesn’t improve the D only gets better at SS, and CF, which is still an improvement. RF could be another question too. Dugy did a good job out there this year, and I’m not sold on Abreu on D. I’m not counting on Duran FT either.

 

I seriously doubt JT comes back at that option price, but he did seem to like it in Boston, despite all the seeping toxicity.

 

It doesn't make sense, to me. Yoshi should be the DH for several reasons:

1. He reallysucks on D, and I mean badly.

2. He seemed to burn out over the long MLB schedule.

3. The only position we seem to have a surplus is OF, especially LHB'ers in the OF.

 

I really like JT, and I'm worried about our offense, next year, without him. I just don't think we'll want to spend the money it may take to bring him back on him and not pitching and a RH'd bat who can play CF (or RF, if Dugo's days are numbered.)

[Bellhorn04]

Indeed, but at the time, I thought the only good thing we did have was depth. I kept saying we "choose quantity over quality," and it turned out the quantity was not nearly enough, either. (Certainly the quality was not good, either.)

 

Now, the plan is to pencil Sale into a top 5 slot and expect him to give us how many starts?

 

The #5 slot is usually pretty fungible...

[dgalehouse]

I don't think it serves any purpose to have slots for your starting pitchers. It's not as if you can pick the number one guy to pitch every game and the other guys are backups. They will all pitch in rotation.

[moonslav59]

The #5 slot is usually pretty fungible...

 

Yes. It is with many teams. And many teams use their long RP'ers as spot starters or slotted as their #6.

 

If we sign 2 really good pitchers, and we get lucky with both starting 31 games, each, we'd still need 90 starts from ____.

 

Let's say with some more good luck...

28 Bello

28 Pivetta

 

We'd need, best case scenario, 34 starts from ...

Sale

Houck

Crawford

Whitlock

Walter/Murphy

 

Are we to expect more good luck and get 24 from Sale and just 10 from Houck or Crawford and be able to keep Whitlock and the other one from Houck/Crawford in the pen all year?

 

IMO, we'd end up using 12 pitchers again, including all our long men plus Walter, Murphy and maybe Drohan or Wikelman.

 

Even 3 solid SP'ers does not guarantee keeping 2 or 3 of those guys in the oen, all year, but why not try to plan on just that? The 3rd guy could be a durable #4 type.

 

SP1 FA

SP2 FA/Trade

SP3 Bello

SP4 FA/Trade

SP5 Pivetta (who has been proven to start many games and give a lot of IP)

SP6 Sale

 

I'd rather have to get to my 7th SP'er not my #6 to start dipping into my long relief group in the pen.

 

I'd love to see, what I think might be revolutionary (at least for the Sox) to have a solid 4 man long relief pen and 4 man short relief pen combined.

 

Short: Jansen, Martin, Wink, Schreiber (AAA: Bernardino, Kelly, Robertson, Guerrero)

Long: Houck, Whitlock, Crawford, Pivetta (if Sale is healthy) or Murphy (AAA: Gambrell/Walter/Mata/Drohan/Wikelman)

 

To me, this is a top 5 or 6 pen in MLB. Why not plan for that?

 

[notin]

I think the D should improve, significantly, even with no major additions:

 

SS: Story over the rag tag circus clowns of '23.

 

LF: Yoshi should DH 120+ games. Anyone else on the roster is an improvement.

 

CF: Rafaela is way better than anyone else we had in CF in '23, raw as he is.

 

2B: I think a full season of Reyes and maybe Urias beats the group we had in '23.

 

RF, 3B, and 1B will likely stay the same.

 

C should improve as the two we have gain more experience. Remember, the two catchers we had, this year, hardly caught anyone on the staff in 2022, and if they did, it wasn't for long. We should be bringing back many of the same pitchers of 2023, hopefully not the worst ones, but more from...

Bello

Crawford

Pivetta

Wink

Houck

Whitlock

Martin

Jansen

Schreiber

Bernardino

 

They may only see 3-4 new pitchers in '24.

 

 

 

 

The corner OF slots figure to have some combination of Duran, Verdugo, Yoshida (if not DHing) and Abreu. Plus Refsnyder and potentially Duvall.

 

If the Sox trade, say, Yoshida and Verdugo they can hopefully get back a good defensive 3b and/or 2b and have a good defensive team out there. (Or sign Chapman and trade for the 2b.)

 

The new CBO might not be so enamored with Urias. I’m ok with Urias, who is sort of a blah 2b but does have some right-handed pop. But he was also on his way to being non-tendered by Milwaukee, was available for an A ball pitcher eligible for Rule 5 and already with one TJ surgery to his credit, and still lasted until the 11th hour and 59th minute at the trade deadline when you know the cash-strapped Brewers were trying to clear out his salary. So he might just not be in the new guy’s plans…

[moonslav59]

I don't think it serves any purpose to have slots for your starting pitchers. It's not as if you can pick the number one guy to pitch every game and the other guys are backups. They will all pitch in rotation.

 

Okay, we need 6 non numbered SP'ers before we dip into the pen.

[notin]

I don't think it serves any purpose to have slots for your starting pitchers. It's not as if you can pick the number one guy to pitch every game and the other guys are backups. They will all pitch in rotation.

 

What’s even worse is arguing over what slot a pitcher fits into. Especially since there’s no definition or anything so it’sa Bunch of people arguing about how their opinion is definitive…

[Old Red]

I seriously doubt JT comes back at that option price, but he did seem to like it in Boston, despite all the seeping toxicity.

 

It doesn't make sense, to me. Yoshi should be the DH for several reasons:

1. He reallysucks on D, and I mean badly.

2. He seemed to burn out over the long MLB schedule.

3. The only position we seem to have a surplus is OF, especially LHB'ers in the OF.

 

I really like JT, and I'm worried about our offense, next year, without him. I just don't think we'll want to spend the money it may take to bring him back on him and not pitching and a RH'd bat who can play CF (or RF, if Dugo's days are numbered.)

I think spending $100M for someone just to DH like Masa is not spending your money wisely. He would have to have a bigger bat like Ortiz to do that. I would trade him if I could. No JT is not coming back on just the option, and it would take a two year most likely. You may have to spend more on someone else for a RH bat.

[Bellhorn04]

What’s even worse is arguing over what slot a pitcher fits into. Especially since there’s no definition or anything so it’sa Bunch of people arguing about how their opinion is definitive…

 

Definitely one of the most pointless discussion points. It's right up there with "No one is untouchable. I'd trade anyone if the return is right."

[Old Red]

What’s even worse is arguing over what slot a pitcher fits into. Especially since there’s no definition or anything so it’sa Bunch of people arguing about how their opinion is definitive…

 

And even worse to comment on it. I for one wouldn’t even put Sale in the rotation, and just stick him in the BP with no defined role. That way it’s no biggie to replace him.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Old Red

[mvp 78]

And even worse to comment on it. I for one wouldn’t even put Sale in the rotation, and just stick him in the BP with no defined role. That way it’s no biggie to replace him.

 

It's no biggie to replace the 5th starter.

[Old Red]

It's no biggie to replace the 5th starter.

 

But Sale has never been the 5th starter, and it has been a biggie to replace him every time.

[moonslav59]

I think spending $100M for someone just to DH like Masa is not spending your money wisely. He would have to have a bigger bat like Ortiz to do that. I would trade him if I could. No JT is not coming back on just the option, and it would take a two year most likely. You may have to spend more on someone else for a RH bat.

 

The Yoshi contract is what it is. We have to deal with it and make the best of the situation.

 

May be having him DH 120-145 games would help him hit better than 2023. We know it would improve the D, by itself.

 

These should be the "easier" choices for the next GM.

[notin]

I think spending $100M for someone just to DH like Masa is not spending your money wisely. He would have to have a bigger bat like Ortiz to do that. I would trade him if I could. No JT is not coming back on just the option, and it would take a two year most likely. You may have to spend more on someone else for a RH bat.

 

What’s even less wise is keeping players in positions they clearly cannot handle just because of their salary…

[Old Red]

What’s even less wise is keeping players in positions they clearly cannot handle just because of their salary…

 

That’s why I’m all in for trading Masa.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s why I’m all in for trading Masa.

 

The only team I can think of that might trade for him is the Angels.

[Old Red]

The only team I can think of that might trade for him is the Angels.

 

You mean the Red Sox over spent on $100M for Masa, and nobody else would want him?

[Bellhorn04]

You mean the Red Sox over spent on $100M for Masa, and nobody else would want him?

 

I assume you've read my comments on the contract. Unfortunately, to me it looks like the scouts who said it was a major overpay were right. I'm pretty sure Bloom projected a higher OBP and SLG than we're getting for the money. It's possible a lot of the falloff came from fatigue and he'll do better next year. We have to hope so.

[Bellhorn04]

Kim Ng's contract with the Marlins concludes at the end of the 2023 season as well. I've heard her name recently on the wind.

 

There was some talk about her on the Over the Monster web site. (BTW I recommend that site to any Talksox poster. It's right up our alley.)

 

There was some questioning of whether her record is that exceptional.

 

https://www.overthemonster.com/2023/9/22/23885149/kim-ng-for-president-of-baseball-operations

[notin]

The only team I can think of that might trade for him is the Angels.

 

 

It does seem like he will be tough to move, but after this season when he has 4 years / $74.4 mill left, his deal might look favorable over what free agency has to offer…

[moonslav59]

That’s why I’m all in for trading Masa.

 

Sure, just like the Price trade where we had to throw in some bum named Betts.

 

LOL

[moonslav59]

It does seem like he will be tough to move, but after this season when he has 4 years / $74.4 mill left, his deal might look favorable over what free agency has to offer…

 

...and if we take back $25-30M of contracts in return, maybe there might be more takers, or pitch in $15-25M.

[Old Red]

Sure, just like the Price trade where we had to throw in some bum named Betts.

 

LOL

 

So the only team that would want him, and for that money is the Red Sox? 🤭

[Bellhorn04]

...and if we take back $25-30M of contracts in return, maybe there might be more takers, or pitch in $15-25M.

 

That's not out of the question.

 

Maybe they would rather keep him, because of the paucity of hitters available.

[moonslav59]

That's not out of the question.

 

Maybe they would rather keep him, because of the paucity of hitters available.

 

We do have several OF and DH types, and would not really need to replace him.

[notin]

We do have several OF and DH types, and would not really need to replace him.

 

Other than the corner infield duo, who else do the Sox have best suited to be a DH?