August 30 Houston at Boston

[Bellhorn04]

Horsehockey. The 2018 Sox were the best Sox team ever, but the 2019 team disintegrated because the pitching did--and the pitching has yet to recover.

 

moonslav has made a strong case that the Sox have always been lousy at developing pitching and therefore went out and "bought" pitching. That reached a peak when DD bought/traded for Price, Sale, Eovaldi, Kimbrel, and maybe a couple others for the 2018 team. But, then the 2019 team--which still had almost everyone, including Mookie, from 2018 except Kimbrel--collapsed.

 

I'm almost certain JH then said, "never again," by which he meant no more long term contracts for starters. He also fired DD and hired CB.

 

And that strategy is paying off brilliantly!

 

Your truly,

Corey Kluber

[Dipre]

i have no idea what JH wants from Bloom, but what he's doing isn't working for me. i don't like finishing last or next to last every year with a crap team. and when they finish last next year, i have no doubt that Bloom's defenders will say it's really a 8 year plan or some ******** to cover up the incompetence of Bloom and his front office. sure, i'm happy the farm is "top 5" but until that translates into wins for the Sox, i really don't care.

 

No offense, but I don't think ownership cares what works for us. We'll see how Henry truly feels about Bloom's performance this offseason.

[Dipre]

And that strategy is paying off brilliantly!

 

Your truly,

Corey Kluber

 

Not a fan of creating a pitching staff out of buying expensive pitching, but they'll have to dip into the FA market eventually.

[Bellhorn04]

No offense, but I don't think ownership cares what works for us. We'll see how Henry truly feels about Bloom's performance this offseason.

 

We know that Henry has no problems pulling the plug on his CBO's.

 

And what other explanation could there be for jettisoning Cherington than the last place finishes?

 

IMHO there is no way Henry is liking the results he's seeing. This is all about his patience.

[Dipre]

We know that Henry has no problems pulling the plug on his CBO's.

 

And what other explanation could there be for jettisoning Cherington than the last place finishes?

 

IMHO there is no way Henry is liking the results he's seeing. This is all about his patience.

 

That's what I mean. If he opens the purse strings and get at least one impact starting pitcher, you know this was part of their plan all along. Otherwise, Bloom is probably done. The one true thing here is that none of us know what the plan is, what Henry thinks, or what Bloom thinks, and no one on here should pretend like they do.

[illinoisredsox]

That's what I mean. If he opens the purse strings and get at least one impact starting pitcher, you know this was part of their plan all along. Otherwise, Bloom is probably done. The one true thing here is that none of us know what the plan is, what Henry thinks, or what Bloom thinks, and no one on here should pretend like they do.

 

I was listening to a Sox podcast earlier. They were discussing Bloom and ownership; one of the hosts mentioned that Liverpool fans are having issues with what Fenway Sports Group is doing in regards to spending on that team.

 

You are correct; none of us has any idea what Henry's thinking/vision/goals are. (no pun intended on goals)

[Bellhorn04]

That's what I mean. If he opens the purse strings and get at least one impact starting pitcher, you know this was part of their plan all along. Otherwise, Bloom is probably done. The one true thing here is that none of us know what the plan is, what Henry thinks, or what Bloom thinks, and no one on here should pretend like they do.

 

We may not know everything, but I don't think it's a total mystery. The team's public statements about trying to rebuild and compete at the same time were actually honest statements, I believe.

 

If they weren't trying to compete they wouldn't have made signings like Jansen and Martin.

 

To me the real question, and it's one we've talked about before, is whether Bloom is actually competent at constructing a major league roster.

[moonslav59]

Not a fan of creating a pitching staff out of buying expensive pitching, but they'll have to dip into the FA market eventually.

 

It’s not a good plan, but until we add a Bello to the staff every year or two, there are not many other options.

[Dipre]

It’s not a good plan, but until we add a Bello to the staff every year or two, there are not many other options.

 

The Dodgers and Astros (both teams the Sox are trying to emulate) are not afraid to dip their toes into the FA market for elite pitching if they think the guys can physically hold up and ask for consent before banging college girls (I like your yt channel though Trevor). So a guy like Yamamoto should be a target for the Sox.

[moonslav59]

The Dodgers and Astros (both teams the Sox are trying to emulate) are not afraid to dip their toes into the FA market for elite pitching if they think the guys can physically hold up and ask for consent before banging college girls (I like your yt channel though Trevor). So a guy like Yamamoto should be a target for the Sox.

 

Indeed, but one thing to notice: the Astros had a 6 pitcher rotation, not long ago, with all homegrown starters.

 

The Dodgers have a long list of homegrown SP'ers that have been big pluses to them.

 

We need to add 3 solid SP'er, this winter to be a top contender. We can't keep hoping Crawford will be our ace for a month- or Houck- or Whitlock- or Pivetta...

 

Even Bello should really be counted on as a solid #3 or decent #2.

 

Sale cannot be counted on for even 1 GS in 2024, so one could argue we need 4 SP'er, but I'm okay with Pivetta or Houck as our #5.

 

[dgalehouse]

Horsehockey. The 2018 Sox were the best Sox team ever, but the 2019 team disintegrated because the pitching did--and the pitching has yet to recover.

 

moonslav has made a strong case that the Sox have always been lousy at developing pitching and therefore went out and "bought" pitching. That reached a peak when DD bought/traded for Price, Sale, Eovaldi, Kimbrel, and maybe a couple others for the 2018 team. But, then the 2019 team--which still had almost everyone, including Mookie, from 2018 except Kimbrel--collapsed.

 

I'm almost certain JH then said, "never again," by which he meant no more long term contracts for starters. He also fired DD and hired CB.

 

Mookie is a fantastic player. Heck, this year he's even played SS and 2B. But he can't pitch. The Angels have two fantastic players in Ohtani and Mike Trout, and they can't even make the postseason.

 

After three terrific seasons , the Sox were ten games over .500 on the day that Dombrowski was unjustifiably terminated. He made the mistake of ignoring the bullpen . That and injuries to what seemed to be a strong rotation killed the team's chances to repeat. But he should not have been fired. That was a big mistake.

[moonslav59]

After three terrific seasons , the Sox were ten games over .500 on the day that Dombrowski was unjustifiably terminated. He made the mistake of ignoring the bullpen . That and injuries to what seemed to be a strong rotation killed the team's chances to repeat. But he should not have been fired. That was a big mistake.

 

He was never going to stay onboard for massive budget cuts. He'd have quit, himself, if they told him to trade Betts and Price. It probably killed him not to be allowed to bring Kimbrell back or trade more prospects at the 2019 deadline.

 

Just my opinion.

 

BTW, the team was 76-68 on 9/9/19 and had dropped 5 of their last 7 games.

Edited August 31, 2023 by moonslav59

[mvp 78]

Horsehockey. The 2018 Sox were the best Sox team ever, but the 2019 team disintegrated because the pitching did--and the pitching has yet to recover.

 

moonslav has made a strong case that the Sox have always been lousy at developing pitching and therefore went out and "bought" pitching. That reached a peak when DD bought/traded for Price, Sale, Eovaldi, Kimbrel, and maybe a couple others for the 2018 team. But, then the 2019 team--which still had almost everyone, including Mookie, from 2018 except Kimbrel--collapsed.

 

I'm almost certain JH then said, "never again," by which he meant no more long term contracts for starters. He also fired DD and hired CB.

 

Mookie is a fantastic player. Heck, this year he's even played SS and 2B. But he can't pitch. The Angels have two fantastic players in Ohtani and Mike Trout, and they can't even make the postseason.

 

Swap 2021 Renfroe with 2021 Betts and they beat the Astros in the ALCS.

[mvp 78]

That really is a filthy little + sign.

 

It's terrible. Not even 5 years and a day. This is ending at the conclusion of the 2024 season one way or another.

[mvp 78]

Not a fan of creating a pitching staff out of buying expensive pitching, but they'll have to dip into the FA market eventually.

 

Bloom reportedly likes Snell.

 

That's not the guy I'd want to give big money to.

[mvp 78]

After three terrific seasons , the Sox were ten games over .500 on the day that Dombrowski was unjustifiably terminated. He made the mistake of ignoring the bullpen . That and injuries to what seemed to be a strong rotation killed the team's chances to repeat. But he should not have been fired. That was a big mistake.

 

It's not that he ignored the bullpen, it's that he's never had an understanding of how to put a bullpen together. That goes back to Detroit and continues to this day in Philly.

[Dipre]

Bloom reportedly likes Snell.

 

That's not the guy I'd want to give big money to.

 

I like Snell too, but not for big money.

[mvp 78]

I like Snell too, but not for big money.

 

All those guys are getting big money this year.

[Dipre]

All those guys are getting big money this year.

 

Yamamoto it is.

[moonslav59]

Who is the pitcher(s) you would go large and long on?

[Duran Is The Man]

We may not know everything, but I don't think it's a total mystery. The team's public statements about trying to rebuild and compete at the same time were actually honest statements, I believe.

 

If they weren't trying to compete they wouldn't have made signings like Jansen and Martin.

 

To me the real question, and it's one we've talked about before, is whether Bloom is actually competent at constructing a major league roster.

 

that's an easy question to answer: he's not.

[Dipre]

Who is the pitcher(s) you would go large and long on?

 

Yamamoto.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Swap 2021 Renfroe with 2021 Betts and they beat the Astros in the ALCS.

 

They don't even get to the LCS with Betts, because he would never boot a ball into the bullpen. Betts can bowl, but Hunter kicks field goals.

[Bellhorn04]

Yamamoto it is.

 

He's getting big money too.

[Dipre]

He's getting big money too.

 

Good.

[moonslav59]

Yamamoto.

 

I'd be happy with that gamble plus a trade for another solid SP'er or another big signing.

 

I like Urias, mostly for his age and most recent 3 years not his 2023 season, but I know you like others more.

[mvp 78]

Who is the pitcher(s) you would go large and long on?

 

Nola

Yamamoto

[moonslav59]

Nola

Yamamoto

 

Nice.

 

We need both but likely have under a 5% chance of getting one.

[Bellhorn04]

Nice.

 

We need both but likely have under a 5% chance of getting one.

 

Bloom has succeeded in crushing your expectations.

[mvp 78]

Nice.

 

We need both but likely have under a 5% chance of getting one.

 

I'd say 20% chance for one of them. Nola is very unlikely. Yamamoto should be the clear #1 priority, but he's probably the clear #1 priority for another 10 teams.

 

The best Bloom will probably do is Snell and Hendricks.