Trade Deadline 2023

[Hugh2]

To some owners, there is value off the field for marketing and other reasons not factored into fWAR. Not sure Henry is as concerned about that though.

 

agreed, but how much is that really worth? especially on a losing team, because at some point you're going to have to pay to put a team around him too.

[mvp 78]

So an 18 year old was injured once and now he's possibility our best pitching prospect in terms of the ceiling and we want to trade him? Also, how many innings do international guys typically put up in their first year?

 

It certainly isn't a red flag at the very least.

 

Usually more than 2!

 

SoxProspects still lists Perales as a ceiling of a mid-rotation starter. That's Bello? Worse than Bello. That's the ceiling! It's more likely that Perales ends up in the pen since he's still having command/control issues.

[mvp 78]

If I'm trading high end guys like Perales, I need more than 1.5 years of team control from a guy.

 

I just don't think he's as high end as you do. He's not a top 100 guy. He might not be a top 200 guy.

[Hugh2]

I just don't think he's as high end as you do. He's not a top 100 guy. He might not be a top 200 guy.

 

Most guys aren't when they're coming from where he is and far away. Bello didn't enter the top 100 until he was 22. Why do you think he's not that high end? is there another reason or is it just his prospect ranking?

[Hugh2]

Perales was also promoted to Greenville, I expect him to start getting some helium real soon if he keeps pitching the way he is.

[mvp 78]

Perales was also promoted to Greenville, I expect him to start getting some helium real soon if he keeps pitching the way he is.

 

I hope he does. I'm just not counting on it.

[Hugh2]

I hope he does. I'm just not counting on it.

 

I don't think you can count on any prospect who is that far away, but that also means their value is that much less to other teams as well. Even if Perales doesn't turn into a stud there's still a very good chance his value significantly increases while he is in the minors.

 

I just don't think the ideal of trading guys with big ceilings but low value because they're far away.

[moonslav59]

I don't think you can count on any prospect who is that far away, but that also means their value is that much less to other teams as well. Even if Perales doesn't turn into a stud there's still a very good chance his value significantly increases while he is in the minors.

 

I just don't think the ideal of trading guys with big ceilings but low value because they're far away.

 

I agree, but Perales is a difficult situation. He's Rule 5 eligible and has zero chance of playing on the big club in 2024. That, in itself, is not so bad, unless you have 3-4 players in the same boat. We basically did that with Rafaela & Abreu, this year.

 

Perales was signed in 2019. The non season of 2020 hurt his development, and he pitched under 40 IP in 2021-2022 combined. He's been in our system for 4 years, but he doesn't even have 92 IP in the minors, yet.

 

I hate selling low, but I think other GMs value his ceiling and would give us something much better, if he were a part of the package. The extra 40 man slot may end up helping, but it could mean nothing, if we hold the slot for opening day 40 man guys like Ort, Brasier or Tapia.

[Larry Cook]

I agree, but Perales is a difficult situation. He's Rule 5 eligible and has zero chance of playing on the big club in 2024. That, in itself, is not so bad, unless you have 3-4 players in the same boat. We basically did that with Rafaela & Abreu, this year.

 

Perales was signed in 2019. The non season of 2020 hurt his development, and he pitched under 40 IP in 2021-2022 combined. He's been in our system for 4 years, but he doesn't even have 92 IP in the minors, yet.

 

I hate selling low, but I think other GMs value his ceiling and would give us something much better, if he were a part of the package. The extra 40 man slot may end up helping, but it could mean nothing, if we hold the slot for opening day 40 man guys like Ort, Brasier or Tapia.

 

This guy has good stuff but only when his command and control are functioning properly!!!

Winkleman has very good stuff but only when his command and control are functioning properly!!!!

 

I think there is room for both on the 40 man!!!!!

[Maxbialystock]

This guy has good stuff but only when his command and control are functioning properly!!!

Winkleman has very good stuff but only when his command and control are functioning properly!!!!

 

I think there is room for both on the 40 man!!!!!

 

Actually, I think the Sox pitching "system" de-emphasizes command and control. I didn't realize this until I noticed that young Rays pitchers seem to arrive with good command and control, almost as if their minor league coaches insisted upon it.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Maxbialystock

[moonslav59]

This guy has good stuff but only when his command and control are functioning properly!!!

Winkleman has very good stuff but only when his command and control are functioning properly!!!!

 

I think there is room for both on the 40 man!!!!!

 

I agree, but if we want to be buyers or add a solid SP'er with more than a year of team control, we have to part with good players- not crappy ones.

 

I mentioned adding Pereales to the deal, not because I'm giving up on him or thinks he can't be good, but because I do value him and think other GMs do, too, and will gives us someone very good- like Bieber.

 

We know how good Bieber is, and he already has control.

[Bellhorn04]

The rumor/speculation I'm hearing is massive offer from Red Sox for Ohtani.

 

Basic gist Marcelo Mayer, Brayan Bello, Ceddanne Rafaela, and Triston Casas for Ohtani.

 

If this deal gets done it would be massive and the Red Sox I think would have to agree a contract with Ohtani for a long term extension first. There's no way you commit that many resources to a guy who just walks at the end of the year.

 

article here:

https://clutchpoints.com/red-sox-perfect-shohei-ohtani-trade-boston-offer-angels-2023-deadline

 

The more I think about it, I wouldn't trade Bello or Mayer for two months of Ohtani-not unless it's one of the those dramatic deals where you get 48 hours to negotiate an extension, and in that case Ohtani wouldn't take any offer that wasn't absurdly beyond his own expectations.

 

Somehow I don't see this happening.

[moonslav59]

The more I think about it, I wouldn't trade Bello or Mayer for two months of Ohtani-not unless it's one of the those dramatic deals where you get 48 hours to negotiate an extension, and in that case Ohtani wouldn't take any offer that wasn't absurdly beyond his own expectations.

 

Somehow I don't see this happening.

 

I can't imagine the least amount he might extend for would be low enough to allow us to build a team around him and Devers.

 

No matter what, if we are willing to pay him mega bucks, then just sign him as a FA.

 

Is he going to single-handedly lead us to a ring, this fall?

[dgalehouse]

The injury to Trout makes it more likely that the Angels will fall out of contention and be willing to trade Ohtani. But I don't think you want to give up too much to get him unless you are willing to outbid teams like the Dodgers and Mets this off season. The bidding will get uncomfortably high.

[notin]

I agree, but if we want to be buyers or add a solid SP'er with more than a year of team control, we have to part with good players- not crappy ones.

 

I mentioned adding Pereales to the deal, not because I'm giving up on him or thinks he can't be good, but because I do value him and think other GMs do, too, and will gives us someone very good- like Bieber.

 

We know how good Bieber is, and he already has control.

 

 

With the Guardians in first place, a decision whether or not to deal Bieber is a bit of a quandary…

[moonslav59]

With the Guardians in first place, a decision whether or not to deal Bieber is a bit of a quandary…

 

They could wait to this winter or next deadline, but I'm pretty sure he gets dealt, at some point.

[moonslav59]

This one was accepted by BTV:

 

Casas, Rafaela, Walter, Mata, Murphy

for

Cease & Giolito

 

Turner to 1B, Yoshida to DH, Duvall LF/CF & Refnsyder LF

 

If Whitlock, Houck and Sale return, we can finally put Whitlock, Houck and Crawford back in the pen, giving us this for a 100% healthy staff:

 

Cease

Bello

Paxton

Giolito

Sale

 

Jansen

Martin

Houck

Whitlock

Schreiber

Crawford

Winckowski

Bernardino

 

Line-up:

vR

1. L Duran CF

2. R Turner 1B

3. L Devers 3B

4. L Yoshida DH

5. R Story SS

6. L Verdugo RF

7. R Duvall LF

8. R Hernandez/Arroyo 2B

9. R Wong C

 

vL

1. R Refsnyder LF

2. R Story SS

3. L Devers 3B

4. R Turner 1B

5. L Yoshida DH

6. R Duvall CF (or RF)

7. L Verdugo RF (or Duran CF)

8. R Kike or Arroyo 2B

9. R Wong C

 

Can this be a ring winning team?

 

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

This one was accepted by BTV:

 

Casas, Rafaela, Walter, Mata, Murphy

for

Cease & Giolito

 

 

 

I can see the White Sox maybe accepting this trade for one of these pitchers, but not for two under-30 starters receiving recent Cy Young votes.

 

For a Chicago GM to keep his job, the return would have to be more of a sure thing than two position players with potential (one of whom is redundant with the presence of Andrew Vaughn) and three decent arms that right now look destined for the bullpen. Have to think the White Sox would surely start by asking for Bello for either Cease or Giolito...

 

... and hopefully, Bloom would end discussions there. Or shift attention to a cheaper albeit more mediocre innings eater in Lance Lynn. He currently leads the AL in home runs and earned runs allowed, so at least we know he throws strikes. Ugh.

[Hugh2]

These trade proposals just scream hiking a 13,000’foot mountain and turning around at 12,000 feet.

 

Why trade so much future for 1-2 years. When you can keep your future and emulate exactly what you want to trade for in next years free agent class, which is more flush with pitching than we’ve seen for a very very very long time.

 

It’s like buying a house a month before you know the market is going to crash.

 

Sorry. But I’m holding onto Bello, Casas, Perales, Anthony, Mayer, Duran, and I’m signing a front line starter this offseason.

 

Maybe Verdugo is tradeable if you want to go out and sign Teoscar Hernandez this offseason.

[Hugh2]

It’s like having the money to buy a brand new car but spending all of it decking out your 300k 1991 Honda accord

[Bellhorn04]

These trade proposals just scream hiking a 13,000’foot mountain and turning around at 12,000 feet.

 

Why trade so much future for 1-2 years. When you can keep your future and emulate exactly what you want to trade for in next years free agent class, which is more flush with pitching than we’ve seen for a very very very long time.

 

It’s like buying a house a month before you know the market is going to crash.

 

Sorry. But I’m holding onto Bello, Casas, Perales, Anthony, Mayer, Duran, and I’m signing a front line starter this offseason.

 

I like that plan too, and I think it does line up with Bloom's approach.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I like that plan too, and I think it does line up with Bloom's approach.

 

But there is no Bloom history whatsoever that he is willing to offer market value for a multi-year contract to a frontline free agent starting pitcher.

 

The closest he came to that was Eflin, who was apparently under everyone's radar -- except for those pitching alchemists in Tampa.

 

Some posters like to insist (wish/hope/pray) that Bloom is just waiting for the right time to invest in actual under-30 starters... meanwhile, others insist it all starts with pitching, and the time is always now.

[Hugh2]

But there is no Bloom history whatsoever that he is willing to offer market value for a multi-year contract to a frontline free agent starting pitcher.

 

The closest he came to that was Eflin, who was apparently under everyone's radar -- except for those pitching alchemists in Tampa.

 

Some posters like to insist (wish/hope/pray) that Bloom is just waiting for the right time to invest in actual under-30 starters... meanwhile, others insist it all starts with pitching, and the time is always now.

 

This is true, but they've also been operating under their plan of building sustainable success. Criticize the execution and the results but they've been trying to do just that. Build up the farm and add short-term pieces to control the finances.

 

If they believe in this young core, and they believe their improved farm is ready to start helping in the coming years then it isn't outside that plan to switch gears and add that piece this offseason.

 

The Sox are notorious for switching gears every several years. That directive comes from Henry, not Bloom, in the end he can tell Bloom what to do, maybe not specifically but he does. Maybe Bloom isn't that guy, then Henry fires him and brings someone in who will. But If I was a betting man, I'd be willing to wager the Sox go out and buy an ACE this offseason.

[Bellhorn04]

But there is no Bloom history whatsoever that he is willing to offer market value for a multi-year contract to a frontline free agent starting pitcher.

 

The closest he came to that was Eflin, who was apparently under everyone's radar -- except for those pitching alchemists in Tampa.

 

Apparently they did make what they considered a very serious offer to Eovaldi too. Even Cora was adamant about that. But it's not much consolation when you don't actually get their signatures on the bottom line.

[mvp 78]

Apparently they did make what they considered a very serious offer to Eovaldi too. Even Cora was adamant about that. But it's not much consolation when you don't actually get their signatures on the bottom line.

 

The offer was good enough that Eovaldi came back to BOS and asked for the same offer after receiving the TEX offer. BOS said no.

[Bellhorn04]

The offer was good enough that Eovaldi came back to BOS and asked for the same offer after receiving the TEX offer. BOS said no.

 

Ay, there's the rub.

[mvp 78]

This guy has good stuff but only when his command and control are functioning properly!!!

Winkleman has very good stuff but only when his command and control are functioning properly!!!!

 

I think there is room for both on the 40 man!!!!!

 

If anything, they put Perales on the 40 man and Wikelman is available for the Rule 5 draft.

[mvp 78]

Actually, I think the Sox pitching "system" de-emphasizes command and control. I didn't realize this until I noticed that young Rays pitchers seem to arrive with good command and control, almost as if their minor league coaches insisted upon it.

 

The Sox have a mish mash of low ceiling guys that include command/control with lower velo and funky delivery or higher velo and command issues. These are the guys that can impress early on in the system and flame out by the time they get to AAA.

[mvp 78]

I agree, but if we want to be buyers or add a solid SP'er with more than a year of team control, we have to part with good players- not crappy ones.

 

I mentioned adding Pereales to the deal, not because I'm giving up on him or thinks he can't be good, but because I do value him and think other GMs do, too, and will gives us someone very good- like Bieber.

 

We know how good Bieber is, and he already has control.

 

Perales has value now. I don't know if his value goes up or down, honestly. I just know that he'll take up space on the 40 man and the Sox have said they are looking to compete.

[mvp 78]

With the Guardians in first place, a decision whether or not to deal Bieber is a bit of a quandary…

 

Bieber can also be a stand in for any number of other trade pieces.