The Red Sox starting rotation -- long term

[moonslav59]

It's all part of his 10 year plan.

 

If you throw out 2020, this is year 3.

 

I know it feels like eternity, but a 4-5 year plan is still in play.

[Bellhorn04]

You say that sarcastically but......

 

I'm just casting aspersions on the patience of Mr. Henry.

[mvp 78]

Or Bloom will be gone. Either or.

 

Both? Fire Bloom hire a spender that can do it well?

[moonslav59]

I'm just casting aspersions on the patience of Mr. Henry.

 

I think the plan did not really have a specific year in mind, but the idea was to build up the system and supporting cast before pouncing with major spending. The Story and Yoshida signings were not massive outlays but still a sign of nearing or thinking we are at “that time.” The Devers extension begins in 2024 and his prime years might be that window Henry and Bloom were planning for.

2024 would be Bloom’s year 5, if you count 2020.

I had serious hopes the felt like 2023 was “the year,” but not adding a top SPer makes me think it was not.

With very few 1 year deals, this year, there is reason to think 2024 is it.

[mvp 78]

I'm just casting aspersions on the patience of Mr. Henry.

 

Nobody knows what that guy wants anymore. All I've heard is that he currently doesn't want to spend, but others in the FO/ownership do.

[moonslav59]

Nobody knows what that guy wants anymore. All I've heard is that he currently doesn't want to spend, but others in the FO/ownership do.

 

How is spending on Devers, Yoshida, Story and some 2 year deals not “wanting to spend?”

 

I agree, there is a need for a step up, soon, and maybe this reset in 2023 will set it up for 2024, but Henry has spent a lot, recently.

 

Yes, a lot of money walked away, too, but let’s see what happens when the Devers deal kicks in and how much we spend to replace Kluber, Kike, Duvall and a couple others.

 

If we stay under the line in 2024, I’ll buy into the idea.

 

I doubt the plan is to wait for Mayer to be established

[notin]

Both? Fire Bloom hire a spender that can do it well?

 

The problem with spenders is the winning usually ends before the contracts do…

[mvp 78]

How is spending on Devers, Yoshida, Story and some 2 year deals not “wanting to spend?”

 

I agree, there is a need for a step up, soon, and maybe this reset in 2023 will set it up for 2024, but Henry has spent a lot, recently.

 

Yes, a lot of money walked away, too, but let’s see what happens when the Devers deal kicks in and how much we spend to replace Kluber, Kike, Duvall and a couple others.

 

If we stay under the line in 2024, I’ll buy into the idea.

 

I doubt the plan is to wait for Mayer to be established

 

Currently 15th in MLB in payroll for 2023!

[notin]

Nobody knows what that guy wants anymore. All I've heard is that he currently doesn't want to spend, but others in the FO/ownership do.

 

It doesn’t look like he wants to spend, at least not on pitching…

Edited May 30, 2023 by notin

[moonslav59]

Currently 15th in MLB in payroll for 2023!

 

Yes, that is what resetting does.

[mvp 78]

The problem with spenders is the winning usually ends before the contracts do…

 

Was that how they won all those championships from 04-18? Not spending?

 

04 2nd

07 2nd

13 4th

18 1st

[mvp 78]

Yes, that is what resetting does.

 

They were under in 2021. Are they going to reset every year now?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If you throw out 2020, this is year 3.

 

I know it feels like eternity, but a 4-5 year plan is still in play.

 

Chaim Bloom to the crowd at Winter Weekend: "... rebuilding for half a decade -- that’s not acceptable to you guys; that can’t happen in Boston.”

 

He did make a multi-year offer to Eflin, who let's not forget was a Phillies' bullpen piece last postseason, all the way through the World Series.

 

What's intriguing is that Eflin -- now 7-1, 3.17 in 9 starts -- was targeted for Tampa's rotation... and maybe Bloom's; was his old front office gang still sharing info or intentions, or does Bloom still think like them? Were any other clubs in on Eflin as a starter?

 

What's also interesting is that Dombrowski in Philly signed a cheaper option, and allowed the new guy to then make a reliever-to-starter transition of his own. Please don't tell me $7.5 mil AAV is too rich to pay for a guy with a 3.90 ERA and 1.048 WHIP in 7 starts.

[moonslav59]

Was that how they won all those championships from 04-18? Not spending?

 

04 2nd

07 2nd

13 4th

18 1st

 

6th in 21 and 22 and resetting in 23

[mvp 78]

If you throw out 2020, this is year 3.

 

I know it feels like eternity, but a 4-5 year plan is still in play.

 

Why throw out 2020? Giving Bloom a mulligan for no reason?

[mvp 78]

6th in 21 and 22 and resetting in 23

 

Why reset if they were just under in 21?

[mvp 78]

Chaim Bloom to the crowd at Winter Weekend: "... rebuilding for half a decade -- that’s not acceptable to you guys; that can’t happen in Boston.”

 

He did make a multi-year offer to Eflin, who let's not forget was a Phillies' bullpen piece last postseason, all the way through the World Series.

 

What's intriguing is that Eflin -- now 7-1, 3.17 in 9 starts -- was targeted for Tampa's rotation... and maybe Bloom's; was his old front office gang still sharing info or intentions, or does Bloom still think like them? Were any other clubs in on Eflin as a starter?

 

What's also interesting is that Dombrowski in Philly signed a cheaper option, and allowed the new guy to then make a reliever-to-starter transition of his own. Please don't tell me $7.5 mil AAV is too rich to pay for a guy with a 3.90 ERA and 1.048 WHIP in 7 starts.

 

Strahm averaged 4 innings in his 7 starts to go along with the 3.90 ERA.

[Bellhorn04]

Why reset if they were just under in 21?

 

We're on the "reset every second year" plan now, I guess.

[mvp 78]

We're on the "reset every second year" plan now, I guess.

 

Everytime they go over it's a new cliff.

[moonslav59]

Why throw out 2020? Giving Bloom a mulligan for no reason?

 

I didn’t throw it away. I said “if” and counting 2020 still puts a5 year plan in play.

 

I do think 2020 was part of the rebuild. We made trades at the deadline, set ourselves up for the Mayer draft, and she’d some longer term salary drains and got some return on losing Betts. It should count.

 

This is year 4. We are resetting the tax. Year 5 is set up for the big push, if we want it.

[mvp 78]

I didn’t throw it away. I said “if” and counting 2020 still puts a5 year plan in play.

 

I do think 2020 was part of the rebuild. We made trades at the deadline, set ourselves up for the Mayer draft, and she’d some longer term salary drains and got some return on losing Betts. It should count.

 

This is year 4. We are resetting the tax. Year 5 is set up for the big push, if we want it.

 

So in the 5 year plan, the 5th year is the fully formed year? Or is that year 6?

[moonslav59]

Why reset if they were just under in 21?

 

Because year 2 and 3 penalties are much worse?

 

I’ve never defended going over in 2022, and even criticised it pretty harshly.

 

I had hoped 2023 could be a spend big year, and it could have been.

 

I think they chose the window to start in 24 but maybe do t think I’d 23 as a throwaway year, either.

[moonslav59]

So in the 5 year plan, the 5th year is the fully formed year? Or is that year 6?

 

I’m just speculating and commenting on the 10 year plan remark.

 

Maybe Henry is thinking 6 or7 or 10 years.

 

No where did I say my idea is their idea.

[mvp 78]

I’m just speculating and commenting on the 10 year plan remark.

 

Maybe Henry is thinking 6 or7 or 10 years.

 

No where did I say my idea is their idea.

 

10 years would get them to 2029. At that point, they'd be talking about Bello/Casas QO's. That's probably too far down the line, right? There isn't even a prospect in the SP Top 30 with an ETA after 2027.

[mvp 78]

Because year 2 and 3 penalties are much worse?

 

The year 2 penalty isn't a big concern IMO. It's a jump from 20% to 30%. It's the year 3 that's the problem. Going over for 2 years and resetting seems like a reasonable take if you are not quite in the hunt.

[moonslav59]

10 years would get them to 2029. At that point, they'd be talking about Bello/Casas QO's. That's probably too far down the line, right? There isn't even a prospect in the SP Top 30 with an ETA after 2027.

 

I’m not thinking 10.

 

I was thinking 2023 until we avoided adding an ace.

 

I’m thinking 2024 (year 5) is not out of reach. We have a nice foundation in place with only a few contracts expiring and none of them are major losses, in fact most can be viewed as addition by subtraction.

 

There is good reason to think or hope 2024 might be the year Henry opens up the wallet and pays some lux tax. Maybe not. Maybe year 6 or 7 or never. I don’t know, but I see no reason to assume Henry is fine spending for good. He just extended Devers and paid a lot for Story and Yoshida. That does not look like a GM fixing to spend less.

 

Just my opinion- maybe just my hopes.

[moonslav59]

The year 2 penalty isn't a big concern IMO. It's a jump from 20% to 30%. It's the year 3 that's the problem. Going over for 2 years and resetting seems like a reasonable take if you are not quite in the hunt.

 

Yes, and year 2 gets you one year closer to year 3.

 

If the window is 2-3 years, you don’t waste year one being over the line.

 

Again, I had hopes the window would be 23-25, so I’m not defending the Chou es made. The biggest F-Up was going over in 22.

 

That has been my position since last June.

[mvp 78]

Yes, and year 2 gets you one year closer to year 3.

 

If the window is 2-3 years, you don’t waste year one being over the line.

 

Again, I had hopes the window would be 23-25, so I’m not defending the Chou es made. The biggest F-Up was going over in 22.

 

That has been my position since last June.

 

I think some of us agree that the decision to go over in '22 was foolhardy. Some wanted to sell midseason. I know the smartest and most handsomest of us wanted to sell some of our most expensive players prior the beginning of the season.

[moonslav59]

I think some of us agree that the decision to go over in '22 was foolhardy. Some wanted to sell midseason. I know the smartest and most handsomest of us wanted to sell some of our most expensive players prior the beginning of the season.

 

No, I didn’t.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Strahm averaged 4 innings in his 7 starts to go along with the 3.90 ERA.

 

Are they using him as an opener? Or just as a normal starter in the modern era of short start derangement syndrome? I did notice in his '23 splits on baseball-ref that Strahm's stats as a reliever in 7 appearances are a lot better...