Devers signs 11 year $331 million extension

[Bellhorn04]

He was the best right-handed hitter I've ever seen.

 

Trout and Judge have higher career OPS+ than Manny but still have years to go. Pujols would have been higher if he retired younger.

 

A few names in the conversation.

[moonslav59]

Trout and Judge have higher career OPS+ than Manny but still have years to go. Pujols would have been higher if he retired younger.

 

A few names in the conversation.

 

I don't really "see" them that often. Perhaps I should have worded it "best Sox right-handed hitter I have seen."

[moonslav59]

Didn't he try to fight Youk?

 

Yes, when Youk was trashing the dugout after a K, Manny stepped in and it almost became a fight.

[moonslav59]

One thing that no one has mentioned this year with all of Raffy’s ups, and downs is that he’s stayed healthy. You always cringe at one of his mighty swings that a pull is just a moment away.

 

Like a "lat strain?"

 

Could certainly happen.

 

(I love his swing.)

[Bellhorn04]

I don't really "see" them that often. Perhaps I should have worded it "best Sox right-handed hitter I have seen."

 

No, because he was better than that. Manny was one of the best hitters in the history of the game.

[moonslav59]

They did switch places in the 3-4 spots so you could look into that.

 

Not very often, and that's a difficult thing to research the numbers.

[Bellhorn04]

Not very often, and that's a difficult thing to research the numbers.

 

I know, that's why I have no intention of doing it.

[moonslav59]

I know, that's why I have no intention of doing it.

 

I think batting Papi in front of Manny helped Papi, but it's harder to tell about Manny.

 

I could be wrong, but it looks like, starting in 2006, it was almost exclusively Papi 3rd and Manny 4th.

 

In 2003, when Papi was first proving himself as a beast, Manny batted 4th and Papi 5th (Nomar 3rd, mostly.)

1.014 Manny 4th

.983 Papi 5th

 

2004:

3rd

.993 Papi in 421 PAs

.972 Manny 217

4th

1.030 Manny in 445 PAs

.958 Papi in 229

(This seems to show Manny did better after Papi.)

 

2005

3rd

1.030 Papi in 566

.908 Manny in 142

4th

1.014 Manny in 505

.959 Papi in 145

 

Maybe, I'm wrong.

 

We don't know how many times the other guy was up before or after, but it looks like Manny did better batting 4th not 3rd.

 

 

[dgalehouse]

Manny was a great hitter. He left a lot to be desired as a person. Enough said.

[oldtimer]

The Yahoo sports article by John Tomase on August 24th brings us back to the question of Raffy and where he fits in the future of the Red Sox. John's summary of Raffy as a 7 year player who has led the league in errors at 3rd base for going on 6 years and with a good but inconsistent bat seems close to reality. We are paying Raffy to be a star, but where does he fit? Too highly paid as a DH and 1st base already occupied. Is there an alternative position?

[Bellhorn04]

The Yahoo sports article by John Tomase on August 24th brings us back to the question of Raffy and where he fits in the future of the Red Sox. John's summary of Raffy as a 7 year player who has led the league in errors at 3rd base for going on 6 years and with a good but inconsistent bat seems close to reality. We are paying Raffy to be a star, but where does he fit? Too highly paid as a DH and 1st base already occupied. Is there an alternative position?

 

Inconsistent bat? Now that's just stupid. Tomase says some really stupid things.

[moonslav59]

The Yahoo sports article by John Tomase on August 24th brings us back to the question of Raffy and where he fits in the future of the Red Sox. John's summary of Raffy as a 7 year player who has led the league in errors at 3rd base for going on 6 years and with a good but inconsistent bat seems close to reality. We are paying Raffy to be a star, but where does he fit? Too highly paid as a DH and 1st base already occupied. Is there an alternative position?

 

He came up at a very early age, so let's look at his age 22 and beyond years (2019>2023>.) Where does Devers rank?

 

2000+ PAs since 2019

8th in OPS at .881

7th in SLG at .530

18th wRC+ at 131

 

1000+ PAs

18th fWAR at 19.1 (0.1 behind Altuve)

T8th in HRs with 137 (with Betts) and 2 behind Arenado.

3rd in RBIs at 447 (10 behind Olsen and 28 behind Alonso)

7th Runs scored (2 behind Soto and 3 behind TTurner)

 

He has not even turned 27, so he is in the heart of normal peak prime with a few more years within that time frame.

 

[moonslav59]

Inconsistent bat? Now that's just stupid. Tomase says some really stupid things.

 

He is really an idiot.

 

Not counting 2020, here are Rafael's OPS:

.916 in 2019

.890 in '21

.879 in '22

.867 in '23

 

How many MLB batters see their yearly OPS within a .050 range?

 

I bet it's a small percentage.

 

From 2021-2023, his OPS range is .023.

 

Sheer stupidity.

 

[Bellhorn04]

He is really an idiot.

 

Not counting 2020, here are Rafael's OPS:

.916 in 2019

.890 in '21

.879 in '22

.867 in '23

 

How many MLB batters see their yearly OPS within a .050 range?

 

I bet it's a small percentage.

 

From 2021-2023, his OPS range is .023.

 

Sheer stupidity.

 

 

Yep, absolute idiocy.

[oldtimer]

He is really an idiot.

 

Not counting 2020, here are Rafael's OPS:

.916 in 2019

.890 in '21

.879 in '22

.867 in '23

 

How many MLB batters see their yearly OPS within a .050 range?

 

I bet it's a small percentage.

 

From 2021-2023, his OPS range is .023.

 

Sheer stupidity.

 

 

John said he was a good hitter but we are paying him to be a great player. Clearly he is not even a good defensive fielder and his hitting numbers are good but are they great? I don't see John's question as stupid but instead, thought provoking.

[Bellhorn04]

John said he was a good hitter but we are paying him to be a great player. Clearly he is not even a good defensive fielder and his hitting numbers are good but are they great? I don't see John's question as stupid but instead, thought provoking.

 

Part of the reason he got such a huge contract was the timing and the inflationary explosion that was seen in contracts this past offseason. Look at what Bogaerts got.

 

I don't think there's much doubt there was also a public relations factor in Devers's extension.

 

His profile as a player was well established. It's not like his defensive struggles started this year.

 

If Tomase was going to write about this he should have done so when the extension was announced.

[moonslav59]

John said he was a good hitter but we are paying him to be a great player. Clearly he is not even a good defensive fielder and his hitting numbers are good but are they great? I don't see John's question as stupid but instead, thought provoking.

 

I'd say his hitting skills are great.

 

2000+ PAs since 2019

8th in OPS at .881

7th in SLG at .530

18th wRC+ at 131

 

1000+ PAs

18th fWAR at 19.1 (0.1 behind Altuve)

T8th in HRs with 137 (with Betts) and 2 behind Arenado.

3rd in RBIs at 447 (10 behind Olsen and 28 behind Alonso)

7th Runs scored (2 behind Soto and 3 behind TTurner)

 

Looks like a top 15-20 player making top 15-20 money, starting next season.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd say his hitting skills are great.

 

2000+ PAs since 2019

8th in OPS at .881

7th in SLG at .530

18th wRC+ at 131

 

1000+ PAs

18th fWAR at 19.1 (0.1 behind Altuve)

T8th in HRs with 137 (with Betts) and 2 behind Arenado.

3rd in RBIs at 447 (10 behind Olsen and 28 behind Alonso)

7th Runs scored (2 behind Soto and 3 behind TTurner)

 

Looks like a top 15-20 player making top 15-20 money, starting next season.

 

Simple, easily obtainable facts that Tomase should be aware of but apparently isn't.

[moonslav59]

Part of the reason he got such a huge contract was the timing and the inflationary explosion that was seen in contracts this past offseason. Look at what Bogaerts got.

 

I don't think there's much doubt there was also a public relations factor in Devers's extension.

 

His profile as a player was well established. It's not like his defensive struggles started this year.

 

If Tomase was going to write about this he should have done so when the extension was announced.

 

In all fairness, I think many of us thought his defense was better than earlier in his career and might get to a point where he could be near average.

 

His worse two DRS years were -11 in 2018 and -13 in 2021, and while -6 in 2022 was not great, it was better. (he's at -6, now in almost the same innings at 3B as last year.) His UZR/150 has improved steadily and surprisingly is near average, now:

-10.6 '20

-5.8 '21

-1.9 '22

-0.2 '23

 

About half his career errors are throwing (62 to 64,) and 7 of his 16 errors, this year are throwing. According to fangraphs, he has the 3rd best range factor score (+1.9) among all 3Bmen with 900+ innings (4th best among those with 500+.)

 

The eye test does not seem to match these numbers, I admit.

[moonslav59]

Simple, easily obtainable facts that Tomase should be aware of but apparently isn't.

 

...and he seems like the type of guy that would value RBIs more than I do.

 

Devers is third and not far from 2nd and 1st since 2019.

 

He's also a Yankee killer.

 

.856 career OPS

.874 Men on Base

.877 High Leverage

.906 2 outs RISP

.920 RISP

.955 Playoffs

 

One could claim this guy is "clutch," too.

[notin]

Simple, easily obtainable facts that Tomase should be aware of but apparently isn't.

 

If research like this can be done by the amateurs on this board, Tomase has no excuse. He’s as bad as that blatant liar Massarotti…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Is this stat any good:

 

Extra Base Hits 2019-2023

1. Rafael Devers 321

2. Fred Freeman 312

3. Marcus Semien 303

4. Marcus Betts 303

5. Matt Olson 300

[notin]

Is this stat any good:

 

Extra Base Hits 2019-2023

1. Rafael Devers 321

2. Fred Freeman 312

3. Marcus Semien 303

4. Marcus Betts 303

5. Matt Olson 300

 

Those Devers/Matt Olson comps look more true every day…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Those Devers/Matt Olson comps look more true every day…

 

This one is for any poster (like me) who have ever used the phrase "all-or-nothing" in conjunction with our hot cornerman...

 

Runs Produced (R + RBI - HR) 2019-2023

1. Freddie 825

2. Raffy 729

3. Semien 713

4. Mookie 710

5. the Ramirez who decked Anderson 688

[moonslav59]

This one is for any poster (like me) who have ever used the phrase "all-or-nothing" in conjunction with our hot cornerman...

 

Runs Produced (R + RBI - HR) 2019-2023

1. Freddie 825

2. Raffy 729

3. Semien 713

4. Mookie 710

5. the Ramirez who decked Anderson 688

 

Interesting to see Freeman #1 and relate that to the poster who thinks 1Bmen should not make the kind of money Devers is getting.

[redsoxrules]

Interesting to see Freeman #1 and relate that to the poster who thinks 1Bmen should not make the kind of money Devers is getting.

 

Freddie is A LOT better than Devers. It's not even a comparison. Oh he's also a lot cheaper.

[moonslav59]

Freddie is A LOT better than Devers. It's not even a comparison. Oh he's also a lot cheaper.

 

He was not young when he signed, and he's still making more than many 1Bmen.

[redsoxrules]

He was not young when he signed, and he's still making more than many 1Bmen.

 

Yeah because he's worth it. The dude is a beast.

[moonslav59]

Yeah because he's worth it. The dude is a beast.

 

No doubt. He's actually worth more.

 

Yes, 1Bman can earn big pay checks.

 

Or not.

[Jasonbay44]

Freeman is a walking hall of famer and one of best pure hitters in baseball. I don’t think Devers can touch Freeman’s career, but not many can. Dude is good at everything on offense, including base running. His only weak spot is his defense but when you hit like that, no one cares.