Henry boo'd at Bruin game

[mvp 78]

Here is the John Henry interview from Sean McAdam at the Boston Sports Journal:

 

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2023/02/19/john-henry-weighs-in-on-teams-approach-to-spending-free-agency-xander-bogaerts-and-chaim-bloom

 

Behind a paywall, the interview of Henry by Jen McCaffrey at The Athletic:

 

https://theathletic.com/4229567/2023/02/19/red-sox-owner-john-henry-qa/?source=emp_shared_article

 

Henry's longest response was saved for the CBA.

 

JH: I believe the vast majority of players, agents and clubs dislike baseball's economic system. During the last CBA, clubs presented ideas for change -- ideas clubs thought could address a lot of player issues, but they were rejected. Similarly, the union presented ideas that the clubs rejected. Virtually all of the ideas for change were to address player issues but the system itself has become so convoluted over so many CBAs -- each one being an outgrowth of previous ones -- that is difficult now to agree on much of anything. Somehow the two sides found a way forward as difficult as that was but we continue to have a system -- again -- players and clubs are unhappy with. The system needs change. Competitive balance continues to be a huge issue for clubs. Players can better identify their issues better than I, but their issues are just as compelling. We have enough time to address fundamental issues prior to the next negotiation. We need ideas, but more than anything, we need to continue talking about the issues and work to address them in a collegial manner. I know our commissioner is committed to this.

 

With regard to the Red Sox, we continue to work within the system whether it is on rule changes, disparity, economic incentives or competitive balance. This work is all about the game on the field and how all of these moving parts work together going forward. All of us who care about the game consistently discuss these issues. Right now, fundamental changes in media are at the forefront and we are fortunate to have a commissioner who has a very, very strong understanding of these issues and is always engaged in contingency planning and strategic solutions. Tom and I do what we can do assist.

 

When he talks about the economics of baseball, he truly believes that he is in a small market and he doesn't want to spend.

 

"And every team (maybe not the Mets) has a budget." - John Henry

 

That quote tells you all you need to know.

[Bellhorn04]

When he talks about the economics of baseball, he truly believes that he is in a small market and he doesn't want to spend.

 

"And every team (maybe not the Mets) has a budget." - John Henry

 

That quote tells you all you need to know.

 

So how do you explain the Devers contract? Didn't want to get booed again?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

When he talks about the economics of baseball, he truly believes that he is in a small market and he doesn't want to spend.

 

"And every team (maybe not the Mets) has a budget." - John Henry

 

 

What, Henry doesn't read NBC Sports?!?

 

"Which MLB teams make the most revenue? 1. LA, 2. Yankees, 3. Red Sox

 

What is each MLB team worth? 1. LA, 2. Yankees, 3. Red Sox $3.9 billion

 

Which MLB teams sell the most merchandise? Yankees, Dodgers, White Sox, Braves, Blue Jays, 6. Red Sox

 

Which MLB team has the biggest cash spending budget (highest payrolls for '23)?" Red Sox... not in the Top 10

[moonslav59]

Gobbledygook.

 

The way we're doing things, now was comical.

[moonslav59]

What, Henry doesn't read NBC Sports?!?

 

"Which MLB teams make the most revenue? 1. LA, 2. Yankees, 3. Red Sox

 

What is each MLB team worth? 1. LA, 2. Yankees, 3. Red Sox $3.9 billion

 

Which MLB teams sell the most merchandise? Yankees, Dodgers, White Sox, Braves, Blue Jays, 6. Red Sox

 

Which MLB team has the biggest cash spending budget (highest payrolls for '23)?" Red Sox... not in the Top 10

 

Fangraphs has us just $6M from being 8th. We may get there by the deadline. That's still not top 3-5, like we were for almost 20 years, but it's not like we've gone Rays and O's.

 

I do think Henry will cycle into a high spending period at some point after 2023, when the youngsters provide the depth needed to make a strong push for a ring with a couple big signings.

 

I had hopes "that year" might have been 2023, but I can see why waiting a year or two more might make more sense to JH & Co.

 

It might need to be before 2026 and the new CBA.

 

[mvp 78]

So how do you explain the Devers contract? Didn't want to get booed again?

 

You need to pay somebody. If they totally pulled the plug on everyone, they'd have nobody to market.

[mvp 78]

Fangraphs has us just $6M from being 8th. We may get there by the deadline. That's still not top 3-5, like we were for almost 20 years, but it's not like we've gone Rays and O's.

 

I do think Henry will cycle into a high spending period at some point after 2023, when the youngsters provide the depth needed to make a strong push for a ring with a couple big signings.

 

I had hopes "that year" might have been 2023, but I can see why waiting a year or two more might make more sense to JH & Co.

 

It might need to be before 2026 and the new CBA.

 

 

If the Sox didn't go from last to first to last, fans would be more forgiving with the payroll. If they keep waiting "one more year" to go big on payroll, the boo birds will turn out in full force if the Sox can't make a realistic run at relevancy.

[moonslav59]

I don’t disagree. I don’t think the plan was to finish last in any year, except maybe 2020, after we found out Sale and ERod would miss the season. A few of those teams that finished last, since 2012 did not appear to be last place teams in March- not that this matters much to fans, but I do not think the “cycle to rings” plan involves total tanking.

[mvp 78]

I don’t disagree. I don’t think the plan was to finish last in any year, except maybe 2020, after we found out Sale and ERod would miss the season. A few of those teams that finished last, since 2012 did not appear to be last place teams in March- not that this matters much to fans, but I do not think the “cycle to rings” plan involves total tanking.

 

I don't think the plan is to finish last, but they haven't had a good plan in place to finish in 3rd...

 

In recent memory when they haven't tried to "go for it":

2012 (post 2011, hired Bobby V to teach players a lesson and then gutted the team)

2014 (they just won a title, let them have their gruel)

2015 (Maybe Hanley and Pablo will make fans happy?)

2020 (time to tear it down and start by getting rid of the best player we have)

2022 (let's run last year back but take away the power bats and add more mediocrity)

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think the plan is to finish last, but they haven't had a good plan in place to finish in 3rd...

 

In recent memory when they haven't tried to "go for it":

2012 (post 2011, hired Bobby V to teach players a lesson and then gutted the team)

2014 (they just won a title, let them have their gruel)

2015 (Maybe Hanley and Pablo will make fans happy?)

2020 (time to tear it down and start by getting rid of the best player we have)

2022 (let's run last year back but take away the power bats and add more mediocrity)

 

The power bats of Bogey and JD only averaged 15.5 HR and 67.5 RBI between them last year.

[mvp 78]

The power bats of Bogey and JD only averaged 15.5 HR and 67.5 RBI between them last year.

 

The power bats I noted as being taken away were Schwarber and Renfroe. Schwarber wasn't replaced. Renfroe was replaced with JBJ.

 

Xander really isn't a power bat, maybe a gap to gap guy. Take away JD's April in '21 and his power has been gone for a while now. Other guys that should have produced: Story (injury bug, but showed flashes), Verdugo (will his bat ever kick in?), Kiké (dropped from 20 to 6), Raffy (injury zapped his 2nd half).

[jad]

I'm trying to think of franchises in any sport, where fans and writers seemed to hate the owner. Dan Snyder? D.T. Sterling? Jerry Jones (well, he's more of a buffoon than an object of hate), Marge Schott?, McCourt in LA? Not a good sign, and i don't think in any of these cases the hatred of the owners has much to do with their losing records.

[Bellhorn04]

The power bats I noted as being taken away were Schwarber and Renfroe. Schwarber wasn't replaced. Renfroe was replaced with JBJ.

 

Xander really isn't a power bat, maybe a gap to gap guy. Take away JD's April in '21 and his power has been gone for a while now. Other guys that should have produced: Story (injury bug, but showed flashes), Verdugo (will his bat ever kick in?), Kiké (dropped from 20 to 6), Raffy (injury zapped his 2nd half).

 

Right, sorry.

[moonslav59]

I don't think the plan is to finish last, but they haven't had a good plan in place to finish in 3rd...

 

In recent memory when they haven't tried to "go for it":

2012 (post 2011, hired Bobby V to teach players a lesson and then gutted the team)

2014 (they just won a title, let them have their gruel)

2015 (Maybe Hanley and Pablo will make fans happy?)

2020 (time to tear it down and start by getting rid of the best player we have)

2022 (let's run last year back but take away the power bats and add more mediocrity)

 

There were certainly "not-go-for-it"seasons, and that's what I meant by cycling for rings. My point was that they probably always felt every team, except 2020, was decent enough to make a run for the playoffs, but 3rd place was probably they expectation by top brass. So many last place finishes didn't seem to light much of a fire under them to change the model, except for maybe the Price signing, and now the Devers extension.

 

The fact that we are now 10th in spending is more about other teams going nutty than JH getting out-of-the-norm stingy. This is the pattern JH has followed for a long time. It's worked in the past, but with all the changes to MLB in the last few years, who knows, if it will again.

[S5Dewey]

I'm trying to think of franchises in any sport, where fans and writers seemed to hate the owner. Dan Snyder? D.T. Sterling? Jerry Jones (well, he's more of a buffoon than an object of hate), Marge Schott?, McCourt in LA? Not a good sign, and i don't think in any of these cases the hatred of the owners has much to do with their losing records.

 

Hmmm... I saw a bedsheet hung from the second deck in Oakland that said, "Will Rogers never met Al Davis".

[Bellhorn04]

Hmmm... I saw a bedsheet hung from the second deck in Oakland that said, "Will Rogers never met Al Davis".

 

As with John Henry and Jerry Jones, if you're going to be a hated owner, it's better to be one who's won 3 or 4 rings...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Today's column about Henry missing the point about fan frustration reflects a true narrative.

 

At least, for this fan. I'm looking forward to another baseball season, but does the owner honestly think we should feel good about a season featuring as many as five guys out of position on the field?

 

"The Red Sox are attempting to build a sustained winner, but there's skepticism that the farm system can support it. While we wait, we're being force-fed yet another stopgap roster prioritizing depth and versatility over talent, and we'll probably do it all again next year. Foundational homegrown stars keep walking out the door with little (Mookie Betts) or nothing (Bogaerts) to show for it."

 

"Chaim Bloom's roster feels like mixing two sets of puzzles and then wondering why only half the pieces fit... maybe we simply don't like what we see."

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-owner-john-henry-entirely-misses-point-why-fans-are-angry

[mvp 78]

Today's column about Henry missing the point about fan frustration reflects a true narrative.

 

At least, for this fan. I'm looking forward to another baseball season, but does the owner honestly think we should feel good about a season featuring as many as five guys out of position on the field?

 

"The Red Sox are attempting to build a sustained winner, but there's skepticism that the farm system can support it. While we wait, we're being force-fed yet another stopgap roster prioritizing depth and versatility over talent, and we'll probably do it all again next year. Foundational homegrown stars keep walking out the door with little (Mookie Betts) or nothing (Bogaerts) to show for it."

 

"Chaim Bloom's roster feels like mixing two sets of puzzles and then wondering why only half the pieces fit... maybe we simply don't like what we see."

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/red-sox-owner-john-henry-entirely-misses-point-why-fans-are-angry

 

C - McGuire/Wong - ok

1B - Casas - ok

2B - Arroyo - ok

SS - Kiké - ?

3B - Devers - ok

RF - Verdugo - ?

CF - Duvall - should be corner OF

LF - Yoshida - ?

 

The only guy really out of position is Duvall. I definitely don't count 5 guys out of position even if you question Kiké at SS (who plays a decent SS), Verdugo in RF (was the Opening Day RFer in 2020) and Yoshida is a LFer. Yoshida DH'd in Japan because their defensive standards are much higher than ours. He'll be better than some of the defensive scrubs we've thrown out there (Manny, Schwarber, et al). He won't be terrible, he'll be ok.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

C - McGuire/Wong - ok

1B - Casas - ok

2B - Arroyo - ok

SS - Kiké - ?

3B - Devers - ok

RF - Verdugo - ?

CF - Duvall - should be corner OF

LF - Yoshida - ?

 

The only guy really out of position is Duvall. I definitely don't count 5 guys out of position even if you question Kiké at SS (who plays a decent SS), Verdugo in RF (was the Opening Day RFer in 2020) and Yoshida is a LFer. Yoshida DH'd in Japan because their defensive standards are much higher than ours. He'll be better than some of the defensive scrubs we've thrown out there (Manny, Schwarber, et al). He won't be terrible, he'll be ok.

 

Good thing we have a lot of flexibility. As soon as Arroyo gets hurt, we'll have Dalbec or Turner or Wong at second... or we could move Duran back to the infield, as his speed will be more in play with no shifts (don't worry about his arm; we've been told speed offsets a weak arm... run the ball over to first, even from deep in the hole). Or Kike could slide over to second, with Chang or Dalbec at short. We just have to get by while waiting on Mondesi -- Bloom's latest not-ready-for-on-time acquisition.

[mvp 78]

Good thing we have a lot of flexibility. As soon as Arroyo gets hurt, we'll have Dalbec or Turner or Wong at second... or we could move Duran back to the infield, as his speed will be more in play with no shifts (don't worry about his arm; we've been told speed offsets a weak arm... run the ball over to first, even from deep in the hole). Or Kike could slide over to second, with Chang or Dalbec at short. We just have to get by while waiting on Mondesi -- Bloom's latest not-ready-for-on-time acquisition.

 

That doesn't even make sense. C'mon man.

 

Chang would be the 2B if Arroyo was injured.

 

The other 2B on the 40 man:

 

Hamilton

Valdez

 

I honestly would have moved Duran back to 2B last Spring Training because of how bad his defense was progressing. I don't think it's going to happen at this point though. Turner has played 2B, but that's basically ancient history at this point, but about as ancient history as the 1B innings as we are also banking on. The idea of Connor Wong fielding 2B has a little merit, but Sox also may just want him to just strictly focus on receiving. He has played 2B in the minors.

 

I'm not saying Bloom's plan is great for 2B. I think he's trying to make a bridge to either Story getting healthy or Rafaela getting promoted. I don't think this sets up the Sox for success in the short term. Relying on oft injured Arroyo and Mondesi seems like a bad bet. Why not just pair Iggy and Chang rather than Arroyo and Mondesi? There is less upside, but at least you'll be able to field the position and the floor will not be as low. Bloom seems to get stuck on waiting for a player's upside. It's a fools errand IMO.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

That doesn't even make sense. C'mon man.

 

Bloom seems to get stuck on waiting for a player's upside. It's a fools errand IMO.

 

Reply to your first statement: that was my exact point with these revolving rosters.

 

Reply to your last: disagree -- Bloom isn't waiting, but always hoping for a player's upside. That's the ceiling when picking up pieces off the floor.

[moonslav59]

Some waits have been worth it:

 

Pivetta (although his upside is a 4 slot SP)

Renfroe (before dumping him)

Kike

Schreiber

Refsnyder

Strahm

RHill

Wacha

 

I'm probably missing a couple others.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Some waits have been worth it:

 

Pivetta (although his upside is a 4 slot SP)

Renfroe (before dumping him)

Kike

Schreiber

Refsnyder

Strahm

RHill

Wacha

 

I'm probably missing a couple others.

 

I was thinking more of acquisitions the industry knows aren't ready when you get them: Schwarber -- worth it; Paxton -- not yet; Mondesi -- iffy (speed guy with blown ACL).

[moonslav59]

I was thinking more of acquisitions the industry knows aren't ready when you get them: Schwarber -- worth it; Paxton -- not yet; Mondesi -- iffy (speed guy with blown ACL).

 

Okay.

 

The Schwarber dice roll worked.

 

The paxton signing was puzzling on day one, but there is still time for him to earn the $10M.

 

I like the Mondesi gamble in his "walk year."

[mvp 78]

Some waits have been worth it:

 

Pivetta (although his upside is a 4 slot SP)

Renfroe (before dumping him)

Kike

Schreiber

Refsnyder

Strahm

RHill

Wacha

 

I'm probably missing a couple others.

 

Kiké was a good player before he came to the Sox.

 

Refsnyder plays horrible defense and people shouldn't expect a 146 wRC+ this season (394 BABIP).

 

Strahm was fine, but he was just an adequate middle reliever. He wasn't some godsend.

 

What did Hill do that was unexpected?

 

Why did he dump Renfroe? It doesn't make sense.

 

Wacha was a 1.5 fWAR guy last year. What was so great about it? I don't understand.

[notin]

EVERYBODY drops Renfroe after one year. He hasn’t returned to the same locker room since 2019. This season will be his fifth team in 5 years…

[mvp 78]

EVERYBODY drops Renfroe after one year. He hasn’t returned to the same locker room since 2019. This season will be his fifth team in 5 years…

 

Ignoring 2020, which we all like to do anyway. He's a 2 fWAR guy. Why aren't the Sox treating Alex Verdugo similarly? Help me understand it!

[Bellhorn04]

Okay.

 

The Schwarber dice roll worked.

 

The paxton signing was puzzling on day one, but there is still time for him to earn the $10M.

 

I like the Mondesi gamble in his "walk year."

 

The Paxton signing wasn't all that puzzling, we're seeing more funky deals like these with guys who have injury issues but upside. The Jays contract with Chad Green being a recent example.

[Bellhorn04]

EVERYBODY drops Renfroe after one year. He hasn’t returned to the same locker room since 2019. This season will be his fifth team in 5 years…

 

There's that old adage about guys with suitcase careers: "Look at the bright side, somebody wants you!"

[notin]

Ignoring 2020, which we all like to do anyway. He's a 2 fWAR guy. Why aren't the Sox treating Alex Verdugo similarly? Help me understand it!

 

Maybe because Verdugo is 4 years younger and there is hope he will tap into some more potential…