Devers next deal

[Old Red]

If it was just business, would he hire a guy to pay Story and Yoshida combined what they probably could've locked up Devers for, a year ago?

 

Let me rephrase that: in the past year, Bloom spent $270 million on a defensive whiz who in his first year as a Red Sox struck out at a higher rate than JBJ in 9 Boston years, and a foreigner who has yet to play an MLB game. Do you think Raffy would've signed for that a year ago?

 

I don’t even try to figure out why Bloom does some of the things he does, and I don’t think he does either. I would not have signed Story over Bogey, and definitely not Story, and the $100M man from Japan over Raffy.

[moonslav59]

What Bogey ended up getting I agree is a big overpay, which went up by the millions, and millions of what the Red Sox offered him last year, and what I believe he would have taken last year, which I believe the same will turn out the same way for Raffy. I don’t believe anyone has ever suggested that the Red Sox should have come close to paying Bogey what he ended up getting. The problem has always been letting Bogey getting to FAnin the first place, and not offering him a fair market offer.

 

So much overanalyzing going on, here.

 

Keep it simple: we never offered what Bogey wanted at any time.

[Old Red]

My comment was about "ten fold" and not that prices and maybe offers have not gone up or not.

 

That's why I wrote "10 fold?"

Would you say Raffy’s asking price has gone up $100M, or so since last offseason, and do you think JH would want to pay all those xtra millions?

[Old Red]

So much overanalyzing going on, here.

 

Keep it simple: we never offered what Bogey wanted at any time.

And who’s fault is that last offseason?

[mvp 78]

Would you say Raffy’s asking price has gone up $100M, or so since last offseason, and do you think JH would want to pay all those xtra millions?

 

I think he was worth 300 last year, he's probably worth 350 now on the open market at best. He didn't exactly light the world on fire last year and his defense was still -6 DRS.

 

Sox need to show him 300 and see if he'll sign.

[Old Red]

I think he was worth 300 last year, he's probably worth 350 now on the open market at best. He didn't exactly light the world on fire last year and his defense was still -6 DRS.

 

Sox need to show him 300 and see if he'll sign.

Did Bogey light the world on fire last year, and look what he got. All it takes is one owner to go nuts.

[mvp 78]

https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2023/01/what-rafael-devers-1-year-deal-means-for-his-chances-of-an-extension-with-the-red-sox.html

 

A source with knowledge of talks said Wednesday that discussions have been “steady” in recent weeks; that was not the case early in the offseason. Spring training has always seemed like the most logical time for a potential deal and it’s clear locking up Devers is a top priority for the Red Sox both before and during camp. Devers almost certainly will not negotiate during the season so Opening Day is something of a deadline.

[mvp 78]

Did Bogey light the world on fire last year, and look what he got. All it takes is one owner to go nuts.

 

He had a career high 6.1 fWAR.

[mvp 78]

I'm not as fixated on fault and blame as some, but it does often serve a purpose, when constructive and measures are taken to avoid repeating obvious mistakes by the parties directly involved. I'm not sure about what purpose fans assigning blame has, except to satisfy some internal need some of us have.

 

My answer:

 

Neither side found a meeting point.

 

Of course, I wish Bloom, JH & Co. had offered Bogey a fair offer that would have turned out to be less than what this exploding market has created, and the $168M/6 deal you suggested seems about as high as I'd have gone. I'm not sure Bogey/BorA$$ would have accepted that or not, so not knowing the answer to that question makes it hard for me to blame any side more than the other.

 

I also think we can't really say any mistake was made or not, until we see what Bogey produces over the next 6, 7, 8 or 11 years. Assigning blame or fault, now, is premature and "overanalyzing," IMO.

 

I don't look forward to analyzing Bogey's deal for 11 more years. It's done. It's over. Sox could have signed him for cheaper.

[moonslav59]

And who’s fault is that last offseason?

 

I'm not as fixated on fault and blame as some, but it does often serve a purpose, when constructive and measures are taken to avoid repeating obvious mistakes by the parties directly involved. I'm not sure about what purpose fans assigning blame has, except to satisfy some internal need some of us have. This is NOT the same as thinking nobody is to blame, as you have accused me of believing.

 

My answer:

 

Neither side found a meeting point.

 

Of course, I wish Bloom, JH & Co. had offered Bogey a fair offer that would have turned out to be less than what this exploding market has created, and the $168M/6 deal you suggested seems about as high as I'd have gone. I'm not sure Bogey/BorA$$ would have accepted that or not, so not knowing the answer to that question makes it hard for me to blame any side more than the other.

 

I also think we can't really say any mistake was made or not, until we see what Bogey produces over the next 6, 7, 8 or 11 years. Assigning blame or fault, now, is premature and "overanalyzing," IMO.

[moonslav59]

I don't look forward to analyzing Bogey's deal for 11 more years. It's done. It's over. Sox could have signed him for cheaper.

 

I don't either, but we both know it will happen.

 

Sidenote: had Lester sucked after that fiasco, there would be no ongoing discussions about that "mistake," except maybe some posters saying maybe letting Bogey go might be a good thing, like it was with Lester, Jake and others.

[Bellhorn04]

If it was just business, would he hire a guy to pay Story and Yoshida combined what they probably could've locked up Devers for, a year ago?

 

Let me rephrase that: in the past year, Bloom spent $270 million on a defensive whiz who in his first year as a Red Sox struck out at a higher rate than JBJ in 9 Boston years, and a foreigner who has yet to play an MLB game. Do you think Raffy would've signed for that a year ago?

 

Story 140

Yoshida 90 + 15 fee = 105

Total 245

[Old Red]

He had a career high 6.1 fWAR.

 

I don’t think JH is sitting there with a metric sheet, and using that to decide if he is going to sign someone, or not. He has seen enough of Boygey, and Raffy play to know what they can do.

[Old Red]

Story 140

Yoshida 90 + 15 fee = 105

Total 245

 

Who knows if that would have been enough last offseason to lock up Raffy.

[mvp 78]

I don’t think JH is sitting there with a metric sheet, and using that to decide if he is going to sign someone, or not. He has seen enough of Boygey, and Raffy play to know what they can do.

 

He didn't need a "metric sheet" to hear all the people raving about "Xander's improved defense" which is encapsulated in the fWAR number I posted.

[mvp 78]

Who knows if that would have been enough last offseason to lock up Raffy.

 

Doubtful.

[Old Red]

I don't look forward to analyzing Bogey's deal for 11 more years. It's done. It's over. Sox could have signed him for cheaper.

 

Seeing what Story, and Yoshida does the next 5 years will be more like it. I hope Bogey has a good, and productive career the next 11 years.

[moonslav59]

He didn't need a "metric sheet" to hear all the people raving about "Xander's improved defense" which is encapsulated in the fWAR number I posted.

 

But, what about all the shift- aided stuff you told us all about?

 

No metric sheet needed for that?

[Old Red]

He didn't need a "metric sheet" to hear all the people raving about "Xander's improved defense" which is encapsulated in the fWAR number I posted.

 

As you know I’m a 0% when it comes to metrics, so I don’t care either way. I don’t think the SD owner cared about Bogey’s metrics either.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Who knows if that would have been enough last offseason to lock up Raffy.

 

Red Sox rep, Spring 2022: "Raffy, we see the Braves just signed Matt Olson for $168 million. How would you like $245 million?"

 

Devers' rep: "I'd love it. The Red Sox always take care of their players. And their fans. Let's GO!"

[Old Red]

Red Sox rep, Spring 2022: "Raffy, we see the Braves just signed Matt Olson for $168 million. How would you like $245 million?"

 

Devers' rep: "I'd love it. The Red Sox always take care of their players. And their fans. Let's GO!"

 

Once again we will never know courtesy of Bloom, and JH.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Red Sox rep, Spring 2022: "Raffy, we see the Braves just signed Matt Olson for $168 million. How would you like $245 million?"

 

Devers' rep: "I'd love it. The Red Sox always take care of their players. And their fans. Let's GO!"

 

Red Sox rep, Winter 2023: "Raffy, we just signed Yoshida for $90 million. How would you like three times that much?"

 

Devers' rep: "Tell you what -- when he gets his first extra-base hit in the majors, I'll already have 300 more. So I'll sign for 300 times his contract."

[mvp 78]

But, what about all the shift- aided stuff you told us all about?

 

No metric sheet needed for that?

 

Well, I certainly believe his defense will regress. JH? The Padres?

[mvp 78]

Seeing what Story, and Yoshida does the next 5 years will be more like it. I hope Bogey has a good, and productive career the next 11 years.

 

I agree. I'm not really into rooting against former Sox unless they were jerkoffs.

[notin]

As you know I’m a 0% when it comes to metrics, so I don’t care either way. I don’t think the SD owner cared about Bogey’s metrics either.

 

We’ll see if they move him to third in 2024 after Machado opts out…

[mvp 78]

Red Sox rep, Spring 2022: "Raffy, we see the Braves just signed Matt Olson for $168 million. How would you like $245 million?"

 

Devers' rep: "I'd love it. The Red Sox always take care of their players. And their fans. Let's GO!"

 

Matt Olson doesn't play 3B.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I agree. I'm not really into rooting against former Sox unless they were jerkoffs.

 

Or Yankees

[mvp 78]

Or Yankees

 

Automatic jerkoff move.

 

Cool that the banner of this guy's Fangraphs page looks like this: https://www.fangraphs.com/players/kevin-youkilis/1935/stats?position=1B/3B

[Old Red]

Matt Olson doesn't play 3B.

 

But wasn’t Olson supposedly who they referenced in the contract offer last offseason to Raffy?

[mvp 78]

But wasn’t Olson supposedly who they referenced in the contract offer last offseason to Raffy?

 

And Devers was so annoyed by the comparison that he laughed away Speier when he asked about it. So why could we assume that he'd take any offer based on what Olson made? I think he wanted close to the Machado 10/300.