2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

Mayer was widely regarded as the top prospect in the draft, and we were very lucky to have picked him AND got him to sign for slot. But, lets remember, Groome was also the best player in 2016 and we all saw how that worked out. Still, in one year Mayer has showed more promise than J-Groome ever did. I think this kid is going to be special.

 

Pitching prospects tend to be more volatile than hitting prospects, plus Groome lost a lot of his stuff after his surgery.

[moonslav59]

Agreed, and even though a 5-year contract for a pitcher usually ends up as an albatross, let's face it: there's no way the Sox are going to get an ace to sign in Boston unless they offer the same years or more from other contenders. Let the trades begin.

 

One issue: Bloom's history is he takes forever to swing a swap, but maybe it's time to identify targets and get them, before someone else does.

 

Bloom may need some arm-twisting to pull off a big trade involving a top prospect or two. I think it will happen, as I felt Ben would have eventually done, too, but I'm just not sure this winter is the time they choose to pull the trigger.

 

We have a ton of young talent that will get some playing time on the big club in 2023. I count 14-16, not including Whitlock or Houck. Maybe we wait to see who shines, and where we need the most help.

 

I know the natives are restless, and maybe that will force a deal sooner than planned. I'm not sure those fans can be placated with a bunch of one year signings, as we punt the major decisions down the road one more year.

[Hugh2]

Lawlar was highly rated at the time, but was behind Mayer. It was kind of a shock that Mayer didn't go 1/1.

 

There was some talk of Lawlar going ahead of Mayer, but it was mostly in the context of someone taking a deal. Mayer was the consensus #1 talent

[Old Red]

Bloom may need some arm-twisting to pull off a big trade involving a top prospect or two. I think it will happen, as I felt Ben would have eventually done, too, but I'm just not sure this winter is the time they choose to pull the trigger.

 

We have a ton of young talent that will get some playing time on the big club in 2023. I count 14-16, not including Whitlock or Houck. Maybe we wait to see who shines, and where we need the most help.

 

I know the natives are restless, and maybe that will force a deal sooner than planned. I'm not sure those fans can be placated with a bunch of one year signings, as we punt the major decisions down the road one more year.

 

Yes the natives are restless, and there is NO time like the PRESENT to go all in. Like Mic said to Rocky in Rocky II. What are we waiting for?! You don’t take years off just to hope that things will get better down the road. If Bloom can’t do it then let’s get someone who can.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

After 162 regular season games Tampa and Toronto ended up playing two more games than the SOX. The final verdict was that all 3 teams failed.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom may need some arm-twisting to pull off a big trade involving a top prospect or two. I think it will happen, as I felt Ben would have eventually done, too, but I'm just not sure this winter is the time they choose to pull the trigger.

 

We have a ton of young talent that will get some playing time on the big club in 2023. I count 14-16, not including Whitlock or Houck. Maybe we wait to see who shines, and where we need the most help.

 

I know the natives are restless, and maybe that will force a deal sooner than planned. I'm not sure those fans can be placated with a bunch of one year signings, as we punt the major decisions down the road one more year.

 

Bloom and Co. are backed into a corner -- the one where the cellar door leads into the garage, and off into the sunset. The mouthpieces have told the Nation they're going to spend and be way better in 2023. A bunch of Garrett Richards guys or even veteran comebackers like Wacha and Hill just aren't going to do it this winter.

[mvp 78]

I mean in hindsight, the hype around Groome fell quickly after he was drafted because he never really performed, he battled so many injuries too. Mayer, to date, has looked great.

 

I think the injuries played a bigger part than performance. Drafted in '16 as a 17 year old, 50 innings in '17, TJS, 4 innings in '19...

[Old Red]

Bloom and Co. are backed into a corner -- the one where the cellar door leads into the garage, and off into the sunset. The mouthpieces have told the Nation they're going to spend and be way better in 2023. A bunch of Garrett Richards guys or even veteran comebackers like Wacha and Hill just aren't going to do it this winter.

 

And neither is Kike.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And neither is Kike.

 

Better get used to Kike; he may be the shortstop in 2023.

[mvp 78]

Bloom and Co. are backed into a corner -- the one where the cellar door leads into the garage, and off into the sunset. The mouthpieces have told the Nation they're going to spend and be way better in 2023. A bunch of Garrett Richards guys or even veteran comebackers like Wacha and Hill just aren't going to do it this winter.

 

The only issue is that this isn't the FA class to turn things around.

[Old Red]

The only issue is that this isn't the FA class to turn things around.

 

What, and how many are you planning on?

[moonslav59]

Yes the natives are restless, and there is NO time like the PRESENT to go all in. Like Mic said to Rocky in Rocky II. What are we waiting for?! You don’t take years off just to hope that things will get better down the road. If Bloom can’t do it then let’s get someone who can.

 

I think the problem with your position is this is that JH and upper brass share the longer term priority strategy they hired Bloom to put in place. Why would they get someone to switch to new philosophies they don't share?

 

They also see the falling attendance and NESN subscriptions and have to walk the thin line.

 

I understand you and probably the majority of Sox fans want more immediate success, especially after going pretty long with near total disappointments since 2018. I'm frustrated, too, and I'm probably one of the most extreme "in for the long term" Sox fans in existence.

 

In my opinion, the Sox will push hard to make the playoffs in 2023- harder than 2021 and 2022, but they will not go "all in," just yet. If they fail to make the playoffs, again, perhaps heads will role, but I seriously doubt they bring in a DD type GM who will trade away much of the farm. I think upper management is sold on the idea of sticking to a sustainable winning system being pout in place and adhered to for the long haul. It's just my opinion. At any moment, they can turn on a dime, like they have in the past.

 

With so much budget flexibility, this winter, one could easily argue "NOW IS THE TIME," but with so few major impact FAs out there, I don't think this is the year to spend large and long on several players. We could try to sign some mid-tier FAs to 2-5 years, who we think will not only help in 2023 but beyond, as well. A big trade is probably needed to make us highly competitive, but that might not happen until the following winter.

 

This should be a very telling winter, and if Bloom does not go "all in," it shouldn't be viewed as his choice, alone.

[moonslav59]

The only issue is that this isn't the FA class to turn things around.

 

You said it much better than I.

[Old Red]

I think the problem with your position is this is that JH and upper brass share the longer term priority strategy they hired Bloom to put in place. Why would they get someone to switch to new philosophies they don't share?

 

They also see the falling attendance and NESN subscriptions and have to walk the thin line.

 

I understand you and probably the majority of Sox fans want more immediate success, especially after going pretty long with near total disappointments since 2018. I'm frustrated, too, and I'm probably one of the most extreme "in for the long term" Sox fans in existence.

 

In my opinion, the Sox will push hard to make the playoffs in 2023- harder than 2021 and 2022, but they will not go "all in," just yet. If they fail to make the playoffs, again, perhaps heads will role, but I seriously doubt they bring in a DD type GM who will trade away much of the farm. I think upper management is sold on the idea of sticking to a sustainable winning system being pout in place and adhered to for the long haul. It's just my opinion. At any moment, they can turn on a dime, like they have in the past.

 

With so much budget flexibility, this winter, one could easily argue "NOW IS THE TIME," but with so few major impact FAs out there, I don't think this is the year to spend large and long on several players. We could try to sign some mid-tier FAs to 2-5 years, who we think will not only help in 2023 but beyond, as well. A big trade is probably needed to make us highly competitive, but that might not happen until the following winter.

 

This should be a very telling winter, and if Bloom does not go "all in," it shouldn't be viewed as his choice, alone.

If Bogey, and Raffy are resigned I don’t think you are going to be signing any other big contracts now anyway, so trades will have to be made. If Bogey for now especially is not signed than that changes things. I understand fully if Bogey, and Raffy are not resigning that most of the blame will be on JH.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

You said it much better than I.

 

So who is the coveted free agent for 2024 that will make it time to go for it -- Josh Hader?

[mvp 78]

What, and how many are you planning on?

 

How many FA?

 

I'm just saying this isn't a great year to go from last DAMN place to 100+ wins. The pitchers that should be available to the Sox will be a combination of old, injured and overpriced. I think there are some decent second tier options like Bassitt. I don't see the Sox getting an ace except by trade. Will Bloom go that route? I'm not sure.

 

The everyday players are ok, but there are no real knock your socks off options unless you are going to sign Turner or Judge and I don't think the Sox will go that direction.

 

I think the Sox need to:

 

1. Solidify the foundation for the future: extend Raffy?

2. Bridge SS until one of the younger guys can take over in a few years: Xander?

3. Evaluate which prospects in their farm they are willing to sell high on and deal for controllable MLB guys: Rafaela?

4. Make a long term plan for Houk and Whitlock and stick to it.

5. Evaluate younger pitching prospects for potential ability to stick as late inning arms: Ward? Mata?

[moonslav59]

If Bogey, and Raffy are resigned I don’t think you are going to be signing any other big contracts now anyway, so trades will have to be made. If Bogey for now especially than that changes things. I understand fully if Bogey, and Raffy are not resigning that most of the blame will be on JH.

 

So, we spend much of our winter spending budget to just not get worse at SS and 3B. We are left needing to fill the innings left by Wacha, Hill, Nate and Strahm and the declining bat of JD.

 

The only solution to "going all in" in the "PRESENT" would be to spend significantly over the tax line for year 2 OR trade a few top prospects to improve at some higher need areas- most likely both would be needed to be a top contender in 2023.

 

Do you really think this is what JH and the top brass wants Bloom to do?

 

If your answer is no, why would they look to replace him? He'd be doing what they wanted.

 

I do think we could see a repeat of Ben, as he was expected to create somewhat contending teams during a rebuild, but failed badly in 3 of 4 years. Bloom needs to hit on his additions, but IMO, he did pretty well in that area, last winter, but the results were a last place team. I do not see a DD type replacing Bloom, if the axe does fall after 2023. It will be someone with the same outlook as Bloom, but maybe better at it.

[Old Red]

How many FA?

 

I'm just saying this isn't a great year to go from last DAMN place to 100+ wins. The pitchers that should be available to the Sox will be a combination of old, injured and overpriced. I think there are some decent second tier options like Bassitt. I don't see the Sox getting an ace except by trade. Will Bloom go that route? I'm not sure.

 

The everyday players are ok, but there are no real knock your socks off options unless you are going to sign Turner or Judge and I don't think the Sox will go that direction.

 

I think the Sox need to:

 

1. Solidify the foundation for the future: extend Raffy?

2. Bridge SS until one of the younger guys can take over in a few years: Xander?

3. Evaluate which prospects in their farm they are willing to sell high on and deal for controllable MLB guys: Rafaela?

4. Make a long term plan for Houk and Whitlock and stick to it.

5. Evaluate younger pitching prospects for potential ability to stick as late inning arms: Ward? Mata?

 

I agree with what you are saying, but I just don’t see waisting a prime year of someone like Raffy, or Story, or even Bogey for that matter, because you don’t know what the future will hold.

[moonslav59]

So who is the coveted free agent for 2024 that will make it time to go for it -- Josh Hader?

 

I think it will be a big trade not a big signing that puts us over the top.

 

Think Pedro, Schilling, Beckett and to a lesser extent Porcello for the 4 ring years.

[moonslav59]

How many FA?

 

I'm just saying this isn't a great year to go from last DAMN place to 100+ wins. The pitchers that should be available to the Sox will be a combination of old, injured and overpriced. I think there are some decent second tier options like Bassitt. I don't see the Sox getting an ace except by trade. Will Bloom go that route? I'm not sure.

 

The everyday players are ok, but there are no real knock your socks off options unless you are going to sign Turner or Judge and I don't think the Sox will go that direction.

 

I think the Sox need to:

 

1. Solidify the foundation for the future: extend Raffy?

2. Bridge SS until one of the younger guys can take over in a few years: Xander?

3. Evaluate which prospects in their farm they are willing to sell high on and deal for controllable MLB guys: Rafaela?

4. Make a long term plan for Houk and Whitlock and stick to it.

5. Evaluate younger pitching prospects for potential ability to stick as late inning arms: Ward? Mata?

 

I've been agreeing with you far too often, lately.

 

[Bellhorn04]

Boggs in NY was demoralizing, too.

 

I'm actually hoping some GM forces Cashman to wildly overpay for Judge. His contract will cripple them for years to come.

 

The dreaded C word!

[mvp 78]

Think about the teams that have won the offseasons in years past. How does TOR feel about Berrios? How does TEX feel about their 2021-22 offseason signings and winding up well out of the playoffs? Free agency alone hasn't helped the Angels much has it? Is COL happy about the first year of the Kris Bryant era? How did DET do with Baez and ERod? PHI did well with Schwarber, but what about Castellanos' larger contract? MIA is already unhappy with their small splurge on Soler and Garcia after only one year.

 

It's easy to look at a list of players and say "Bloom, go get some guys," but I'm not really sure that's the best way to turn things around.

[moonslav59]

I agree with what you are saying, but I just don’t see waisting a prime year of someone like Raffy, or Story, or even Bogey for that matter, because you don’t know what the future will hold.

 

We will have to spend so much just to stay even at 2B, SS & 3B.

 

Is wasting the future worth going after a questionable "win NOW" plan?

 

In the past we had a bigger core to "go all in" around than we do, now. The foundation has to be built up, first.

 

We have too many high need areas to expect any GM to hit the jackpot on in one winter of flurry- more like blizzard- spending and trading.

[mvp 78]

The dreaded C word!

 

Contract the Red Sox? Send them to the PCL?

[Old Red]

So, we spend much of our winter spending budget to just not get worse at SS and 3B. We are left needing to fill the innings left by Wacha, Hill, Nate and Strahm and the declining bat of JD.

 

The only solution to "going all in" in the "PRESENT" would be to spend significantly over the tax line for year 2 OR trade a few top prospects to improve at some higher need areas- most likely both would be needed to be a top contender in 2023.

 

Do you really think this is what JH and the top brass wants Bloom to do?

 

If your answer is no, why would they look to replace him? He'd be doing what they wanted.

 

I do think we could see a repeat of Ben, as he was expected to create somewhat contending teams during a rebuild, but failed badly in 3 of 4 years. Bloom needs to hit on his additions, but IMO, he did pretty well in that area, last winter, but the results were a last place team. I do not see a DD type replacing Bloom, if the axe does fall after 2023. It will be someone with the same outlook as Bloom, but maybe better at it.

Look at it anyway you want, but resigning Bogey, and Raffy are priority. This just all of a sudden just pop up, and Bloom yes has had 3 years to plan for this, and what to do with all the expiring contracts. Bogey especially should have been taken care of one way, or the other last off season, and Raffy one way, or the other should be taken care of now. Bloom has let it get to this point, and all the holes that have to be filled.

[moonslav59]

The dreaded C word!

 

I remember saying the Carl Crawford signing would "cripple us for years."

 

Luckily, we were able to get to dump him, but it took getting rid of a couple stars to do it.

[mvp 78]

I agree with what you are saying, but I just don’t see waisting a prime year of someone like Raffy, or Story, or even Bogey for that matter, because you don’t know what the future will hold.

 

If they are on the field in a MLB stadium somewhere, their prime isn't wasted. If they are sitting at home playing Xbox, their prime is being wasted. It's nonsense that you waste the prime of a player on a team that isn't in WS contention. If they win 88 games and are close to a WC spot, is that not good enough for a player like Bogey?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Having five or six big leaguers in the starting pitchers will stabilize the club, but the Red Sox nor anyone will actually contend for a ring unless they have a #1 and usually a #2 at the top of the rotation. And it doesn't matter if the roster is a last-place group, the change has to begin with an ace. You fill in other needs and positions around your pitching staff.

 

There's nothing wrong with adding a stud pitcher asap, whether it's Rodon this winter, Gausman last winter or whoever becomes available. All the playoff teams continually add quality pitching; even the Braves with their wealth of young homegrown starters signed Charlie Morton for depth.

[Old Red]

We will have to spend so much just to stay even at 2B, SS & 3B.

 

Is wasting the future worth going after a questionable "win NOW" plan?

 

In the past we had a bigger core to "go all in" around than we do, now. The foundation has to be built up, first.

 

We have too many high need areas to expect any GM to hit the jackpot on in one winter of flurry- more like blizzard- spending and trading.

Bogey, Raffy, and Story, and hopefully Casas is the foundation. There is no time like the present in my opinion.

[moonslav59]

Look at it anyway you want, but resigning Bogey, and Raffy are priority. This just all of a sudden just pop up, and Bloom yes has had 3 years to plan for this, and what to do with all the expiring contracts. Bogey especially should have been taken care of one way, or the other last off season, and Raffy one way, or the other should be taken care of now. Bloom has let it get to this point, and all the holes that have to be filled.

 

I'm not arguing against staying even by signing Devers and Bogey.

 

I disagree on your characterization of "Bloom letting it get to this point." He had little choice and did very well on many of his "choices," but certainly holding that opinion has merit and a large following.

Edited October 13, 2022 by moonslav59