9/13 vs Yankees

[Bellhorn04]

I’m with you Max let’s pat Bloom, and Cora on the back for leading the Red Sox to a losing record, last place in the DIV, and nowhere’s near a playoff berth. Imagine those bad Talksoxers who want Bloom, and Cora fired. What could they be possibly thinking?

 

I know one thing, if our bullpen isn't significantly better next year, I'll be right there with the torch and pitchfork gang.

[Old Red]

I know one thing, if our bullpen isn't significantly better next year, I'll be right there with the torch and pitchfork gang.

 

I hope we don’t have to see that.

[moonslav59]

The problem might be, how we feel if Bloom adds some proven pen pieces, and it still sucks.

[Old Red]

The problem might be, how we feel if Bloom adds some proven pen pieces, and it still sucks.

 

Having a plan to start with would be the first improvement over this years team.

[mvp 78]

Familia is the new Robles. Same dumpster?

 

Familia is a NY plant that should have been DFA'd.

[Bellhorn04]

The problem might be, how we feel if Bloom adds some proven pen pieces, and it still sucks.

 

That would still be torch and pitchfork. Bloom is supposed to be a pitching savant with Rays magic. Rays are still excelling at finding good arms out of nowhere.

[moonslav59]

Having a plan to start with would be the first improvement over this years team.

 

It wouldn't help stop the Bloom Bashers, if the pen sucks, next year.

[moonslav59]

That would still be torch and pitchfork. Bloom is supposed to be a pitching savant with Rays magic. Rays are still excelling at finding good arms out of nowhere.

 

You mean like Whitlock, Schreiber, Strahm and maybe German?

 

The Rays miss on a lot, too. It's not an exact science.

 

Bloom seemed to do better, this year, than in his previous 2- both on starting pitchers and relief pitchers added.

 

Wacha

Hill

Schreiber

Strahm

Diekman

Kelly

Danish

 

2021

Richards

M Perez

Whitlock

Ottavino

Andriese

Sawamura

(Mid season: Robles, Davis, Rios)

 

2020

I don't want to talk about it, and the list is 20 names long.

 

[Old Red]

It wouldn't help stop the Bloom Bashers, if the pen sucks, next year.

 

Nor should it.

[cukes]

Nor should it.

 

what a great acquisition Familia was, hope we get more like him, maybe we can bring Robles back for a super one two punch, Rays being in contention every year since Bloom left tell you it wasn't his magic, they just have a great scouting system

[Old Red]

what a great acquisition Familia was, hope we get more like him, maybe we can bring Robles back for a super one two punch, Rays being in contention every year since Bloom left tell you it wasn't his magic, they just have a great scouting system

 

Well said, and agree 100%.

[moonslav59]

what a great acquisition Familia was, hope we get more like him, maybe we can bring Robles back for a super one two punch, Rays being in contention every year since Bloom left tell you it wasn't his magic, they just have a great scouting system

 

It took years to get a system like that. Of course it wasn't just Bloom, or James Click or Friedman.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It wouldn't help stop the Bloom Bashers, if the pen sucks, next year.

 

Nor should it. Next year, it better get better.

 

Bullpen acquisitions have almost always been low-budget, bargain-basement abject failures in the Bloom Era. Besides exceptions like Strahm and Schreiber -- and not counting Whitlock, who was obviously signed longterm to be a starter -- a few weeks of success doesn't cancel out months of suckitude for the Robles of the world.

[moonslav59]

Nor should it. Next year, it better get better.

 

Bullpen acquisitions have almost always been low-budget, bargain-basement abject failures in the Bloom Era. Besides exceptions like Strahm and Schreiber -- and not counting Whitlock, who was obviously signed longterm to be a starter -- a few weeks of success doesn't cancel out months of suckitude for the Robles of the world.

 

I'm not disagreeing, and if Bloom spends big on the pen, and it fails, being critical of his choices will be fair game.

 

(I doubt he spends big, which is one reason I want us to trade for an ace, QO Wacha and keep Whitlock & Houck in the pen, all year.)

[Old Red]

Nor should it. Next year, it better get better.

 

Bullpen acquisitions have almost always been low-budget, bargain-basement abject failures in the Bloom Era. Besides exceptions like Strahm and Schreiber -- and not counting Whitlock, who was obviously signed longterm to be a starter -- a few weeks of success doesn't cancel out months of suckitude for the Robles of the world.

Agree, and some haven’t figured out that getting a few pluses does not even out all the minuses especially when you have a last place in the Div losing record starring you in the face everyday, and that’s what matters most.

[Jasonbay44]

Familia is literally at least the 4th different guy to be DFA almost as soon as a game ended, joining Davis, Sawamura and Robles. It’s amazing how bad this bullpen is

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not disagreeing, and if Bloom spends big on the pen, and it fails, being critical of his choices will be fair game.

 

(I doubt he spends big, which is one reason I want us to trade for an ace, QO Wacha and keep Whitlock & Houck in the pen, all year.)

 

I'd be happy if Bloom just signs the Tampa coach -- or analytic -- who in two years converted Jeffrey Springs from a Red Sox pitcher with a 7.08 ERA to a full-time Rays' starter with a 2.41.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd be happy if Bloom just signs the Tampa coach -- or analytic -- who in two years converted Jeffrey Springs from a Red Sox pitcher with a 7.08 ERA to a full-time Rays' starter with a 2.41.

 

No kidding.

[moonslav59]

I'd be happy if Bloom just signs the Tampa coach -- or analytic -- who in two years converted Jeffrey Springs from a Red Sox pitcher with a 7.08 ERA to a full-time Rays' starter with a 2.41.

 

It might not be one guy, and if it is, that guy probably missed on a few, too.

 

Also, remember when we said the same about Beeks?

 

There was even a 9 or 10 game stretch where we were shaking our heads about Chris Mazza in 2021.

[Maxbialystock]

I’m with you Max let’s pat Bloom, and Cora on the back for leading the Red Sox to a losing record, last place in the DIV, and nowhere’s near a playoff berth. Imagine those bad Talksoxers who want Bloom, and Cora fired. What could they be possibly thinking?

 

I didn't say to pat them on the back for this season.

 

However, this is the 20th season of the John Henry era, the most successful in Sox history, and in those 20 seasons he has never shown any hesitation to fire managers or GM's. Word is both Bloom and Cora will be back next year.

 

I can't claim to be an expert on managers, all of whom are hired to be fired, but have said repeatedly why I think Cora is a keeper. He managed the 2018 Sox to the best season in Sox history (122 seasons). In 2019, the expensive pitching DD went out and bought collapsed, but the Sox still had a winning record, just not a postseason berth. In 2020 he was justifiably banished from MLB, and without Cora the Sox had a losing season.

 

But the very next season--just last year, in fact--with Cora back but Mookie, Beni, Sale, Price, and Kimbrel either gone or very subpar, the Sox won 92 games, beat the Yankees in the wild card and the 100 win Rays in the ALDS before losing to the Astros in the ALCS, 4 games to 2. And they did it without a closer and in fact never got a save in 11 games--and only had one blown save, by Houck in the 6th inning of a game Sale started and lasted just 2.2 innings. I'd call that a pretty good season for the manager.

 

So here we are, as you say, in a losing season that has an outside chance of getting to .500 but not the postseason--and dead last in the AL East. Whose fault is that? As I've said too many times already, the pitching stinks. The Sox team ERA is 14th best of 15 AL teams. And part of that is because this year the Sox are still paying $63M for three pitchers--Sale, Price, and Eovaldi-- whom DD signed and whose total contribution to this year's team is a combined WAR of 1.0. The other part is a slew of injuries, including to both Sale and Eovaldi, but also Wacha, Hill, Whitlock, and Houck.

 

I am not knowledgeable enough to evaluate Bloom, but do believe he was hired to make some fundamental changes in how the Sox scout, acquire, and develop players. And I don't think fundamental change happens quickly. That said, John Henry gets to decide when enough is enough.

 

I am also aware that the fans have some say in how much time Bloom has because attendance and/or TV ratings can drop. Thus the dilemma about whether to give big contracts to Devers and Bogaerts, but fan favorites as well as good players (both started the All-Star Game this year). Moonslav discusses those two and a slew of other options way better than I could--and he isn't the only one who is better versed than I in player acquisition. I have read plenty of justified criticism of players Bloom acquired who haven't panned out.

[Bellhorn04]

It might not be one guy, and if it is, that guy probably missed on a few, too.

 

Also, remember when we said the same about Beeks?

 

There was even a 9 or 10 game stretch where we were shaking our heads about Chris Mazza in 2021.

 

It's an ongoing theme with the Rays, excellent pitchers most people have never heard of before. And when one goes down they find another one.

[mvp 78]

I'd be happy if Bloom just signs the Tampa coach -- or analytic -- who in two years converted Jeffrey Springs from a Red Sox pitcher with a 7.08 ERA to a full-time Rays' starter with a 2.41.

 

The Red Sox were high on him in 2020. He was talked about as a potential closer during that season. I was surprised when they didn't bring him back in the following year even though his results were less than impressive. If you take out his very first appearance where he got rocked, you can see how his numbers would have normalized over a whole season, especially if that high BABIP regressed.

[moonslav59]

I didn't say to pat them on the back for this season.

 

However, this is the 20th season of the John Henry era, the most successful in Sox history, and in those 20 seasons he has never shown any hesitation to fire managers or GM's. Word is both Bloom and Cora will be back next year.

 

I can't claim to be an expert on managers, all of whom are hired to be fired, but have said repeatedly why I think Cora is a keeper. He managed the 2018 Sox to the best season in Sox history (122 seasons). In 2019, the expensive pitching DD went out and bought collapsed, but the Sox still had a winning record, just not a postseason berth. In 2020 he was justifiably banished from MLB, and without Cora the Sox had a losing season.

 

But the very next season--just last year, in fact--with Cora back but Mookie, Beni, Sale, Price, and Kimbrel either gone or very subpar, the Sox won 92 games, beat the Yankees in the wild card and the 100 win Rays in the ALDS before losing to the Astros in the ALCS, 4 games to 2. And they did it without a closer and in fact never got a save in 11 games--and only had one blown save, by Houck in the 6th inning of a game Sale started and lasted just 2.2 innings. I'd call that a pretty good season for the manager.

 

So here we are, as you say, in a losing season that has an outside chance of getting to .500 but not the postseason--and dead last in the AL East. Whose fault is that? As I've said too many times already, the pitching stinks. The Sox team ERA is 14th best of 15 AL teams. And part of that is because this year the Sox are still paying $63M for three pitchers--Sale, Price, and Eovaldi-- whom DD signed and whose total contribution to this year's team is a combined WAR of 1.0. The other part is a slew of injuries, including to both Sale and Eovaldi, but also Wacha, Hill, Whitlock, and Houck.

 

I am not knowledgeable enough to evaluate Bloom, but do believe he was hired to make some fundamental changes in how the Sox scout, acquire, and develop players. And I don't think fundamental change happens quickly. That said, John Henry gets to decide when enough is enough.

 

I am also aware that the fans have some say in how much time Bloom has because attendance and/or TV ratings can drop. Thus the dilemma about whether to give big contracts to Devers and Bogaerts, but fan favorites as well as good players (both started the All-Star Game this year). Moonslav discusses those two and a slew of other options way better than I could--and he isn't the only one who is better versed than I in player acquisition. I have read plenty of justified criticism of players Bloom acquired who haven't panned out.

 

Well said, max.

 

While fans might think winning now is all that matters, a GM has to look at more than just that. I think Bloom had a pretty good plan going into 2022. There were were some known holes and some that were not so known at the start. Injuries and collapses, like at 1B created some wide gaps. Those can be viewed as just making excuses, as is blaming a restricted winter spending budget, but it is just as real as looking at our budget and saying we should be winning more than we are.

 

On building up the roster and farm from a pretty much decades long low point of 2020, I can't see how anyone can say Bloom has failed in this area, alone. Much still has yet to be determined, but he has added a lot of talent to the farm, and the depth of our 40 man roster is way better than 2020. This may be what has saved Bloom's job, but ownership looks beyond just one season's win-loss mark.

[Old Red]

It's an ongoing theme with the Rays, excellent pitchers most people have never heard of before. And when one goes down they find another one.

 

On the other side the Red Sox, pick up pitchers most people have heard about, and when they suck, and are DFA they just pick up another one from the same dumpster, and yes I know I few have actually worked out like Schreiber.

[dgalehouse]

One thing the Rays have is Kevin Cash. The best manager in the game. He gets the absolute best out of his players. And I don't mean that as a knock on Cora. Just as another explanation for the Rays' success.

[moonslav59]

On the other side the Red Sox, pick up pitchers most people have heard about, and when they suck, and are DFA they just pick up another one from the same dumpster, and yes I know I few have actually worked out like Schreiber.

 

Every team does this to varying degrees.

 

Hell, someone picked up Austin Davis.

 

Maybe they see something where they think a tweak or adjustment might help, or maybe they just think this junker in better than the junker I just DFA'd. Many times, it's just hit or miss. Take the Martin perez example for SP'ers. Bloom was criticized, by me, too, for signing him- not once but twice. Now, look at him.

[Bellhorn04]

Every team does this to varying degrees.

 

Hell, someone picked up Austin Davis.

 

Maybe they see something where they think a tweak or adjustment might help, or maybe they just think this junker in better than the junker I just DFA'd. Many times, it's just hit or miss. Take the Martin perez example for SP'ers. Bloom was criticized, by me, too, for signing him- not once but twice. Now, look at him.

 

The Rays seem to have been making mostly good picks for years now, though.

[moonslav59]

The Rays seem to have been making mostly good picks for years now, though.

 

Indeed, and they do better picking off the scrap heap and trading stars for prospects than they do drafting.