How would you use Whitlock next year?

[Bellhorn04]

Lots of varying thoughts on the best way to utilize this fine pitcher we stole from the Yankees!

[moonslav59]

I think he'd be a fine starter, and that has enormous value to a team, but it is harder to find a multi-inning, high leverage guru like Whitlock.

 

I'd keep him where he has shown he is most successful, which is not as a one inning closer or a SP'er.

 

Most of all, DON"T JERK HIM AROUND, next season!

 

PLEASE!!!!!

[Jasonbay44]

Whatever they do with him, I hope he has a set role and isn’t moved around. If they view him as a starter, let him start, if they view him as a closer, let him close, if they like him in this relief ace role, keep him in the pen. Don’t move him around from starter and bullpen guy.

 

I think his role depends a lot right now on the rest of the roster. What is Houcks role going to be? What will rotation look like? Who do they add to pen?

 

I personally prefer him in the pen as a relief ace, his value there is absolutely insane and you don’t find those guys often.

[iortiz]

Closer. Stop experiments already. The amount of BS this year is ridiculous.

[moonslav59]

I think everybody agrees to not jerking him around, but using him as a traditional one inning closer would be "an experiment," too, right?

 

It's the one thing he has never done for an extended time.

[redsoxrules]

Closer. I know he isn't your typical closer for the fact that he can pitch 2-3 innings from the pen . However it's nice to have the luxury with a 1 run lead after 7 innings to bring him for 2. I also feel he's more effective as a releiver. And plus I don't want another pitcher ruined because if this. Not including Daniel Bard a lot of other relievers career have been ruined from going to a starter from a releiver.

[notin]

Closer. I know he isn't your typical closer for the fact that he can pitch 2-3 innings from the pen . However it's nice to have the luxury with a 1 run lead after 7 innings to bring him for 2. I also feel he's more effective as a releiver. And plus I don't want another pitcher ruined because if this. Not including Daniel Bard a lot of other relievers career have been ruined from going to a starter from a releiver.

 

A relief ace didn’t mean you never pitch in the ninth inning. Schreiber has been filling that role for Boston this year and he has 5 saves.

 

And look how he’s been used. We had that one series in Toronto when he kept coming in solely to face Bo Bichette and Vlad Guerrero every game. Schreiber’s been great but Whitlock should own that role going forward.

 

I want to see Whitlock used like that. Toughest hitters are due up, regardless of inning, I want my best RP and therefore my best chance to put them away. If it’s the ninth inning and he gets a save, that’s all fine with me. But the idea of using my best RP based on inning creates too many situations where he’s facing weaker hitters or protecting bigger leads and is just overkill in those situations. Hopefully Barnes can return to form or Houck or maybe even Schreiber can handle the job or a newcomer (Fulmer? Treinen? Montero?) can take the ninth inning specialist role for lesser save situations…

[dgalehouse]

I think the Sox have been trying to limit his innings. But I think they see his future as a starting pitcher. I'm okay with that as long as they go out and seriously improve the bullpen this winter.

[moonslav59]

I think the Sox have been trying to limit his innings. But I think they see his future as a starting pitcher. I'm okay with that as long as they go out and seriously improve the bullpen this winter.

 

I think the Sox will make him a starter in 2023. I'd prefer they keep him in the super RP'er role he's excelled at, but the value of good starters is just too great to convince Sox brass to not try him at starter, IMO.

 

I doubt they spend big on the pen, though, so that's one reason I'd prefer to keep Whitlock where he is.

[Maxbialystock]

I trust Cora to give him the right role. As moonslav says, a good starter is far more valuable than the best closer simply because he eats a lot more innings. However, we don't yet know whether Whitlock can go 180 or more innings in a season.

 

We do know he's good pitching more than one inning per outing because he has an excellent repertoire and pretty good command. At least in the John Henry era, the most successful closers were on Sox teams that already had pretty good pitching--a good rotation and some good relievers. That was not the case this year--the Sox pitching stunk.

[a700hitter]

I trust Cora to give him the right role. As moonslav says, a good starter is far more valuable than the best closer simply because he eats a lot more innings. However, we don't yet know whether Whitlock can go 180 or more innings in a season.

 

We do know he's good pitching more than one inning per outing because he has an excellent repertoire and pretty good command. At least in the John Henry era, the most successful closers were on Sox teams that already had pretty good pitching--a good rotation and some good relievers. That was not the case this year--the Sox pitching stunk.

You are assuming that Cora will be the manager.

[dgalehouse]

Apparently we have invented a new one . The " relief ace " . And it is leading this poll. Apparently the " relief ace " is deemed to be more important than the closer or starting pitcher. Only on TalkSox .

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Can someone post his numbers as a starter vs. relief? I understand a starter pitches far more innings, but many of those innings are not high leverage innings. They often are in 5-1 games facing the bottom of the order. A closer by definition pitches the biggest inning, and he can be used almost every game in those situations. I can't think of too many teams that are playing in October that did not have an established closer. Nothing is more deflating to a team than blowing 9th inning leads. With that said I totally agree that putting your best pitcher to face the best part of the lineup in a close game, even if it's the 7th or 8th, is the play to make. Edited August 28, 2022 by Yaz Fan Since '67

[Bellhorn04]

Apparently we have invented a new one . The " relief ace " . And it is leading this poll. Apparently the " relief ace " is deemed to be more important than the closer or starting pitcher. Only on TalkSox .

 

Balderdash, Denny.

 

Not only has the relief ace idea been around for over 5 years, any Red Sox fan should remember a concrete example of it being used.

 

We faced Cleveland in the 2016 ALDS. Terry Francona was using Andrew Miller as the relief ace and Cody Allen as the closer that year.

 

Regular season numbers with Cleveland:

 

Miller 1.55 ERA .55 WHIP

Allen 2.51 ERA 1.00 WHIP

 

In Game 1 of the ALDS Miller came in in the 5th inning and pitched 2 innings. In Game 3 he came in in the 6th and pitched 2 innings.

 

So no, we didn't invent it. You just missed it.

[Old Red]

Balderdash, Denny.

 

Not only has the relief ace idea been around for over 5 years, any Red Sox fan should remember a concrete example of it being used.

 

We faced Cleveland in the 2016 ALDS. Terry Francona was using Andrew Miller as the relief ace and Cody Allen as the closer that year.

 

Regular season numbers with Cleveland:

 

Miller 1.55 ERA .55 WHIP

Allen 2.51 ERA 1.00 WHIP

 

In Game 1 of the ALDS Miller came in in the 5th inning and pitched 2 innings. In Game 3 he came in in the 6th and pitched 2 innings.

 

So no, we didn't invent it. You just missed it.

I’ve never heard of the term Relief Ace, so I guess I missed it to. This Whitlock discussion has been beat to death too since opening day for me. I think to go into a season like the Red Sox did this year without a reliable closer was just bad baseball management. Now Max will tell you the Sox had two experienced closers in Robles, and Barnes. Robles really? Wasn’t Barnes so good he was left on the postseason roster in 2021? The Red Sox lost games early this season, because they couldn’t protect some of the few leads they did have. Atlanta won it all last year, and had a decent backend of the BP yet still went out, and got a closer it Jensen. The Red Sox did nothing, and I don’t see the Red Sox going out, and getting one for next year. I think the sample size is bigger enough to see that Whitlock is better than good in the BP, and I trust him more than Houck, so to me the backend of the BP is where Whitlock should stay, and I think if Cora had control on that subject he would say the same.

[dgalehouse]

Balderdash, Denny.

 

Not only has the relief ace idea been around for over 5 years, any Red Sox fan should remember a concrete example of it being used.

 

We faced Cleveland in the 2016 ALDS. Terry Francona was using Andrew Miller as the relief ace and Cody Allen as the closer that year.

 

Regular season numbers with Cleveland:

 

Miller 1.55 ERA .55 WHIP

Allen 2.51 ERA 1.00 WHIP

 

In Game 1 of the ALDS Miller came in in the 5th inning and pitched 2 innings. In Game 3 he came in in the 6th and pitched 2 innings.

/

So no, we didn't invent it. You just missed it.

 

Balderdash. The " relief ace " is just another term for the "leverage" guy. Formerly known as set-up man. I didn't miss it. Francona was/is a player's manager. Allen was his closer. He wasn't going to demote him and give the job to Miller when Miller was acquired. This poll is slanted. We all know who thinks the " relief ace" is the best choice. That doesn't change the fact that it is a bad idea and will not gain wide acceptance in MLB. Whitlock, assuming he continues to pitch well, will either be a starter or closer.

[dgalehouse]

I’ve never heard of the term Relief Ace, so I guess I missed it to. This Whitlock discussion has been beat to death too since opening day for me. I think to go into a season like the Red Sox did this year without a reliable closer was just bad baseball management. Now Max will tell you the Sox had two experienced closers in Robles, and Barnes. Robles really? Wasn’t Barnes so good he was left on the postseason roster in 2021? The Red Sox lost games early this season, because they couldn’t protect some of the few leads they did have. Atlanta won it all last year, and had a decent backend of the BP yet still went out, and got a closer it Jensen. The Red Sox did nothing, and I don’t see the Red Sox going out, and getting one for next year. I think the sample size is bigger enough to see that Whitlock is better than good in the BP, and I trust him more than Houck, so to me the backend of the BP is where Whitlock should stay, and I think if Cora had control on that subject he would say the same.

 

Good points. Saying the plan going into the season was Robles and Barnes as closers is/was asinine. The " relief ace " idea is not going to happen, except in the minds of the same few posters. If you think Whitlock is your best arm, you don't use him as a glorified set up man. That is preposterous.

[Bellhorn04]

Balderdash. The " relief ace " is just another term for the "leverage" guy. Formerly known as set-up man. I didn't miss it. Francona was/is a player's manager. Allen was his closer. He wasn't going to demote him and give the job to Miller when Miller was acquired. This poll is slanted. We all know who thinks the " relief ace" is the best choice. That doesn't change the fact that it is a bad idea and will not gain wide acceptance in MLB. Whitlock, assuming he continues to pitch well, will either be a starter or closer.

 

Wow, what a sourpuss. It's just supposed to be a friendly discussion, but you have to use it to crap on other people here who think differently from you.

 

I guess that's just the way it's going here lately.

[Bellhorn04]

How in the hell is the poll "slanted"? Ridiculous.

[dgalehouse]

Wow, what a sourpuss. It's just supposed to be a friendly discussion, but you have to use it to crap on other people here who think differently from you.

 

I guess that's just the way it's going here lately.

 

Where in the world am I " crapping " on people. You can't be serious. So many things are posted here without any complaint from you. But you are calling my post " crapping on people?" You are very selective in your criticism. Try harder.

[dgalehouse]

Where in the world am I " crapping " on people. You can't be serious. So many things are posted here without any complaint from you. But you are calling my post " crapping on people?" You are very selective in your criticism. Try harder.

 

Just using the term "relief ace" is slanting things. Sounds kind of attractive.

[Bellhorn04]

Where in the world am I " crapping " on people. You can't be serious. So many things are posted here without any complaint from you. But you are calling my post " crapping on people?" You are very selective in your criticism. Try harder.

 

You know exactly what you're doing.

 

"Only on Talksox."

"The poll is slanted."

"We all know who thinks the relief ace is the best choice."

"The relief ace idea is not going to happen, except in the minds of the same few posters."

 

Those are all your words, and they are directly aimed at other posters.

 

Don't play dumb.

[Old Red]

Wow, what a sourpuss. It's just supposed to be a friendly discussion, but you have to use it to crap on other people here who think differently from you.

 

I guess that's just the way it's going here lately.

 

This all seems to be about nothing. Like I said earlier I have watched thousands of Baseball games, watched Sports Center millions of times, and also the baseball channel just to name a few, and I have never heard the term relief Ace used before until on here. And if there were ever such a thing as a relief Ace Dick Radtz would be it.

[notin]

Apparently we have invented a new one . The " relief ace " . And it is leading this poll. Apparently the " relief ace " is deemed to be more important than the closer or starting pitcher. Only on TalkSox .

 

The role has been around.

 

And been talked about for years. Sometimes it’s referred to as a high leverage pitcher or high leverage guy.

 

It’s actually pretty silly to constantly argue how important a closer is yet somehow think every at bat up through inning 8 is equal and therefore non-consequential.

 

Not to mention, Schreiber has been doing this role almost all year…

[notin]

This all seems to be about nothing. Like I said earlier I have watched thousands of Baseball games, watched Sports Center millions of times, and also the baseball channel just to name a few, and I have never heard the term relief Ace used before until on here. And if there were ever such a thing as a relief Ace Dick Radtz would be it.

 

When was the first time you heard the term “closer?” Was that for Radatz? In don’t think that team came into Vogue until the 1980’s…

[notin]

Balderdash. The " relief ace " is just another term for the "leverage" guy. Formerly known as set-up man. I didn't miss it. Francona was/is a player's manager. Allen was his closer. He wasn't going to demote him and give the job to Miller when Miller was acquired. This poll is slanted. We all know who thinks the " relief ace" is the best choice. That doesn't change the fact that it is a bad idea and will not gain wide acceptance in MLB. Whitlock, assuming he continues to pitch well, will either be a starter or closer.

 

 

The Red Sox have a relief ace RIGHT NOW!!

 

Don’t you watch games?!?!

[Old Red]

The role has been around.

 

And been talked about for years. Sometimes it’s referred to as a high leverage pitcher or high leverage guy.

 

It’s actually pretty silly to constantly argue how important a closer is yet somehow think every at bat up through inning 8 is equal and therefore non-consequential.

 

Not to mention, Schreiber has been doing this role almost all year…

Everything has to have a label, or a number these days. There used to be either starters, or reliever. You don’t see many good teams without a good closer.

[Old Red]

When was the first time you heard the term “closer?” Was that for Radatz? In don’t think that team came into Vogue until the 1980’s…

 

I have no idea when I heard the word closer, but I do know when I heard the term relief Ace. I’m surprised ECK has never used that, or any other announcers for that matter. Radtz could have been used for any term that has described a relief pitcher. He did everything.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Old Red

[notin]

Everything has to have a label, or a number these days. There used to be either starters, or reliever. You don’t see many good teams without a good closer.

 

Tampa, this year, has no designated closer…

[Bellhorn04]

This all seems to be about nothing. Like I said earlier I have watched thousands of Baseball games, watched Sports Center millions of times, and also the baseball channel just to name a few, and I have never heard the term relief Ace used before until on here. And if there were ever such a thing as a relief Ace Dick Radtz would be it.

 

If you Google relief ace you'll get a bunch of hits. I did not make it up. Jeezus.