8/20 SOX @ O's 4:05PM ET

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

It sort of hit at the base of the wall and did not rebound hard. It did look a little odd, but I didn't put that one on Dugo

 

Lots of Dugo haters. Funny they don't put Bogey under the microscope as much.

[redsoxrules]

Lots of Dugo haters. Funny they don't put Bogey under the microscope as much.

 

Watch the replay and you can't tell me was hustling for that ball.

 

Players today don't play hard like they used to. It's sad honestly.

[vegasbob]

Like yourself, I think I have seen a lot of baseball over decades. I watch the plays and replays and trust most of what I see. Dugo has in the past dogged it on occasion, but i think he was looking for a rebound off that paddded wall.

 

It makes, however, an absolute nothing burger because Whitlock got the 3 outs before orioles got 4 runs, so screw it.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Watch the replay and you can't tell me was hustling for that ball.

 

Players today don't play hard like they used to. It's sad honestly.

 

Not arguing that, but it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of Dugo haters on this forum.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Not arguing that, but it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of Dugo haters on this forum.

 

Maybe if those haters would accept the fact that Betts didn't want to play for the SOX, they would let up a little on Dugo.

Dislike the guy who left, not the guy who is actually producing for your team.

Edited August 20, 2022 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[moonslav59]

Maybe if those haters would accept the fact that Betts didn't want to play for the SOX, they would let up a little on Dugo.

Dislike the guy who left, not the guy who is actually producing for your team.

 

Yes, finally, he is!

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Yes, finally, he is!

 

In Dugo's 3 years in Boston he has a .290BA and a .771OPS. Being that you're a numbers' guy, your post makes no sense.

[vegasbob]

This site has turned, for no good reason , into the same 'civil war" as our politics so Fire Cora, Fire Bloom, Henry should sell out. All the players suck, or are the best ever. JDM is broken down, X is old and stiff, Devers never will amount to anything and is not worth a 2 month contract for $10,000, Sale is Freakin' or a grave robber , a closer is critical or doesn't matter, Story is a typical Colorado slacker. Duran Duran should stick to music or sucks at every opportunity . Dalbec, Cordero and Sanchex=z should be tied up in a ball of wax and lit on fire. Asswipe Houck can't close or last a season, but should be a starter and Whitlock should still be a Yankee if we didn't trade for Ottovino.

 

Get a hold of yourself guys and analyze what's going on. Sox either win tomorrow or this season is over.

[Maxbialystock]

My only concern about Wacha is his durability. No doubt he's a very good pitcher, but will he be available every 5th day? He's definitely worth taking a chance on going into the future. It ain't like the SOX have a closet full of talented young pitchers waiting in the wings.

 

A very fair assessment of Wacha.

 

That said, it is abundantly clear to me that the epidemic of pitching injuries this year is like freaking COVID. I read recently that the CDC has stated they think they mishandled COVID from the outset. If you ask me--and you didn't--I would say the Sox medical and training staff have been flat on their butts this year. Forget arms and hamstrings and broken fingers, and just look at all the guys with back problems.

[Maxbialystock]

You have given the same speel 125 times already, and that doesn’t change the fact that the Red Sox started out 10-19, and the backend of the BP was a reason why. Barnes was left off a postseason roster he was so good, and counting on him, and Robles to anchor the backend of the BP was not sound judgement. Experienced doesn’t mean being good, and those two are examples of that being the case.

 

It's the same spiel but with new evidence, which of course you choose to ignore.

 

Just for once--and I know you don't want to do this--address the specifics of what I said.

 

Once again, when Whitlock pitched in a game this year (before tonight), the Sox were 14-6. When Houck pitched, they were 20-11. To me those two very simple stats are incontestable evidence that both were well used.

 

I might add that your argument depends heavily on saying that the only inning that counts is the 9th inning, and that is just wrong. And it is especially wrong when the pitching staff as a whole has the 2d worst (14th out of 15 teams) ERA in the American League.

[Maxbialystock]

Maybe if those haters would accept the fact that Betts didn't want to play for the SOX, they would let up a little on Dugo.

Dislike the guy who left, not the guy who is actually producing for your team.

 

Mookie was to me unaffordable, and I seriously doubt that, if he had stayed, the Sox pitching would be any better. In case you haven't noticed, the Sox team ERA is the 2d worst in the AL.

 

As for Verdugo, last year we thought he was the steal of the century with his WAR of 2.2 and almost OK DWAR of -0.2. This year his WAR is +0.5 and his DWAR is -0.9, so I think we have a right to complain a little. Plus I don't happen to like that huge necklace he wears in the field.

 

On the other hand, the hitters, especially our "big three" of Bogey, Raffy, and JDM, are tanking, and we badly need Dugo's bat.

[Old Red]

It's the same spiel but with new evidence, which of course you choose to ignore.

 

Just for once--and I know you don't want to do this--address the specifics of what I said.

 

Once again, when Whitlock pitched in a game this year (before tonight), the Sox were 14-6. When Houck pitched, they were 20-11. To me those two very simple stats are incontestable evidence that both were well used.

 

I might add that your argument depends heavily on saying that the only inning that counts is the 9th inning, and that is just wrong. And it is especially wrong when the pitching staff as a whole has the 2d worst (14th out of 15 teams) ERA in the American League.

 

I have never said that the 9th inning is the only inning that counts, so why spread the FAKE NEWS? The Sox won today, so have a Gansett, and be happy. We have hashed this subject over 132 times now. Let’s move on.

[Maxbialystock]

I have never said that the 9th inning is the only inning that counts, so why spread the FAKE NEWS? The Sox won today, so have a Gansett, and be happy. We have hashed this subject over 132 times now. Let’s move on.

 

FAKE NEWS. My, my. If that isn't a tell, I don't know what is. Old Red, so appropriate. I now understand why you ignore specific points. When do you break out with "lock him up, lock him up, lock him up?!!?"

[Old Red]

FAKE NEWS. My, my. If that isn't a tell, I don't know what is. Old Red, so appropriate. I now understand why you ignore specific points. When do you break out with "lock him up, lock him up, lock him up?!!?"

 

Once again over analyzing, and 100% wrong. Move along little dawggy, move along. I know for sure that what you think is a tell is not no tell at all, but I’m sure you will put your spin on it to fit your concocted narrative. Would you had rather I said balderdash, and poppycock?

Edited August 21, 2022 by Old Red

[Maxbialystock]

Once again over analyzing, and 100% wrong. Move along little dawggy, move along. I know for sure that what you think is a tell is not no tell at all, but I’m sure you will put your spin on it to fit your concocted narrative.

 

Not over analyzing, just guessing. Glad I'm wrong.

 

But I'm not wrong about how Houck and Whitlock have been used this season. Yes, of course, I know you didn't explicitly say that the 9th inning is the only one that counts. But, when you ignore the fact that the Sox have been much more successful when Houck and Whitlock have been used in any capacity, including most of their games when they did not close, then I feel free to assert that implicitly the only inning that counts with you is the 9th. If that's unfair, then please tell me why you ignore that hard facts that the Sox are 14-6 in games in which Whitlock has pitched and 20-11 in games in which Houck has pitched.

 

Since this is a game thread, let's look at what happened tonight. I contend that the Wacha was the heart and soul of this win with 5.2 innings of shutout ball--and with some excellent assistance from Kike's 2 run dinger, 2 or more hits by Plawecki, Arroyo, Dugo, and JDM, etc. for a grand total of 4 runs.

 

We did not win because Schreiber and Whitlock were magnificent in relief even though Whitlock finally did get a save. The Sox were leading 3 to freaking nothing going into the 7th, and those two guys gave up 3 runs (but just 2 earned) and Whitlock got his save.

 

I'm not saying that happens all the time or even a lot. But I am saying that those earlier innings mean a lot in terms of game outcome, and it should not be considered obtuse for a manager to use a really good pitcher earlier in the game than the 9th inning. And that includes--guess what--even starting a game. Good starters get the big bucks because they eat innings. And the greatest closers in the history of MLB couldn't and still can't get a save if their team is behind in the 9th inning.

 

Yes, I agree Barnes and Robles stunk early on this season, but I have to remind you that neither Houck nor Whitlock had been a closer before this. Moreover, both were extremely useful last year when they pitched multiple innings on many outings. Houck even started. And it was a pretty good year.

 

And this year, I hasten to add for the umpteenth time, has not been a disappointment because Houck and Whitlock weren't made closers on day one--they were needed for other purposes--but because the pitching staff is the 2d worst in the AL, because the hitting has been inconsistent, because the outfield/1B defense has been lousy, as has the baserunning.

[Old Red]

Not over analyzing, just guessing. Glad I'm wrong.

 

But I'm not wrong about how Houck and Whitlock have been used this season. Yes, of course, I know you didn't explicitly say that the 9th inning is the only one that counts. But, when you ignore the fact that the Sox have been much more successful when Houck and Whitlock have been used in any capacity, including most of their games when they did not close, then I feel free to assert that implicitly the only inning that counts with you is the 9th. If that's unfair, then please tell me why you ignore that hard facts that the Sox are 14-6 in games in which Whitlock has pitched and 20-11 in games in which Houck has pitched.

 

Since this is a game thread, let's look at what happened tonight. I contend that the Wacha was the heart and soul of this win with 5.2 innings of shutout ball--and with some excellent assistance from Kike's 2 run dinger, 2 or more hits by Plawecki, Arroyo, Dugo, and JDM, etc. for a grand total of 4 runs.

 

We did not win because Schreiber and Whitlock were magnificent in relief even though Whitlock finally did get a save. The Sox were leading 3 to freaking nothing going into the 7th, and those two guys gave up 3 runs (but just 2 earned) and Whitlock got his save.

 

I'm not saying that happens all the time or even a lot. But I am saying that those earlier innings mean a lot in terms of game outcome, and it should not be considered obtuse for a manager to use a really good pitcher earlier in the game than the 9th inning. And that includes--guess what--even starting a game. Good starters get the big bucks because they eat innings. And the greatest closers in the history of MLB couldn't and still can't get a save if their team is behind in the 9th inning.

 

Yes, I agree Barnes and Robles stunk early on this season, but I have to remind you that neither Houck nor Whitlock had been a closer before this. Moreover, both were extremely useful last year when they pitched multiple innings on many outings. Houck even started. And it was a pretty good year.

 

And this year, I hasten to add for the umpteenth time, has not been a disappointment because Houck and Whitlock weren't made closers on day one--they were needed for other purposes--but because the pitching staff is the 2d worst in the AL, because the hitting has been inconsistent, because the outfield/1B defense has been lousy, as has the baserunning.

 

I admitted you make lots of valid points, but my overall opinion hasn’t changed, but for the sake of no more back, and forth you get the last word. Remember I said you have a lot of valid points, and I’ll just leave it at that.

[jad]

Maybe if those haters would accept the fact that Betts didn't want to play for the SOX, they would let up a little on Dugo.

Dislike the guy who left, not the guy who is actually producing for your team.

 

What's Mookie's statement on how he did not want to play for the Sox. I missed it.

[Bellhorn04]

This site has turned, for no good reason , into the same 'civil war" as our politics so Fire Cora, Fire Bloom, Henry should sell out. All the players suck, or are the best ever. JDM is broken down, X is old and stiff, Devers never will amount to anything and is not worth a 2 month contract for $10,000, Sale is Freakin' or a grave robber , a closer is critical or doesn't matter, Story is a typical Colorado slacker. Duran Duran should stick to music or sucks at every opportunity . Dalbec, Cordero and Sanchex=z should be tied up in a ball of wax and lit on fire. Asswipe Houck can't close or last a season, but should be a starter and Whitlock should still be a Yankee if we didn't trade for Ottovino.

 

Get a hold of yourself guys and analyze what's going on. Sox either win tomorrow or this season is over.

 

I like your style , Vegas.

[Bellhorn04]

Not arguing that, but it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of Dugo haters on this forum.

 

There are also Cora haters, I hear.

 

Seems like everyone has someone to hate.

[Old Red]

There are also Cora haters, I hear.

 

Seems like everyone has someone to hate.

 

That hate word is a pretty strong word, and used to often, and has been known to be wrong on here.

[Bellhorn04]

That hate word is a pretty strong word, and used to often, and has been known to be wrong on here.

 

The word hate is used pretty loosely when it comes to Sox management and players. What it usually means is "get this guy off my team".

[notin]

What's Mookie's statement on how he did not want to play for the Sox. I missed it.

 

“Get me outta Boston!” - Mookie Betts, 2019…

[Maxbialystock]

I admitted you make lots of valid points, but my overall opinion hasn’t changed, but for the sake of no more back, and forth you get the last word. Remember I said you have a lot of valid points, and I’ll just leave it at that.

 

Fine. I have said repeatedly that good closers have made a real difference for the Sox in past seasons, so I am certainly not against them. I just think this season and this pitching staff are way different from the norm, largely because of injuries. So, while I readily agree that Cora's managing has been out of the box, I also think it was called for.

 

I believe that traditional closers are carefully managed and rarely go 2 innings and even more rarely pitch earlier in a game than the 8th or 9th inning.

 

The top six closers (based on saves) in MLB have 29, 28, 28, 28, and 27 saves and have averaged innings/games as follows: 42 games/37 innings; 54/51; 43/43; 46/46; 49/48; and 48/48. Like I said, one inning marvels.

 

Since he returned to the bullpen, Whitlock has pitched 11 games and 20 innings. In August he has pitched in 5 games for 9.2 innings. As Marty Feldstein once famously said, that's "Abby Normal." But it has worked. More than that, it's been necessary because the Sox pitching is so woeful.

[Bellhorn04]

“Get me outta Boston!” - Mookie Betts, 2019…

 

There was also this one:

 

"$300 million? You guys must be high. In honor of which, here's my counter-offer: $420 million. Put that in your pipe and smoke it."