A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[moonslav59]

Looking at our 2023 rotation:

 

1.) sale - can he finally stay healthy.

2.) pivetta - when he is on, he is on. When he is off, he is really bad.

3.) Bello - when he gets through the growing pains, he could be really good!

4.) Crawford - can be effective, when his command and control are on. But his stuff leaves no margin for error.

5.) Winkowski, mata, Walter, or free agent.

 

1) He can't

2) He's a number 4.

3) Maybe he's a number 5.

4) Probably better as a long man.

5) Stock is falling fast.

 

The 2023 Rotation:

1. ______

2. Sale and Paxton combined

3. Wacha on a QO

4. Pivetta

5. Whitlock/Bello/others

 

[jacksonianmarch]

1) He can't

2) He's a number 4.

3) Maybe he's a number 5.

4) Probably better as a long man.

5) Stock is falling fast.

 

The 2023 Rotation:

1. ______

2. Sale and Paxton combined

3. Wacha on a QO

4. Pivetta

5. Whitlock/Bello/others

 

 

Paxton is always hurt. Always.

Sale is always hurt as well

Wacha is not going for the QO. He will get a bigger offer than you think from a team craving pitching. It might be in Boston, but I doubt it's on the QO

Whitlock is not a starter. Don't treat him as one. He's an elite level reliever. He's a terrible starter

[iortiz]

My priorities would be in this order:

 

Lock Devers

1 Elite SP

1 Solid No. 3 SP

1B

3 solid RP

 

 

If so, I will call it offseason

[moonslav59]

My priorities would be in this order:

 

Lock Devers

1 Elite SP

1 Solid No. 3 SP

1B

3 solid RP

 

 

If so, I will call it offseason

 

So fixing an OF of Duran, Dugo and Refsnyder doesn't crack the top 5?

[moonslav59]

Paxton is always hurt. Always.

Sale is always hurt as well

Wacha is not going for the QO. He will get a bigger offer than you think from a team craving pitching. It might be in Boston, but I doubt it's on the QO

Whitlock is not a starter. Don't treat him as one. He's an elite level reliever. He's a terrible starter

 

I want Houck as our 2023 closer and Whitlock as out long/set-up man.

 

What I listed is what I think the Sox plan might be.

 

BTW, while Whitlock has not been great in all of 9 career starts, a 4.12 ERA is not "terrible."

[iortiz]

So fixing an OF of Duran, Dugo and Refsnyder doesn't crack the top 5?

 

well it speaks volumes about my top 5 lol

 

Believe it or not I don't dislike that much that combo. Dugo is oks and above average in my book. Ref has potential and Duran is an athletic kid and will take lessons learned.

[moonslav59]

well it speaks volumes about my top 5 lol

 

Believe it or not I don't dislike that much that combo. Dugo is oks and above average in my book. Ref has potential and Duran is an athletic kid and will take lessons learned.

 

My top 5:

 

1. Elite SP

2. CF

3. SS

4. RF

5. #3/4 SP (Close call w C and 1B/DH)

 

I'd rather take my chances with Casas, Hosmer & Dalbec at 1B than Duran in CF.

I have no faith Arroyo can stay healthy, and apparently Story is not moving to SS.

I like Refsnyder as a 4th OF'er but not as my FT RF'er.

Then pen should be okay, if we fix the rotation enough that Houck and Whitlock never have to start.

[iortiz]

My top 5:

 

1. Elite SP

2. CF

3. SS

4. RF

5. #3/4 SP (Close call w C and 1B/DH)

 

I'd rather take my chances with Casas, Hosmer & Dalbec at 1B than Duran in CF.

I have no faith Arroyo can stay healthy, and apparently Story is not moving to SS.

I like Refsnyder as a 4th OF'er but not as my FT RF'er.

Then pen should be okay, if we fix the rotation enough that Houck and Whitlock never have to start.

 

I like this approach as well.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Trade for Steven Kwan to play outfield and Luis Arraez to play first -- two guys who actually have more walks than strikeouts.

 

In last night's loss, the Red Sox were 3-for-20 with runners in scoring position. Was that three hits -- or three times they actually made contact with the baseball?!@#$%^&&*()_+

[notin]

I have my doubts “elite SP” is a realistic target.

 

For one thing, I’m guessing it sounds like a rare commodity that’s difficult to acquire. For another, injuries or not, the Sox made some of those moves last off-season.

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sox cobbled together a rotation from Sale, Paxton, Pivetta, Wacha (hopefully), Whitlock, Crawford, and Bello while still having Winckowski, Mata, Ward, and a few others ready in the minors for depth. Focus more on the bullpen, hopefully 3 new arms. Headlined by Michael Fulmer.

 

Not sure why people think Story “can’t” return to SS. Whether or not he should is another matter, but is there some reason he just is physically unable to?

 

As for the rest of the lineup - the need probably 2b, 2 OF and a DH. DH might wind up being Casas. And Enmanuel Valdez might even be in the mix for 2b. But with no close OFs, I hope the Sox focus on players with good OBP and defense…

[notin]

And extend Devers…

[JDavis76]

And extend Devers…

 

Provided he has a desire to remain in beantowne.....

[moonslav59]

I have my doubts “elite SP” is a realistic target.

 

For one thing, I’m guessing it sounds like a rare commodity that’s difficult to acquire. For another, injuries or not, the Sox made some of those moves last off-season.

 

Difficult, yes, but we've seen a lot of teams trade their #1's and 2's, recently. It doesn't have to be Pedro, but please, no Berrios types.

[notin]

Difficult, yes, but we've seen a lot of teams trade their #1's and 2's, recently. It doesn't have to be Pedro, but please, no Berrios types.

 

Hugh did like Alcantara, which would be great. IMO right team, wrong pitcher. Alcantara is probably not available, since they just extended him to a VERY reasonable 5 yr $56mill extension.

 

Pedro Lopez and Sixto Sanchez are probably more available…

[notin]

Provided he has a desire to remain in beantowne.....

 

Most ball players go where the money is. If the Sox meet his price, he’ll stay…

[Bellhorn04]

Paxton is always hurt. Always.

Sale is always hurt as well

Wacha is not going for the QO. He will get a bigger offer than you think from a team craving pitching. It might be in Boston, but I doubt it's on the QO

Whitlock is not a starter. Don't treat him as one. He's an elite level reliever. He's a terrible starter

 

"Terrible" seems a bit excessive.

[notin]

"Terrible" seems a bit excessive.

 

His 4.12 in 9 career starts does put him a lot closer to Mike Maddux than to Greg, but I’m not sure I’d call him “terrible.”

 

If that’s terrible, then what adjective describes Gerrit Cole and his 4.60 ERA since the All Star break?

[moonslav59]

His 4.12 in 9 career starts does put him a lot closer to Mike Maddux than to Greg, but I’m not sure I’d call him “terrible.”

 

If that’s terrible, then what adjective describes Gerrit Cole and his 4.60 ERA since the All Star break?

 

Oh NO! You DIH-ENT!

[notin]

Difficult, yes, but we've seen a lot of teams trade their #1's and 2's, recently. It doesn't have to be Pedro, but please, no Berrios types.

 

Best bets are arbitration eligible pitchers on low budget, non-competitive teams.

 

That makes the most likely candidates to be Pedro Lopez and Jesus Luzardo, from what I can see…

[moonslav59]

Best bets are arbitration eligible pitchers on low budget, non-competitive teams.

 

That makes the most likely candidates to be Pedro Lopez and Jesus Luzardo, from what I can see…

 

Those are two I have targeted on BTV. I'm not sure either will be an "ace type," but both are promising enough to be counted on as solid #2s or 3's (maybe 4 for Luzardo.)

[harmony]

Best bets are arbitration eligible pitchers on low budget, non-competitive teams.

 

That makes the most likely candidates to be Pedro Lopez and Jesus Luzardo, from what I can see…

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lopezpe01.shtml

 

More likely 26-year-old righthander Pablo Lopez, whom the Seattle Mariners traded to the Marlins with three others in 2017 for reliever David Phelps.

 

Yikes.

[notin]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/lopezpe01.shtml

 

More likely 26-year-old righthander Pablo Lopez, whom the Seattle Mariners traded to the Marlins with three others in 2017 for reliever David Phelps.

 

Yikes.

 

 

He lets some of us call him Pedro…

[notin]

Those are two I have targeted on BTV. I'm not sure either will be an "ace type," but both are promising enough to be counted on as solid #2s or 3's (maybe 4 for Luzardo.)

 

 

Don’t get hung up on pitching roles.

 

The team just needs to target the best pitchers they can afford (via either cash or prospects) and let the roles work themselves out.

 

And the whole 1-2-3-4-5 nomenclature for pitchers is a bit silly to me. I’ve been asking for years on multiple forums what an ace is. No one seems to know…

Edited August 26, 2022 by notin

[moonslav59]

Don’t get hung up on pitching roles.

 

The team just needs to target the best pitchers they can afford (via either ash or prospects) and let the roles work themselves out.

 

And the whole 1-2-3-4-5 nomenclature for pitchers is a bit silly to me. I’ve been asking for years on multiple forums what an ace is. No one seems to know…

 

I'd be thrilled to get either or both of these guys, and getting a solid #2, 3 or even 4 is always a good thing.

 

Luzardo is a question mark, to some degree, but no more so than many we have, right now in our system.

[notin]

I'd be thrilled to get either or both of these guys, and getting a solid #2, 3 or even 4 is always a good thing.

 

Luzardo is a question mark, to some degree, but no more so than many we have, right now in our system.

 

 

Luzardo would be our top pitching prospect. Assuming he wasn’t already in Fenway…

[moonslav59]

Luzardo would be our top pitching prospect. Assuming he wasn’t already in Fenway…

 

Yes, nobody on a farm has fewer questions.

[Bellhorn04]

Don’t get hung up on pitching roles.

 

The team just needs to target the best pitchers they can afford (via either cash or prospects) and let the roles work themselves out.

 

And the whole 1-2-3-4-5 nomenclature for pitchers is a bit silly to me. I’ve been asking for years on multiple forums what an ace is. No one seems to know…

 

From what I've gathered, most people only consider an ace a guy who's on a Hall of Fame track.

[dgalehouse]

Generally, you have a rotation of five starters. Depending on health , they will all start roughly the same number of games. Assigning a number to each of them is meaningless. And calling one the " ace " means little either.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Generally, you have a rotation of five starters. Depending on health , they will all start roughly the same number of games. Assigning a number to each of them is meaningless. And calling one the " ace " means little either.

 

Buchholz tried it in 2015, making "He's the ACE" t-shirts for everyone in the rotation... which included Porcello, Masterson, Miley and Joe Kelly (then a starter).

 

The joke was that none of them was the ace. Fans weren't laughing when they came in last place.

 

That winter, Dombrowski gave more money to Price than all five of them combined. Some of us still aren't laughing about that one, either.

[moonslav59]

From what I've gathered, most people only consider an ace a guy who's on a Hall of Fame track.

 

Some view the ace as the best starter on each staff, so there could be 30 aces in MLB, but IMO, some have 2+ "aces."