A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[Maxbialystock]

Rookies Jarren Duran (leadoff) and Jeter Downs (No. 9 hitter) went a combined 0-for-7 with five strikeouts.

 

Franchy Cordero went 0-for-4 with two strikeouts and left five men on base. He’s 0-for-21 with 17 strikeouts in his past seven

 

Isn't it time to give up on Cordero?

 

Develop pitchers and buy position players?

 

Those comments are vicious and uncalled for. This very brave Sox team finally can see the end of the tunnel. I don't mean they will start winning--that's simply asking for too much.

 

But tonight they showed they can reasonably expect to lose by less than 10 runs.

[moonslav59]

We will likely see a lot of Duran, Downs, Cordero, Dalbec and Refsnyder, the rest of the way.

 

For some, the decision about what to expect going forward is as close to being made, but maybe they get one last long look. For others, like Refsnyder and some of our younger pitchers, maybe we'll get a good chance to improve our read on their a bility to match up with major leaguers.

[MADSTORK]

We will likely see a lot of Duran, Downs, Cordero, Dalbec and Refsnyder, the rest of the way.

 

For some, the decision about what to expect going forward is as close to being made, but maybe they get one last long look. For others, like Refsnyder and some of our younger pitchers, maybe we'll get a good chance to improve our read on their a bility to match up with major leaguers.

 

Refsnyder is 32 years old bye bye

Far as the other beer leaguers Cordero Dalbec both with some power and perhaps Duran with his speed might fetch a few low level prospects at the deadline

Downs is a complete bust BUT since the Betts deal brought back zero return no reason not to play the bust and maybe you get lucky?

 

Casas to 1B see if he has the tools at the mlb level in a few weeks

 

Fast fact, since Orlando has been in control Bullpen has 46 blown saves, Priceless!

Edited July 24, 2022 by MADSTORK

[oldtimer]

We will likely see a lot of Duran, Downs, Cordero, Dalbec and Refsnyder, the rest of the way.

 

For some, the decision about what to expect going forward is as close to being made, but maybe they get one last long look. For others, like Refsnyder and some of our younger pitchers, maybe we'll get a good chance to improve our read on their a bility to match up with major leaguers.

My take on the players that you mention:

 

Duran - I was a supporter for a long while, thinking his speed was valuable, especially if he could hit anything like his minor league example. First time up he was extremely strikeout prone. The second time up he was better about pitch selection but his swing is long and he isn't getting hits out of his contact. His shaky defense hasn't improved. At his age, it appears we need to look elsewhere.

 

Downs - He has shown defensive abilities but hasn't hit in the minors and is lost in the majors. Perhaps we should give him additional time in thee minors and see if the lightbulb comes on. Otherwise, he is no major leaguer.

 

Cordero - Some power but a very poor hitter who is also a very poor defender. Let's move on as he is not going to help the team to be competitive.

 

Dalbec - He has power and has had his moments but doesn't appear to see the ball that well. He has had enough time to demonstrate his hitting which is not good. He is a still defender at first an doesn't move well enough at first. Another guy that we should move on from.

 

Refsnyder - He is an older guy who couldn't make it with other teams. Of the lot he appears to be the best, but a utility role should be his limit. Good enough to hang around with a low salary commitment.

 

 

We don't have much time to wait before the trade deadline and we see what Bloom is intending to do. Probably sell. If that is the case, why not bring up Casas and others and jettison those that won't be with the club next season. Perhaps that causes a money issue that I don't understand, otherwise bringing up prospects and getting a look makes sense. If we can make a decent trade for a ML player or prospects, fine. Let's start looking to 2023 and beyond.

[notin]

Refsnyder is 32 years old bye bye

Far as the other beer leaguers Cordero Dalbec both with some power and perhaps Duran with his speed might fetch a few low level prospects at the deadline

Downs is a complete bust BUT since the Betts deal brought back zero return no reason not to play the bust and maybe you get lucky?

 

Casas to 1B see if he has the tools at the mlb level in a few weeks

 

Fast fact, since Orlando has been in control Bullpen has 46 blown saves, Priceless!

 

Actually 56 blown saves.

 

Of course your precious Yankees have 48 blown saves in that same time frame.

 

It probably doesn’t help your statement that you have no idea what a blown save is…

[moonslav59]

My take on the players that you mention:

 

Duran - I was a supporter for a long while, thinking his speed was valuable, especially if he could hit anything like his minor league example. First time up he was extremely strikeout prone. The second time up he was better about pitch selection but his swing is long and he isn't getting hits out of his contact. His shaky defense hasn't improved. At his age, it appears we need to look elsewhere.

 

Downs - He has shown defensive abilities but hasn't hit in the minors and is lost in the majors. Perhaps we should give him additional time in thee minors and see if the lightbulb comes on. Otherwise, he is no major leaguer.

 

Cordero - Some power but a very poor hitter who is also a very poor defender. Let's move on as he is not going to help the team to be competitive.

 

Dalbec - He has power and has had his moments but doesn't appear to see the ball that well. He has had enough time to demonstrate his hitting which is not good. He is a still defender at first an doesn't move well enough at first. Another guy that we should move on from.

 

Refsnyder - He is an older guy who couldn't make it with other teams. Of the lot he appears to be the best, but a utility role should be his limit. Good enough to hang around with a low salary commitment.

 

 

We don't have much time to wait before the trade deadline and we see what Bloom is intending to do. Probably sell. If that is the case, why not bring up Casas and others and jettison those that won't be with the club next season. Perhaps that causes a money issue that I don't understand, otherwise bringing up prospects and getting a look makes sense. If we can make a decent trade for a ML player or prospects, fine. Let's start looking to 2023 and beyond.

 

I don't have much faith in any of these guys, except for maybe Refsnyder, who deserves a longer look, in hopes he's a late bloomer with more in the tank.

 

I'm just saying, these guys will play out the season to see, if there is a glimmer of hope to hold onto one or two of them, perhaps just a little longer. If Casas was ready, maybe Dalbec and Cordero would play less, but I'm not sure we'll see Casas, this summer.

 

I'd like to see Fitzy, Wong, R Hern, Stewart and some pitchers like German and maybe Murphy & Groome for a bit.

 

[Kimmi]

As always, I protest starting this thread halfway through the 2022 season.

[JDavis76]

As always, I protest starting this thread halfway through the 2022 season.

 

I was hoping that the sox would play decent until the deadline and then show their true colors. This way they wouldn't do what's in their best interest and trade the expiring contracts.

 

But part of me likes to see moonslob waiving the white flag already......

Edited July 24, 2022 by JDavis76

[Nick]

I'm watching today...Bello is making his third start. He's started twice vs the Rays and now the Jays. Welcome to big leagues.

 

6 more years of team control

Winckowski

Cutter

Bello

 

Matta no doubt will join this group in 2023.

 

I like it.

[Bellhorn04]

But part of me likes to see moonslob waiving the white flag already......

 

Yet another unprovoked attack.

[moonslav59]

As always, I protest starting this thread halfway through the 2022 season.

 

It was a tough choice, but I feel like talking about next year has risen above talking about this year.

 

I have not totally given up on this year, but I'm thinking way more about 2023 and beyond than the upcoming playoffs and our chances of making them.

[JDavis76]

Yet another unprovoked attack.

 

Nonsense, even though he has me blocked, he still feels the need to comment about me daily.

 

But he's your butt buddy, so I know you will always defend him.......

[Bellhorn04]

Nonsense, even though he has me blocked, he still feels the need to comment about me daily.

 

But he's your butt buddy, so I know you will always defend him.......

 

Butt buddy. Not surprising that's where you take it.

[Bellhorn04]

Nonsense, even though he has me blocked, he still feels the need to comment about me daily.

 

But he's your butt buddy, so I know you will always defend him.......

 

That's ******** about him commenting about you, too. You're a liar.

[moonslav59]

To go back to the first post: I may be naive or overly optimistic, but I think this looks like a solid core or players and prospects to build upon. I had left some prospects off the list. Here is the updated version of our 2023 and beyond foundation...

 

SP: _____, Sale, Pivetta, Paxton, Winckowski

Crawford, Bello, Mata, Seabold, Groome, Walter, Murphy, Gonzalez, TWard

 

RP: Houck, Whitlock, Schreiber, _____, Taylor, Davis, Brasier

German, Danish, DHern

 

C: _____, Wong

R Hernandez, Cottam, Hickey

 

1B: _____, Dalbec/Cordero

Casas, Cordero or Dalbec, Jordan, Kavadas

 

2B: Story

Yorke, Paulino

 

3B: Devers

Binelas

 

SS: ______, Downs

Mayer, Lugo, Bonaci

 

LF: Verdugo, Duran

 

CF: ______

Rafaela, Koss

 

RF: Refsnyder

Jimenez, McDonough

 

If we spend $95-110M, this winter, I think we can maybe get better than we are, now, while maintaining an even brighter longer term outlook as our farm hands continue to impress and grow.

 

Between Mayer, Casas, Rafaela, Yorke, Bleis, Kavadas, Hickey, Paulino, Binelas, Jordan and others, I think we will have enough farm infusions, spread out, over the next 1-4 years that will allow us to spend more at other key positions.

 

We've heard a lot about the failure of our farm to produce top pitchers, and those ideas are not unfounded, but there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel, as well as already getting some promising results from Houck, Whitlock, Winckowski, Crawford and others.

 

All we need are 2-3 significant contributions from a large amount of promising young pitchers beyond Houck & Whitlock:

 

Winckowski

Crawford

Bello

Mata

Walter

Murphy

Seabold

Gonzalez

German

 

or from some longer shots like...

Song

Groome

T Ward

Drohan

Bastardo

Uberstine

 

I'm still very hopeful about the 2023 team, but more so about 2024 and beyond.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, moon, I'm glad you're still hopeful about 2023.

[moonslav59]

Well, moon, I'm glad you're still hopeful about 2023.

 

Each loss brings a sliver of a sliver.

[mvp 78]

That's ******** about him commenting about you, too. You're a liar.

 

Why do you bother with this guy?

[Larry Cook]

A part of 2023 will be determined based on what hang’em Chaim does at the trade deadline.

 

I would love to see him move everybody on an expiring contract that he can.

 

Another “must have” for 2023 is Hang’em Chaim must learn how to stock a bullpen with guys with mlb arms. Not having quality bullpen arms cost us severally this year and may have indirectly contributed to some of the starters getting hurt as the starters over did it knowing we had turds in the pen.

[moonslav59]

A part of 2023 will be determined based on what hang’em Chaim does at the trade deadline.

 

I would love to see him move everybody on an expiring contract that he can.

 

Another “must have” for 2023 is Hang’em Chaim must learn how to stock a bullpen with guys with mlb arms. Not having quality bullpen arms cost us severally this year and may have indirectly contributed to some of the starters getting hurt as the starters over did it knowing we had turds in the pen.

 

Move all 9 free agents-to-be, unless Bogey invokes his no trade and makes it 8.

 

If he can get a bag of balls for Arroyo, Cordero, Brasier, Diekman and Barnes (1 more year of team control or more), do it.

 

Offer to pay most or all of their remaining contracts to sweeten the return, but just rid of the scrub-a-duds.

[moonslav59]

This is the core you build around:

 

Devers forevers

Story because it's a 5 sequal storybook made for a movie

Sale because we can't trade him

Whitlock because he's damn good

Houck because he's pretty damn good

Pivetta because we need a solid 3rd/4th starter

Schreiber (who-da-thunk?)

Refsnyder (pretty sad he's up this high)

Paxton's wing a prayer

Verdugo or Duran but not both

Taylor

 

The Kids:

SP: Winckowski, Crawford, Bello, Mata, Walter, Murphy (maybe Seabold, Groome, Gonzalez, TWard or Song)

RP: German and some failed starters

C: Wong, RHern, Cottam & Hickey

1B: Casas, Jordan, Kavadas

2B: Yorke, Paulino

3B: Binelas

SS: Mayer, Lugo, Bonaci

LF: McDonough, Koss

CF: Rafaela

RF: Jimenez

[Bellhorn04]

Why do you bother with this guy?

 

I don't like trolls coming in here, attacking other posters and getting a free pass for it.

[moonslav59]

I don't like trolls coming in here, attacking other posters and getting a free pass for it.

 

I used to think that way, too, but they only seek to stir people up and get reactions.

 

Our responses are not getting through to the trolls, and in fact, they only cause- them to continue. They seek the attention their mommies never gave them.

 

If we totally ignore them, they will go away, which is what we all ultimately want.

[mvp 78]

I don't like trolls coming in here, attacking other posters and getting a free pass for it.

 

The free pass is not having an active mod team.

[Nick]

Red Sox looking to 'turn it around' after costly defensive miscues

July 24th, 2022

 

Betelhem Ashame

 

@betelhem_ashame

 

Pretty appropriate that Ms. Ashame wrote this article.

[JDavis76]

That's ******** about him commenting about you, too. You're a liar.

 

No, he certainly does, you are full of s***.

[Bellhorn04]

The free pass is not having an active mod team.

 

Yes.

[JDavis76]

The free pass is not having an active mod team.

 

What difference would that make? I have not broken any rules.

[Bellhorn04]

I used to think that way, too, but they only seek to stir people up and get reactions.

 

Our responses are not getting through to the trolls, and in fact, they only cause- them to continue. They seek the attention their mommies never gave them.

 

If we totally ignore them, they will go away, which is what we all ultimately want.

 

I'm going to do my best to follow your advice starting today. Let's see how I do.

[JDavis76]

I used to think that way, too, but they only seek to stir people up and get reactions.

 

Our responses are not getting through to the trolls, and in fact, they only cause- them to continue. They seek the attention their mommies never gave them.

 

If we totally ignore them, they will go away, which is what we all ultimately want.

 

More moonslop, Freud you are not.....