6/28 @ Cleveland

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Hopefully the SOX will start getting production from the 3 & 4 hitters in the line-up. Their past history says that should happen.

 

Past history wouldn't lie, would it?

[JDavis76]

Past history wouldn't lie, would it?

 

In the stock market they always have the disclaimer "Past performance is not indicative of future results"

[Maxbialystock]

Your arguments are as weak as Cora’s when he was asked why he thought Danish was the right guy to try, and get a 6 out save.

 

What argument? I mistook TylerD for D-Money, and I was still half right.

 

As for Cora on Danish, I don't doubt that was a hard sale. He gave up the hard single and the walk. Then Robles gave up two singles, and the Jays scored 2 runs in the 9th without making an out. One weak excuse for Robles is that both singles were grounders away from the shifts, which the Jays did a lot of tonight and the Sox not so much.

 

Funny thing you are all over Cora, who had to replace his leadoff hitter and closer--neither of whom made it to Toronto. He replaced Duran with Refsnyder, but couldn't replace Houck who, guess what, has all five of the Sox most recent saves!!

 

On the other hand, he did stay with Wacha through five innings and 90 pitches, did bring in Brasier, Schreiber, and Danish who each pitched a scoreless inning in relief, and did have Refsnyder at the right place in the lineup, good for 2 hits and 3 rbi's.

 

So, if his big mistake was not using a guy who was on the freaking IL--an argument someone else (not you) made, I'd say he did OK.

[Maxbialystock]

Lots of guys have never been a closer before they became a closer. That’s a weak argument that you keep using over, and over.

 

Of course they have. But usually, they work their way toward closing by relieving in middle than later innings. Someone else said that's what Schreiber has been doing, and I think he is far better prepared to close than Whitlock. Indeed, he did pitch a decent 7th tonight. Before you say, "gotcha, Schreiber should have close," allow me to remind you that the Sox bullpen tonight needed to pitch four scoreless innings to get the win/save. Cora simply ran out of good relievers, which would not have happened if freaking Houck had been vaccinated.

 

Also, why are we talking about a potential closer who wasn't used tonight, not because Cora is clueless, but because Whitlock is on the IL???!!!

[Maxbialystock]

You think if Whitlock was in the Bulpen tonight like he was last year it would have made no difference? This is where he was shining last last year all year long

 

Whitlock is on the IL. Why are you insisting he should have been called upon tonight?

[redsoxrules]

Whitlock is on the IL. Why are you insisting he should have been called upon tonight?

 

Holy f*** , how many times do I have to explain myself. HE PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE INJURED IF HE WOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT IN THE BULLPEN. THEREFOR WOULD HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE TONIGHT.

[Maxbialystock]

We are talking about this because he may not have been injured if he was left in the bullpen. Being a starter is a much heavier workload.

 

"May" won't wash. Relievers go on the IL at least as often as starters. Whitlock has the repertoire to start, and Cora badly needed a starter with Sale out. Whitlock never closed last year. Schreiber this year has demonstrated he is far more suited to close than Whitlock and in fact pitched tonight. Houck is also a better choice and in fact has the Sox last five saves, but has opted not to play in Toronto for his own selfish reasons--which you no doubt also blame on Cora.

[Maxbialystock]

Holy f*** , how many times do I have to explain myself. HE PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE INJURED IF HE WOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT IN THE BULLPEN. THEREFOR WOULD HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE TONIGHT.

 

See above. Relievers go on the IL as often as starters. So, not only are you relying on a hypothetical, but a flimsy one at that. Plus you are ignoring that Cora needed a starter and that Whitlock is well suited to be a starter.

 

To become a closer, it is customary to go through a process similar to what Schreiber has been doing. Indeed, Schreiber has demonstrated far more potential to close than has Whitlock and in fact pitched tonight.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[JDavis76]

"May" won't wash. Relievers go on the IL at least as often as starters. Whitlock has the repertoire to start, and Cora badly needed a starter with Sale out. Whitlock never closed last year. Schreiber this year has demonstrated he is far more suited to close than Whitlock and in fact pitched tonight. Houck is also a better choice and in fact has the Sox last five saves, but has opted not to play in Toronto for his own selfish reasons--which you no doubt also blame on Cora.

Didn't whitlock pitch in some high leverage relief innings last year?

[Maxbialystock]

We are talking about this because he may not have been injured if he was left in the bullpen. Being a starter is a much heavier workload.

 

Whitlock has pitched 49 innings, Houck 47, so I guess Houck's arm is about to fall off.

[Maxbialystock]

Didn't whitlock pitch in some high leverage relief innings last year?

 

I think he did because he was really good. He had one save in two save opportunities, which does not suggest he was prime closer material. He did have 14 holds and, unusual for a reliever, he pitched 73 innings in 46 games. Last year Houck started 13 games and only pitched 69 innings. Ottavino pitched 62 innings in 69 games, which is more typical of a reliever than Whitlock's 73 innings in 46 games.

 

Thus my assumption that even last year they were thinking Whitlock had starter potential because he has such a good repertoire. I'm certainly no expert, but I think the best relievers normally rely on just two very good pitches that complement each other.

[redsoxrules]

"May" won't wash. Relievers go on the IL at least as often as starters. Whitlock has the repertoire to start, and Cora badly needed a starter with Sale out. Whitlock never closed last year. Schreiber this year has demonstrated he is far more suited to close than Whitlock and in fact pitched tonight. Houck is also a better choice and in fact has the Sox last five saves, but has opted not to play in Toronto for his own selfish reasons--which you no doubt also blame on Cora.

 

Yeah cause I've said that 🙄 . Houck is not playing because he didn't want to get vaccinated which I've said earlier in the thread. You probably think JBJ should play everyday and hit leadoff. See what I did there

[redsoxrules]

Last 3 games of the year are in Toronto. Can you imagine we play them with the last wild card up for grabs. Or better yet have to play the Jay's in the playoffs in Toronto for a winner take all. Bloom can't sit on this and needs to assume this is a likely scenario and make a move.

[Old Red]

See above. Relievers go on the IL as often as starters. So, not only are you relying on a hypothetical, but a flimsy one at that. Plus you are ignoring that Cora needed a starter and that Whitlock is well suited to be a starter.

 

To become a closer, it is customary to go through a process similar to what Schreiber has been doing. Indeed, Schreiber has demonstrated far more potential to close than has Whitlock and in fact pitched tonight.

 

Weak, weak argument.

[Old Red]

Of course they have. But usually, they work their way toward closing by relieving in middle than later innings. Someone else said that's what Schreiber has been doing, and I think he is far better prepared to close than Whitlock. Indeed, he did pitch a decent 7th tonight. Before you say, "gotcha, Schreiber should have close," allow me to remind you that the Sox bullpen tonight needed to pitch four scoreless innings to get the win/save. Cora simply ran out of good relievers, which would not have happened if freaking Houck had been vaccinated.

 

Also, why are we talking about a potential closer who wasn't used tonight, not because Cora is clueless, but because Whitlock is on the IL???!!!

 

The LAST guy that should have been in the game in that situation was Robles, and yet Cora put him in there. Schreiber should have pitched the 9th, and not the 7th, and if anyone was going to try to get a 6 out save last night it should have been Schreiber, and not the Great Danish. I’m not even talking about Whitlock.

[Bellhorn04]

The LAST guy that should have been in the game in that situation was Robles, and yet Cora put him in there. Schreiber should have pitched the 9th, and not the 7th, and if anyone was going to try to get a 6 out save last night it should have been Schreiber, and not the Great Danish. I’m not even talking about Whitlock.

 

Cora said he wanted Schreiber in the 7th to face the meat of the Jays order.

[Old Red]

Cora said he wanted Schreiber in the 7th to face the meat of the Jays order.

 

The top of the order was also coming up in the 9th, and like I said earlier that the only way Robles comes into that situation is if he was the last man standing.

[Bellhorn04]

The top of the order was also coming up in the 9th, and like I said earlier that the only way Robles comes into that situation is if he was the last man standing.

 

Right, but Schreiber couldn't pitch the 7th, 8th and 9th.

 

Cora did what he could, but Houck's absence killed him.

[Old Red]

Right, but Schreiber couldn't pitch the 7th, 8th and 9th.

 

Cora did what he could, but Houck's absence killed him.

 

At the very least Schreiber could have gone 2 innings. When Tom Caron, and the NESN post game crew question Cora’s moves then you know he must of messed up. Bringing Robles into the game at that point to me wasn’t all Cora could do.

[Bellhorn04]

At the very least Schreiber could have gone 2 innings. When Tom Caron, and the NESN post game crew question Cora’s moves then you know he must of messed up. Bringing Robles into the game at that point to me wasn’t all Cora could do.

 

If Scheiber pitched the 7th and 8th you're still left with Danish and Robles to pitch the 9th.

 

Nothing wrong with questioning the moves, but I think Cora had legit reasons for what he did.

[Old Red]

If Scheiber pitched the 7th and 8th you're still left with Danish and Robles to pitch the 9th.

 

Nothing wrong with questioning the moves, but I think Cora had legit reasons for what he did.

 

Who would you rather see try to pitch 2 innings Danish, or Schreiber? If the plan was for Danish to pitch the 8th, and 9th last night, and Schreiber only pitch the 7th then I think that was a flawed plan at best.

[Bellhorn04]

Who would you rather see try to pitch 2 innings Danish, or Schreiber? If the plan was for Danish to pitch the 8th, and 9th last night, and Schreiber only pitch the 7th then I think that was a flawed plan at best.

 

Cora also wanted Schreiber available for tonight's game. So he let Danish pitch the 8th against weaker hitters, and that part worked.

 

He was handcuffed by only having one good right handed reliever.

[Old Red]

Cora also wanted Schreiber available for tonight's game. So he let Danish pitch the 8th against weaker hitters, and that part worked.

 

He was handcuffed by only having one good right handed reliever.

 

So we’re worried about tonight’s game when you don’t even know if a closer will be needed? The game was there for the taken last night, and Cora didn’t take it. The fact the Red Sox only had 1 good RH reliever is on Bloom.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

If Scheiber pitched the 7th and 8th you're still left with Danish and Robles to pitch the 9th.

 

Nothing wrong with questioning the moves, but I think Cora had legit reasons for what he did.

 

Right on both counts. I expected to see Strahm or Diekman, but I'm sure their status (no fans ever know whose arm is loose, tight, sore, off-target, etc. night to night) and match-up reports by everyone from the historians and futurians in the analytics dept, and coaches in the bullpen and on the bench factor into the decision of who to use.

 

Ultimately, though, the Red Sox were dashed by a pastry and a fairy tale...

[mvp 78]

So we’re worried about tonight’s game when you don’t even know if a closer will be needed? The game was there for the taken last night, and Cora didn’t take it. The fact the Red Sox only had 1 good RH reliever is on Bloom.

 

Nope. I can't blame Bloom. It's his freedom to choose not to have better arms in the pen. Who am I to say?

[Old Red]

Nope. I can't blame Bloom. It's his freedom to choose not to have better arms in the pen. Who am I to say?

 

Good one.

[mvp 78]

Good one.

 

I don't know what else to say about it. He was just doing what he thought was best for his family. Spend more time looking for better relievers or be at home? Who am I to judge?

[Bellhorn04]

Right on both counts. I expected to see Strahm or Diekman, but I'm sure their status (no fans ever know whose arm is loose, tight, sore, off-target, etc. night to night) and match-up reports by everyone from the historians and futurians in the analytics dept, and coaches in the bullpen and on the bench factor into the decision of who to use.

 

Cora believes heavily in matchups, of course, and Strahm and Diekman were not good matchups against the Jays RH power.

[Old Red]

Cora believes heavily in matchups, of course, and Strahm and Diekman were not good matchups against the Jays RH power.

 

True that Streakman, and Strahm might not have been good matchups, but you would rather go with Robles who isn’t a match for anyone especially in the 9th inning, and that is why Schreiber should have pitched the 9th if not the 8th as well. This is a game you can’t get back, and is in the loss column for good.

[Bellhorn04]

True that Streakman, and Strahm might not have been good matchups, but you would rather go with Robles who isn’t a match for anyone especially in the 9th inning, and that is why Schreiber should have pitched the 9th if not the 8th as well. This is a game you can’t get back, and is in the loss column for good.

 

There's not much question that Houck's decision put this one in the loss column.