The Way Too Early Tear Down Thread

[oldtimer]

 

 

 

 

 

Now, we near the next step, and your guess is as good as mine, if Bloom is up to the task. I have no idea, if he will do better with major signings than past Sox GMs. Many have not only failed, they have flopped, sometimes right out of the gate.

 

Time will tell.

 

The next steps may well include making a major effort to keep our current strengths together where at all possible, and shoring up areas that are not currently strengths. Keeping Bogaerts, Devers and Story will be important but keeping Martinez might not be possible. Shoring up first base by letting go of poor performers, and prospects we don't seem to believe can be promoted and replacing them with a proven performer like Trey Mancini could give us a top infield with some juggling. Our outfield is underperforming but JBJ appears to be regaining his best form so we might look elsewhere for replacements as confidence in Duran's development has taken a hit.

 

We have some good young pitching prospects. Maybe it's time to reevaluate talent versus experience. Part of the answer to resolve our pitching woes may well be to promote from within.

 

[moonslav59]

You make good points, and yes time will tell. I was on the fence with Bloom for awhile, but what pushed me over to one side was when Bloom made that ridiculous contract offer to Bogey.

 

Reported offer was absurd: I agree.

 

I do think the Story signing sealed Bogey's fate- like it or not, and I can understand why many fans prefer Bogey.

[notin]

Reported offer was absurd: I agree.

 

I do think the Story signing sealed Bogey's fate- like it or not, and I can understand why many fans prefer Bogey.

 

I don’t think it sealed his fate as much as I think it hurt his leverage. Before Story was on board, Bogaerts could basically demand the world, and if the Sox didn’t meet his terms, he had free agency to fall back on. Free agency might never reach his contact demands, but at least he knows he will get the best possible offer.

 

It’s like when JD was set to become a free agent, and Boras wrote a treatise about the “King Kong of Slug” and how JD deserved $200mill. Arizona had first rights, and walked away at that price despite JD reaching legend status in a partial season there. JD went to the market and got nowhere near his $200 mill. Boston came the closest, and even then it took forever for JD to sign, presumably because Boras was trying to squeeze that missing $75mill out of anyone he could…

[moonslav59]

I don’t think it sealed his fate as much as I think it hurt his leverage. Before Story was on board, Bogaerts could basically demand the world, and if the Sox didn’t meet his terms, he had free agency to fall back on. Free agency might never reach his contact demands, but at least he knows he will get the best possible offer.

 

It’s like when JD was set to become a free agent, and Boras wrote a treatise about the “King Kong of Slug” and how JD deserved $200mill. Arizona had first rights, and walked away at that price despite JD reaching legend status in a partial season there. JD went to the market and got nowhere near his $200 mill. Boston came the closest, and even then it took forever for JD to sign, presumably because Boras was trying to squeeze that missing $75mill out of anyone he could…

 

I know we might have upwards of $100-110M to spend, this winter, assuming the budget stays somewhat level, but I think we have more open slots than you and others do.

 

I do think Bloom will try some in system solutions to a few open slots, but I can’t see him offering any where near what Bogey will be offered elsewhere. I think they see Story as the SS of the next 2-3 years, and I don’t think Bogey will agree to move positions. To me, that’s the main reason i think he walks.

 

I think the reported low initial offer confirms my opinion. I’d be surprised if he comes back, unless nobody offers him more.

 

I think our higher need areas are pitching, catching and OF, and other needs are also higher than SS or 2B.

 

Just my opinion.

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think it sealed his fate as much as I think it hurt his leverage. Before Story was on board, Bogaerts could basically demand the world, and if the Sox didn’t meet his terms, he had free agency to fall back on. Free agency might never reach his contact demands, but at least he knows he will get the best possible offer.

 

I'm not sure I understand. Bogaerts still has free agency to fall back on.

[notin]

I'm not sure I understand. Bogaerts still has free agency to fall back on.

 

If he doesn’t get what he wants from Boston now, he can /will go and see what his best offer is from anyone in November.

 

What would be his incentive to sign anything with Boston right now? Unless it met his asking price, whatever that is…

[Bellhorn04]

If he doesn’t get what he wants from Boston now, he can /will go and see what his best offer is from anyone in November.

 

What would be his incentive to sign anything with Boston right now? Unless it met his asking price, whatever that is…

 

But you said his leverage was hurt, that's what I don't get.

[notin]

But you said his leverage was hurt, that's what I don't get.

 

His leverage was hurt because with Story, the Sox simply don’t need him as badly…

[Bellhorn04]

His leverage was hurt because with Story, the Sox simply don’t need him as badly…

 

So maybe moon's take that it sealed his fate is valid too. With that plus the insult offer, they might as well have given him a T-shirt celebrating his impending free agency.

 

But Lou Merloni...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So maybe moon's take that it sealed his fate is valid too. With that plus the insult offer, they might as well have given him a T-shirt celebrating his impending free agency.

 

But Lou Merloni...

 

... can no longer make the throw from deep in the hole?

 

What if: Bogey -- who loves where he works and is already rich beyond his dreams -- pulls a JD (year after year after year) and decides at the last minute NOT to opt out.

 

Boy, that would frost Bor's ass.

[notin]

... can no longer make the throw from deep in the hole?

 

What if: Bogey -- who loves where he works and is already rich beyond his dreams -- pulls a JD (year after year after year) and decides at the last minute NOT to opt out.

 

Boy, that would frost Bor's ass.

 

 

Not likely unless his OPS in September drops under .600…

[moonslav59]

Not likely unless his OPS in September drops under .600…

 

I'd say the odds are close to zero, unless Machado or someone else slides into him like they did Pedey.

[moonslav59]

Can anyone really imagine we could have a budget like this?

 

AAV in $millions

30.0 Devers

29.0 Betts

28.1 Bogey

25.6 Sale

23.3 Story

22.0 JD

17.0 Nate

 

Total $175M on just 7 players

[mvp 78]

Can anyone really imagine we could have a budget like this?

 

AAV in $millions

30.0 Devers

29.0 Betts

28.1 Bogey

25.6 Sale

23.3 Story

22.0 JD

17.0 Nate

 

Total $175M on just 7 players

 

Erase Story, Sale, JD.

[notin]

Erase Story, Sale, JD.

 

I’ll allow the erasure if Story, since it wouldn’t likely have happened had the Sox signed Betts. But Sale’s contract has to count…

[moonslav59]

I’ll allow the erasure if Story, since it wouldn’t likely have happened had the Sox signed Betts. But Sale’s contract has to count…

 

We might not win in 2018 without JD and Sale.

[Kimmi]

I do not support this thread.

 

Bad mojo.

[moonslav59]

I do not support this thread.

 

Bad mojo.

 

He posted this right after we lost 4 of 6 to the O's and Reds, but we were also 13-7 before it.

 

We are 2-0 sine its start.

 

Some reverse mojo provided by jacko.

[notin]

He posted this right after we lost 4 of 6 to the O's and Reds, but we were also 13-7 before it.

 

We are 2-0 sine its start.

 

Some reverse mojo provided by jacko.

 

The Sox low point this year was 10-19. Since then we’re 15-8…

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox low point this year was 10-19. Since then we’re 15-8…

 

The elephant is still in the room though. The elephant that says the 2022 team is not really going anywhere and a selloff of expiring contracts in July looks like the smart move.

[moonslav59]

The Sox low point this year was 10-19. Since then we’re 15-8…

 

One or two more 15-8's and we're in the wild card slot lead.

[Bellhorn04]

One or two more 15-8's and we're in the wild card slot lead.

 

If we can do a 15-8 against good teams we might have something.

[moonslav59]

The elephant is still in the room though. The elephant that says the 2022 team is not really going anywhere and a selloff of expiring contracts in July looks like the smart move.

 

The toughest call Bloom might ever have to make is if we are a few games out of the last WC slot at the deadline.

 

How will fans react to a major sell-off, if there was enough belief this team could turn it around and seriously compete for a ring.

 

Personally, I don't see us being serious contenders, this year, as of now, and assuming we will not be buyers at the deadline.

 

That doesn't mean my mind can't be changed. If we go on another tear and pick up some key pieces at the deadline, like in 2021, maybe- just maybe...

[moonslav59]

If we can do a 15-8 against good teams we might have something.

 

In that stretch we went

1-1 @ATL

2-1 @ TEX

2-1 v HOU

4-0 v SEA

2-1 @ CWS

2-3 v BAL

1-1 v CIN

1-0 @ OAK

 

The stretch was mostly vs losing record teams, but we did go 3-2 vs the winning ones.

 

[Bellhorn04]

In that stretch we went

1-1 @ATL

2-1 @ TEX

2-1 v HOU

4-0 v SEA

2-1 @ CWS

2-3 v BAL

1-1 v CIN

1-0 @ OAK

 

The stretch was mostly vs losing record teams, but we did go 3-2 vs the winning ones.

 

 

Nope. Atlanta had a losing record and still does. So now you're down to 2-1 against winning teams.

[moonslav59]

Nope. Atlanta had a losing record and still does. So now you're down to 2-1 against winning teams.

 

That's better than 3-2. LOL.

[notin]

Nope. Atlanta had a losing record and still does. So now you're down to 2-1 against winning teams.

 

But they’re also defending champs. That’s gotta count for something

[dgalehouse]

The elephant is still in the room though. The elephant that says the 2022 team is not really going anywhere and a selloff of expiring contracts in July looks like the smart move.

 

With the expanded playoffs and the " crapshoot " nature of the post season , I just don't think a fire sale can be justified. I don't envision the Sox being so far out of contention that they would consider a selloff.

[notin]

With the expanded playoffs and the " crapshoot " nature of the post season , I just don't think a fire sale can be justified. I don't envision the Sox being so far out of contention that they would consider a selloff.

 

I agree.

 

And I think some internal tweaks can make a significant difference in the bullpen…

[moonslav59]

With the expanded playoffs and the " crapshoot " nature of the post season , I just don't think a fire sale can be justified. I don't envision the Sox being so far out of contention that they would consider a selloff.

 

They may upset some fans by having a sell-off, even if just 2-5 games behind the last WC slot.