How much would you offer Devers?

[JDavis76]

I picked his entire time with the Sox. You want to highlight his Philly career and first 4 starts of 2022. We both are cherry-picking but one is lying about the other’s sample size choice.

 

No, I picked his entire career, while you have cherry picked what suits your need.

[Bellhorn04]

No, I picked his entire career, while you have cherry picked what suits your need.

 

Pivetta is making $2.65 million on a one year deal. You need some cheap labor somewhere.

[JDavis76]

Pivetta is making $2.65 million on a one year deal. You need some cheap labor somewhere.

 

Understood, and you would probably be available on a 1yr/$500K deal.

 

That doesn't mean I want you on my pitching staff.

[Bellhorn04]

Understood, and you would probably be available on a 1yr/$500K deal.

 

That doesn't mean I want you on my pitching staff.

 

He had a 2.6 bWAR last year. He was a bargain. Remains to be seen if he will be this year.

[JDavis76]

He had a 2.6 bWAR last year. He was a bargain. Remains to be seen if he will be this year.

 

Career ERA+ of 84........

[Bellhorn04]

Career ERA+ of 84........

 

Which is about right for a #5 starter.

[moonslav59]

He had a 2.6 bWAR last year. He was a bargain. Remains to be seen if he will be this year.

 

2.6 was more than Taillon, last year, as well as more than German & King combined.

 

He might "suck,' if he were a team's ace, but he's our #5.

 

His 2.1 fWAR placed him 61st out of MLB's top 150 SP'ers (30 teams x 5 starters).

 

That means he was very close to being top 60 (or in the #2 SP'er category.)

 

That's not a tiny sample size.

 

How about a bigger sample size? Since he joined the Sox in Sept of 2020, he still ranks 61st out 150 SP'ers in that time frame with a 2.6 fWAR.

 

2.2 Nestor Cortes

1.2 D German

 

having a guy that ranks as a top #3 starter in MLB as your 5th starter does not "suck."

[moonslav59]

Career ERA+ of 84........

 

Nestor's was 94, before this year. Yes, he's younger, but pitchers do get better, often enough.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I never get why you guys keep thinking a rebuild on a team spending top 5 in MLB is going to take years and years.

 

The farm already has good players who will be called up in a matter of weeks or months NOT 2-3 years.

 

I never get why some fans think that any club, particularly a big market team, shouldn't seek to lock up a core of really good players -- especially during a rebuild.

 

I know there are some who just point to dollar signs to defend the amount that Boston spends -- but who's really looking forward to Bloom trading Devers and then using the savings to sign three or four players not as good? Haven't we seen enough mediocrity trudging through his rosters already?

[moonslav59]

I never get why some fans think that any club, particularly a big market team, shouldn't seek to lock up a core of really good players -- especially during a rebuild.

 

I know there are some who just point to dollar signs to defend the amount that Boston spends -- but who's really looking forward to Bloom trading Devers and then using the savings to sign three or four players not as good? Haven't we seen enough mediocrity trudging through his rosters already?

 

I'm not one of those posters.

 

I once suggested offering Betts a 14 year deal, and have repeatedly posted "Devers Forevers!"

 

However, if management thinks they can sign better FAs than these last 3 (Betts, Bogey & Devers), and they pan out, I won't complain.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not one of those posters.

 

I once suggested offering Betts a 14 year deal, and have repeatedly posted "Devers Forevers!"

 

However, if management thinks they can sign better FAs than these last 3 (Betts, Bogey & Devers), and they pan out, I won't complain.

 

I did my preemptive complaining when they traded Betts, predicting with absolute certainty the Sox would soon sign somebody else for big bucks who would never be as good. Sure, Bloom only committed to half the Mookie years on his new prize, but here we are.

[Old Red]

I'm not one of those posters.

 

I once suggested offering Betts a 14 year deal, and have repeatedly posted "Devers Forevers!"

 

However, if management thinks they can sign better FAs than these last 3 (Betts, Bogey & Devers), and they pan out, I won't complain.

They would have to be 3 pretty dam good players to be better than those three Sox players.

[Old Red]

I did my preemptive complaining when they traded Betts, predicting with absolute certainty the Sox would soon sign somebody else for big bucks who would never be as good. Sure, Bloom only committed to half the Mookie years on his new prize, but here we are.

 

People keep putting Betts in the same company as Raffy, and Bogey, and I don’t think he is. With money being equal I don’t believe Mookie would have stayed anyways, where I think Bogey, and Raffy would.

[moonslav59]

They would have to be 3 pretty dam good players to be better than those three Sox players.

 

No doubt, but we should have over $100M to spend, next winter, and who knows how much after 2023.

 

Just as one example, if we lost Bogey & Nate but signed Judge and 2 from Wacha, Manaea + Bassitt, would you think that was a gain?

[moonslav59]

People keep putting Betts in the same company as Raffy, and Bogey, and I don’t think he is. With money being equal I don’t believe Mookie would have stayed anyways, where I think Bogey, and Raffy would.

 

That is a clear distinction, but he had more value at his time of free agency than the other two do/will, thanks to his defense.

[JDavis76]

Nestor's was 94, before this year. Yes, he's younger, but pitchers do get better, often enough.

 

You love to cherry pick. Nasty Nestor's career ERA+ stands at 103. Which is much better than 84 last I checked.

 

And Nestor has seemingly figured it out in his age 26 season, while pivetta still hasn't in his age 29 season.

[Old Red]

That is a clear distinction, but he had more value at his time of free agency than the other two do/will, thanks to his defense.

 

I agree, but to me the biggest distinction was that Mookie wanted out of Boston, and still would have left if Boston, and the Dodgers offer was equal.

[moonslav59]

You love to cherry pick. Nasty Nestor's career ERA+ stands at 103. Which is much better than 84 last I checked.

 

And Nestor has seemingly figured it out in his age 26 season, while pivetta still hasn't in his age 29 season.

 

Um, I did say "Yes, Nestor is younger." Maybe your reading comprehension skills need more work.

 

What makes Nestor's ERA+ 103, now, is a tiny sample size similar to the one you blasted me for using with Pivetta's recent 3 game stretch. (BTW, I also referenced Pivetta's 2021 season and his full time with the Sox, 100 ERA+ in 192 IP, which is about the same IP'd and ER+ as Nestor has, career 103 in 202 IP.)

[Old Red]

No doubt, but we should have over $100M to spend, next winter, and who knows how much after 2023.

 

Just as one example, if we lost Bogey & Nate but signed Judge and 2 from Wacha, Manaea + Bassitt, would you think that was a gain?

 

I guess it would depend on how things work out, because I’m in the take care of your homegrown first.

[moonslav59]

I agree, but to me the biggest distinction was that Mookie wanted out of Boston, and still would have left if Boston, and the Dodgers offer was equal.

 

Agreed. I'm not 100% sure Bogey would take a $220M/6 offer from Boston over a $220m/6 offer from some other selected teams, but yes, we kinda knew about Betts.

 

I get the feeling Devers loves playing with the Sox, but maybe he'd love playing in Alaska, too.

[moonslav59]

I guess it would depend on how things work out, because I’m in the take care of your homegrown first.

 

I hear you, but I'm glad we let some of our big stars go when we did, in the past.

 

Personally, I think it all has something to do with Bogey's SS D, and his desire to not change positions.

[JDavis76]

Um, I did say "Yes, Nestor is younger." Maybe your reading comprehension skills need more work.

 

What makes Nestor's ERA+ 103, now, is a tiny sample size similar to the one you blasted me for using with Pivetta's recent 3 game stretch. (BTW, I also referenced Pivetta's 2021 season and his full time with the Sox, 100 ERA+ in 192 IP, which is about the same IP'd and ER+ as Nestor has, career 103 in 202 IP.)

 

So pivetta threw 125 innings over his last 3 starts?

 

I didn't realize they all went into extra innings, must be a record!

[mvp 78]

I hear you, but I'm glad we let some of our big stars go when we did, in the past.

 

Personally, I think it all has something to do with Bogey's SS D, and his desire to not change positions.

 

Right now, he's young enough that you have to ask him to change positions. At some point, you'd be telling him to change positions.

[Old Red]

I hear you, but I'm glad we let some of our big stars go when we did, in the past.

 

Personally, I think it all has something to do with Bogey's SS D, and his desire to not change positions.

 

You know I know nothing about metrics, but I did hear his numbers are up this year if that means anything.

[dgalehouse]

Agreed. I'm not 100% sure Bogey would take a $220M/6 offer from Boston over a $220m/6 offer from some other selected teams, but yes, we kinda knew about Betts.

 

I get the feeling Devers loves playing with the Sox, but maybe he'd love playing in Alaska, too.

 

I don't know why you get that feeling . If a team like the Dodgers or Yankees gave him what he wanted , he would leave Boston in a minute.

[JDavis76]

I don't know why you get that feeling . If a team like the Dodgers or Yankees gave him what he wanted , he would leave Boston in a minute.

 

He got that feeling when they spent the offseason together.......

[moonslav59]

I don't know why you get that feeling . If a team like the Dodgers or Yankees gave him what he wanted , he would leave Boston in a minute.

 

A "feeling" does not mean a fact. Neither of us know what Devers feels about playing somewhere else at the same money scenario I implied.

[notin]

I have no idea whether he likes boston or not, nor will I pretend to know.

 

If they offer him $300mill, he will LOVE Boston. He might even name his first born John Henry Devers…

[mvp 78]

If they offer him $300mill, he will LOVE Boston. He might even name his first born John Henry Devers…

 

The name of his first born is already prominently tattooed on his arm.

[JDavis76]

If they offer him $300mill, he will LOVE Boston. He might even name his first born John Henry Devers…

 

Ha!!