Fire Bloom .

[Elktonnick]

Jock supporters, beautiful. Sure, let's just turn this into a political thing, and have the pro-Bloom and anti-Bloom camps heap abuse on each other. That'll be fun, huh? Let's turn Talksox into Sawxheads, another lightly moderated Red Sox board that turned incredibly ugly before dying.

 

Right now the biggest and most persistent criticism of Bloom heard in and around Boston is that he appears rudderless. Few can devine what his overall plan is.

 

I was generally favorable to his moves in 2021. However, his failure to secure solid back end bull pen help and his decision to part ways with both Hunter Renfroe and Shwarber I found disturbing.

To sum up I think my attitude towards Bloom is similar to that of the players and most Bostonians ,disappointed that he failed to improve the team after the 21 season.

[Maxbialystock]

I know we have a bunch of quitters on here who wanted all the expiring contracts sold off, but it never should have come to this. Bloom has had 3 years to work on what to do with all these expiring contracts, but did nothing about it, and not only that Raffy, and Bogey are still drifting around out there with the wind. What a mastermind!

 

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

For starters, Bloom/JH are paying $63M for three players--Price, Sale, and Eovaldi, all obtained by DD--whose combined contribution to this year's Sox is a WAR of +0.9. Three other starters--Wacha, Hill, and Whitlock (now in the bullpen)--have also been on the IL, as have two (Devers and Story) of the three most valuable (in terms in WAR) lineup players. Plus Kike, he made a huge difference in the OF last year but has barely played this year.

 

You also seem to think offering Bogey $250M and Devers $500M is a good idea--or, barring that, you would have traded them by now. It's not that simple. And right now I'm happy to still have them on the team even though keeping them will be difficult.

 

As for your guy Vazquez, the Sox were 39-43 in the 82 games in which he played. Last night was the first game of the the post-Vazquez era, and it was a great win, featuring superb pitching by Eovaldi, Schreiber, and Houck, who combined for 0 earned runs in 9 innings.

[jung]

Right now the biggest and most persistent criticism of Bloom heard in and around Boston is that he appears rudderless. Few can devine what his overall plan is.

 

I was generally favorable to his moves in 2021. However, his failure to secure solid back end bull pen help and his decision to part ways with both Hunter Renfroe and Shwarber I found disturbing.

To sum up I think my attitude towards Bloom is similar to that of the players and most Bostonians ,disappointed that he failed to improve the team after the 21 season.

 

I don't think he is rudderless at all. I think he is trying to turn the Sox into what he is used to....a small market team.

 

You have to give Bloom's master plan time to work itself out. If he has his way he will sift through this trash he is bringing in under the heading of "prospects" sprinkled with JAGS and broken down vets until 5 years later he has sifted through enough of them to ......make a run at the first round of the post season.

 

The problem with that is two fold:

1) Boston is not a small market team and does not need to be shackled like a small market team

2) The Kennedy side of the Sox, the business side will fight that effort in defense of the Sox core market

 

The result will be at best a middling result and that is where we will be....stuck in the middle. Bloom won't ever get bad enough to get some really high draft picks in here and the team won't play good enough to do anything in the post season.

Edited August 2, 2022 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

Right now the biggest and most persistent criticism of Bloom heard in and around Boston is that he appears rudderless. Few can devine what his overall plan is.

 

I was generally favorable to his moves in 2021. However, his failure to secure solid back end bull pen help and his decision to part ways with both Hunter Renfroe and Shwarber I found disturbing.

To sum up I think my attitude towards Bloom is similar to that of the players and most Bostonians ,disappointed that he failed to improve the team after the 21 season.

 

2022 was a tough year because of all the expiring deadlines.

 

Then we had an incredible string of injuries.

 

Things like the Bradley trade, and the bullpen etc., I don't argue about. Some things just haven't worked.

 

I think so far Bloom's mistakes have been short-term ones, and he's sticking to the plan of improving the future by stocking the farm and not signing long-term deals outside of Story and Whitlock.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[Old Red]

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

For starters, Bloom/JH are paying $63M for three players--Price, Sale, and Eovaldi, all obtained by DD--whose combined contribution to this year's Sox is a WAR of +0.9. Three other starters--Wacha, Hill, and Whitlock (now in the bullpen)--have also been on the IL, as have two (Devers and Story) of the three most valuable (in terms in WAR) lineup players. Plus Kike, he made a huge difference in the OF last year but has barely played this year.

 

You also seem to think offering Bogey $250M and Devers $500M is a good idea--or, barring that, you would have traded them by now. It's not that simple. And right now I'm happy to still have them on the team even though keeping them will be difficult.

 

As for your guy Vazquez, the Sox were 39-43 in the 82 games in which he played. Last night was the first game of the the post-Vazquez era, and it was a great win, featuring superb pitching by Eovaldi, Schreiber, and Houck, who combined for 0 earned runs in 9 innings.

This is Maxslop at its best, and has nothing to do with selling off the players with expiring contracts, and quitting.

[Bellhorn04]

You have to give Bloom's master plan time to work itself out. If he has his way he will sift through this trash he is bringing in under the heading of "prospects" sprinkled with JAGS and broken down vets until 5 years later he has sifted through enough of them to ......make a run at the first round of the post season.

 

And why are you totally dismissing the 2021 postseason and the acquisitions Bloom made to help the team get there?

[Old Red]

2022 was a tough year because of all the expiring deadlines.

 

Then we had an incredible string of injuries.

 

Things like the Bradley trade, and the bullpen etc., I don't argue about. Some things just haven't worked.

 

I think so far Bloom's mistakes have been short-term ones, and he's sticking to the plan of improving the future by stocking the firm and not signing long-term deals outside of Story and Whitlock.

 

At good, and well, but the so called improving the future with more prospects/suspects, and the farm ranking doesn’t guarantee success unless you have something to combine them with. Casas, and Mayer are no guarantees. Raffy, and Bogey are.

[jung]

And why are you totally dismissing the 2021 postseason and the acquisitions Bloom made to help the team get there?

 

Because 2021 is in the past and the longer Bloom has with this team the worse this is going to get.

 

We have gone from a big market team, perennial contender to happy that MLB has changed the post season format so that virtually any team that is breathing gets in to the post season.

[Bellhorn04]

Because 2021 is in the past and the longer Bloom has with this team the worse this is going to get.

 

We have gone from a big market team, perennial contender to happy that MLB has changed the post season format so that virtually any team that is breathing gets in to the post season.

 

You're just a total pessimist. Fine.

[a700hitter]

Bloom is not exactly Mr. Excitement. He was absent when charisma was handed out. Deadline day for the Sox was vintage Bloom . Low key and mostly quiet.

He may have been at the back of the line for brains too.

[jung]

You're just a total pessimist. Fine.

 

 

I calls them like I sees them

[a700hitter]

Oh but wait......you have to give the Bloom masterplan time. Give him about 5 years to flesh through all this crap he is bringing to the organization and he will have found enough gems to make ........a run at the first round of the post season. Yeah.......hurrah........

 

Somehow I don't think we were interested in seeing what its like to be a small market team.

It’s all about sustainability.

[Old Red]

You're just a total pessimist. Fine.

 

That’s the way things roll. 2018 did not carry over to 2019, and 2019 certainly did not carry over to 2020, and now 2021 has not carried over to 2022, and Bloom has taken way to long to try, and fix things. 2021 was a good run though.

[Elktonnick]

It’s all about sustainability.

The best line I heard about Bloom was: "He is like the guy at the casino who expects to become a billionaire by playing blackjack at the 5dllr table."

[a700hitter]

Bloom did not address the team’s holes in the off season. He created additional holes in the off season. Now, at the trading deadline, he addressed the 1B hole with a steady but very average bat, and he got an old journeyman type outfielder with a bad temper. He traded a steady #1 catcher. But he did absolutely nothing about the most glaring need — pitching, especially in the bullpen.

[jung]

It’s all about sustainability.

 

We are going to get sustainable mediocrity IMO.

 

Bloom will not be able to go Full Bloom because the business side of the Sox will resist that in defense of the Sox fan base. So Bloom will never end up with a stock of high draft picks working their way through the system. Kennedy won't let him. Sox fans are not unilaterally patient. In fact the most patient part of the fan base is dying off....old f***ers like me.

 

We will end up with these poor man's small market prospects all over the place and the end result will be the Sox, a genuine big market team working their way to the middle year after year after year. As is the case with most of MLB we will be thrilled year after year that any team that is actually just breathing by year end gets into the post season.

 

However I would suggest there is s trap there also. MLB features a 162 game regular season. MLB has to make those 162 games meaningful and if everybody breathing gets in to the post season, that is a hard magic act to maintain.

[Old Red]

Bloom did not address the team’s holes in the off season. He created additional holes in the off season. Now, at the trading deadline, he addressed the 1B hole with a steady but very average bat, and he got an old journeyman type outfielder with a bad temper. He traded a steady #1 catcher. But he did absolutely nothing about the most glaring need — pitching, especially in the bullpen.

 

And that’s the bottom line cause 700 said so. Well done.

[Old Red]

Any explanation I have to offer you'll just call an excuse, so what's the point? Seems like Bloom haters aren't actually interested in discussion any more. If you don't agree with them, they get abusive.

 

I have many times on here said we’ll have to agree to disagree, and that should be the end of the back, and forth, but most times that’s not good enough, and some think they have to get the last word in, and I’m not referring to you.

[Old Red]

Any explanation I have to offer you'll just call an excuse, so what's the point? Seems like Bloom haters aren't actually interested in discussion any more. If you don't agree with them, they get abusive.

 

I have many times on here said we’ll have to agree to disagree, and that should be the end of the back, and forth, but most times that’s not good enough, and some think they have to get the last word in, and I’m not referring to you. Saying I’m a hater, because i don’t think Bloom can do the job, and I don’t like his way of doing things is kind of strong, and gets used a lot on here. I don’t like what Bloom does, but I don’t hate him.

[JDavis76]

Bloom did not address the team’s holes in the off season. He created additional holes in the off season. Now, at the trading deadline, he addressed the 1B hole with a steady but very average bat, and he got an old journeyman type outfielder with a bad temper. He traded a steady #1 catcher. But he did absolutely nothing about the most glaring need — pitching, especially in the bullpen.

 

He's in over his head.

 

And I sincerely doubt he's around long enough to see his "plan" come to fruition.....

[mvp 78]

Didn’t lose anything. How about a good clutch bat, and a leader in the clubhouse?

 

Mediocre defensive and aging catcher that was horrible running on the basepaths and his contract was up in two months anyway.

[Old Red]

Mediocre defensive and aging catcher that was horrible running on the basepaths and his contract was up in two months anyway.

 

I’ll agree with that, but Vaz was good with coming up with big clutch hits. Had some in the PS last year.

[oldtimer]

Bloom said the puzzle was not yet finished, but did nothing further. Sounds like he couldn't make a favorable deal with the Boston players available to trade. Were his expectations too high or were other clubs just not interested?

[MADSTORK]

And why are you totally dismissing the 2021 postseason and the acquisitions Bloom made to help the team get there?

 

2021 was a great year! Bloom didn’t take what he already had in place and add. He started subtracting and it snow balled

 

Just like you stated, there was zero reason to trade Renfro , zero. You could justify the AB deal because ultimately he landed Renfro 30 100 players do not grow on trees.

 

Second mistake was not signing Jansen! Again, the first 30 35 games into 22 you had double digit blown saves

[MADSTORK]

2021 was a great year! Bloom didn’t take what he already had in place and add. He started subtracting and it snow balled

 

Just like you stated, there was zero reason to trade Renfro , zero. You could justify the AB deal because ultimately he landed Renfro 30 100 players do not grow on trees.

 

Second mistake was not signing Jansen! Again, the first 30 35 games into 22 you had double digit blown saves

 

I’ll give 1B a pass since I think the plan was for Casas to eventually take over but he was injured and the plan went out the window

 

Story signing money wise is a head scratcher. It’s a bad deal for a Coors field player but again I’ll give Bloom a pass here since Boston is a major market team

 

Sale Evoldi well it’s the risk you take

Injuries are a risk

 

Again Renfro trade started the downfall

[MADSTORK]

Mediocre defensive and aging catcher that was horrible running on the basepaths and his contract was up in two months anyway.

 

I agree, I give Bloom a B+ on the deal. The prospect Abreu is a legit RF with a great arm and has turned into a power bat at a power bat position

He is a little older but I would get him up and start him in RF see what you got?

[a700hitter]

Getting a Hosmer wasn’t a terrible move, but it isn’t going to turn the Red Sox into a contender, because Bloom didn’t address the pitching at all. Are they planning to have Hosmer play 1B in 23, blocking Casas and making Dalbec irrelevant. Otherwise, I can’t make sense of it.

[a700hitter]

As bad as we feel about Bloom’s decisions at the deadline, the Orioles who are ahead of the Red Sox in the Wild Card chase treated their suffering fans to zero pickups for the ML roster and traded one of their reliable veterans in Mancini and their closer.

[MADSTORK]

Bloom did not address the team’s holes in the off season. He created additional holes in the off season. Now, at the trading deadline, he addressed the 1B hole with a steady but very average bat, and he got an old journeyman type outfielder with a bad temper. He traded a steady #1 catcher. But he did absolutely nothing about the most glaring need — pitching, especially in the bullpen.

 

Amen Clint!

 

At the moment Bloom is two steps back and one step forward

 

From what I’ve heard from a distance relative of mine who was a backup OF for the Mets in the mid to late 70’s and worked within the Mets Scouting department in the early to mid 80’s his take on Tampa over the years was that of the moneyball philosophy which in fact is all statistical driven without more times than not “physically scouting a player”

 

Moneyball’s other philosophy was never draft a high school player, draft college players and when making trades your always looking for older prospects with emphasis on on OBpct and slugging not taking into account the other offensive metrics

Now Bloom did draft a high schooler first round in 21 and again in 22 which does question his philosophy and overall outlook of what his plan might be?

 

Look at Blooms deals, most of the prospects traded for are in the 22 to 24 year old range playing at a lower level than where they should be. More times than not you can trade for those players with ease in hopes of landing a legit moneyball player which takes the Arb years into the players late 20’s which in moneyball terms is the players peak years

 

Moral of my story, moneyball never won a World Series.

 

Far as Bloom goes, I can’t figure out the direction he is trying to go in which in fact st the moment has not been trending upward

[Maxbialystock]

That’s the way things roll. 2018 did not carry over to 2019, and 2019 certainly did not carry over to 2020, and now 2021 has not carried over to 2022, and Bloom has taken way to long to try, and fix things. 2021 was a good run though.

 

Hey, dummy. 2018 and 2019 belonged to DD, not Bloom. 2020 was a nonseason. 2021 was a surprisingly good season despite the departure of Mookie, the absence of highly paid starter Price, the weak season of highly paid starter Sale, the lack of a closer in the postseason (which had absolutely zero impact on game outcomes), etc.

 

As for 2022, the Sox pitching staff was hit with a tsunami of injuries followed by injuries to two--Devers and Story--of the Sox three best lineup players this year. Plus Kike.

 

What has become clear from your commentary is that you must have been a huge DD fan because his approach was so simple: spend like a drunken sailor and/or trade away your farm system because the future is now--and never later.

 

Bloom has the unenviable task of paying for DD's extravagance--specifically, shelling out $63M this year for Price, Sale, and Eovaldi whose combined WAR is a paltry 0.9. By himself, Bloom-acquisition Wacha has a WAR of +2.2. Schreiber's is 2.1--another Bloom acquisition. Pivetta's is 2.0--still another Bloom acquisition. Whitlock's is 1.5--yep, another Bloom guy.