Fire Bloom .

[notin]

You just don't care for my sense of humor.

 

My bad. That was fake. I need more coffee…

[notin]

Major outlays by Ben:

 

Pedroia

Victorino

Napoli

Pablo

Hanley

Porcello

Castillo

 

A fair amount in 4 years IMHO.

 

 

Most of those were 4 years or less. Counting the 3 year deals to Victorino and Napoli as “major outlays” just highlights this. When you look at Epstein’s major contracts, how far down the list is Foulke?

[Bellhorn04]

Ben also traded prospects for Melancon, Bailey and Hanrahan.

[Bellhorn04]

Most of those were 4 years or less. Counting the 3 year deals to Victorino and Napoli as “major outlays” just highlights this. When you look at Epstein’s major contracts, how far down the list is Foulke?

 

Again, we're comparing a 9 year tenure to a 4 year tenure.

[a700hitter]

Next year is the 5th year of his plan. That is his last stand.

[notin]

Ben also traded prospects for Melancon, Bailey and Hanrahan.

 

Interesting that you consider dealing Jed Lowrie, who played parts of 4 different years in Boston, to be a prospect, but don’t consider Andrew Bailey to be acquiring one.

 

Melancon himself was part of two of those deals. Granted he was sent away largely with the spare parts from the Punto deal, and the Sox did get a talented young Brock Holt in return as well…

[moonslav59]

Don't forget Theo was 9 years and Ben was 4, so everything has to be converted by a factor of 2.25.

 

Yes, but I do think there was a significant drop in prospects traded and big signings under Ben vs Theo and DD.

 

Ben had more than Bloom, but he is closer to Bloom than Theo and DD.

[moonslav59]

Major outlays by Ben:

 

Pedroia

Victorino

Napoli

Pablo

Hanley

Porcello

Castillo

 

A fair amount in 4 years IMHO.

 

Napoli was not all that big ($16M x 2), and wasn't Porcello extended under DD?

[moonslav59]

Most of those were 4 years or less. Counting the 3 year deals to Victorino and Napoli as “major outlays” just highlights this. When you look at Epstein’s major contracts, how far down the list is Foulke?

 

Counting inflation?

[notin]

Next year is the 5th year of his plan. That is his last stand.

 

This has been the consensus for 3 years running now…

[moonslav59]

Ben also traded prospects for Melancon, Bailey and Hanrahan.

 

Multiply by 2.25 and you are way under Theo's numbers.

 

DD is in a class by himself.

[notin]

Counting inflation?

 

Did Foulke’s deal get longer with inflation?

[Bellhorn04]

Napoli was not all that big ($16M x 2), and wasn't Porcello extended under DD?

 

No, Porcello was all Ben.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox have stayed near the top in payroll since Theo came aboard, right up until this year when they took a dive. The big bubbles were in 2018 and 2019, which was a combination of Ben's contracts and DD's contracts.

[moonslav59]

Did Foulke’s deal get longer with inflation?

 

Lmao.

 

At the time, that money and those years were about the max any RP'er had ever gotten.

[moonslav59]

The Red Sox have stayed near the top in payroll since Theo came aboard, right up until this year when they took a dive. The big bubbles were in 2018 and 2019, which was a combination of Ben's contracts and DD's contracts.

 

The Sale and Bogey extensions notwithstanding, the drop in spending and trading of prospects started right after the trade deadline of 2018, which was about 1.5 years of DD and 4 years of Bloom.

[Duran Is The Man]

I’m not really interested in the David Stearns to the Sox rumors. If they are going to bring in a replacement for Bloom, it needs to be someone that is an improvement not just a similar profile with a different name. Just open the checkbook and bring back the god Theo Epstein.

 

now we're talkin'.

[Bellhorn04]

The Sale and Bogey extensions notwithstanding, the drop in spending and trading of prospects started right after the trade deadline of 2018, which was about 1.5 years of DD and 4 years of Bloom.

 

How can we notwithstand those extensions and the Eovaldi signing? That was 145 + 120 +68 = 333 million.

[Bellhorn04]

now we're talkin'.

 

Yeah, just have to outbid Steve Cohen...

[moonslav59]

How can we notwithstand those extensions and the Eovaldi signing? That was 145 + 120 +68 = 333 million.

 

Yes, I forgot that one, and that 4 years ended up longer than Bogey's with that 3 year opt out.

 

Good catch.

 

In all those 3 cases, it was just DD keeping what he had, and all seemed like team friendly contracts, at the time.

 

I do think not bringing Kimbrel and Kelly back, and not replacing their contracts in kind was the beginning of the friction between DD and top brass. There were also no major prospects traded after the Nate trade at the 2018 deadline.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, just have to outbid Steve Cohen...

 

It is likely that Bloom bids on the pitchers left over after the Mets and Dodgers choose who they want most.

[notin]

It is likely that Bloom bids on the pitchers left over after the Mets and Dodgers choose who they want most.

 

The best stategy is to avoid their targets altogether.

 

Bulk the bullpen. Improve the defense. Trade for or sign lesser SPs whose role is going to be marginalized anyway…

[Maxbialystock]

The best stategy is to avoid their targets altogether.

 

Bulk the bullpen. Improve the defense. Trade for or sign lesser SPs whose role is going to be marginalized anyway…

 

Improve the defense? Good field, no hit is the definition of minor leaguer. Improving the defense is the easiest thing in the world, but a losing proposition.

 

Hitting>>>>>>>>defense.

[Dipre]

Bloom is going nowhere. I'll bet dollars to yen he's done exactly what Henry wanted him to at the org level, even if his MLB results have left something to be desired. I think the real test begins this offseason. Note: This isn't about what I personally think of our Lord and Savior Chaim Bloom, but rather what I think has actually been his performance in the eyes of good ol' Reptile JH.

[notin]

Improve the defense? Good field, no hit is the definition of minor leaguer. Improving the defense is the easiest thing in the world, but a losing proposition.

 

Hitting>>>>>>>>defense.

 

 

 

Well, my repeated proposal of Matt Chapman isn’t exactly one for a one dimensional minor leaguer…

[moonslav59]

The best stategy is to avoid their targets altogether.

 

Bulk the bullpen. Improve the defense. Trade for or sign lesser SPs whose role is going to be marginalized anyway…

 

Someone mentioned the idea of pouncing on the second tier SP'er we like the most first, and then waiting to pounce on the leftover first tier SP'er, despite an expected gross overpay.

 

Maybe Gray would be the choice, as he will likely settle on less years than the others in the top tier, due to his age.

[moonslav59]

Bloom is going nowhere. I'll bet dollars to yen he's done exactly what Henry wanted him to at the org level, even if his MLB results have left something to be desired. I think the real test begins this offseason. Note: This isn't about what I personally think of our Lord and Savior Chaim Bloom, but rather what I think has actually been his performance in the eyes of good ol' Reptile JH.

 

I agree, and while I do think the Sox top brass expected or hoped for better W-L results in 2023, their eyes have, IMO, always been on improving the foundation of the 26 and the farm more than making the playoffs in 2023.

 

I know some or many disagree, but to me, the foundation of young players has greatly improved from 2020, 2021 and 2022. Many are DD guys, but it seems clar to me, our foundation is much better:

 

Years of control:

C: Wong 4+ and McGuire 2

1B: Casas 4+

2B: Urias 2 and Reyes 3

SS: Story 4

3B: Devers 10

LF: Duran 4+ and Refsnyder 2

CF: Rafaela 5+

RF: Dugo 1 and Abreu 5+

DH: Yoshida 4 and EValdez 4+

(These are just the players with MLB experience, already.)

 

Bello 5

Crawford 4+

Wink 4+

Bernardino 4+

Kelly 4+

Mills 4+

Murphy 4+

Walter 4+

Houck 4

Whitlock 3

Schreiber 3

Joely 2

Jansen 1

Martin 1

Pivetta 1

Sale 1

 

The farm is harder to quantify, but on paper, it certainly looks stronger than 2017-2021. Recent grads might make 2022's look better, but here is a breakdown of our farm by position:

 

C: S Scott, Teel, Hickey & Brannon

1B: Dalbec, Kavadas & Jordan

2B: Yorke, Bonaci, Ravelo

3B: Meidroth, Coffey, Anderson, Paulino

SS: Mayer, Cespedes, Zanetello, DHam & Romero

OF: Anthony, Bleis, Rosier, Castro

 

Forgive me for being optimistic, but I see plenty of reason to be so.

 

Add 2-3 players via free agency or trades, and we can be a contender. Add 3-4 top players and we can be top contenders in 2024.

 

[Bellhorn04]

The best stategy is to avoid their targets altogether.

 

Bulk the bullpen. Improve the defense. Trade for or sign lesser SPs whose role is going to be marginalized anyway…

 

It would be helpful to have a starter or two who can regularly pitch 6 innings or more...

[moonslav59]

It would be helpful to have a starter or two who can regularly pitch 6 innings or more...

 

Imagine having 2 new pitchers at 190 or 200+ IP

Bello at 175+

and Pivetta and Houck at 150+

[notin]

It would be helpful to have a starter or two who can regularly pitch 6 innings or more...

 

 

Did you know the Sox are 56-3 when leading after 6 innings? f*** Nola!! Sign Hader and Dylan Floro!