Fire Bloom .

[moonslav59]

What farm pieces did he trade to get the 2006 WS team? That was your assertion! Or were you just making s*** up?

 

My comment was that DD has never been hired to build up a farm for the longer term outlook.

 

I neve said "trade everything".

 

I mentioned trading away the farm, but that was more about the Sox, and even with the Sox, I have repeatedly said he did not decimate the farm. I should have worded that better.

 

I never set a timeframe with Detroit, but he did trade away many very good prospects for key players later on in Detroit.

 

The point is: team hire DD when they want to win, soon. They don't hire him to build up a farm, so they can win in 4-7 years. He has the okay to spend big and or trade away several top prospects to win NOW or soon.

 

That was not the situation Bloom was hird into, no matter how hard many posters want to think it was. They seem to think it was Bloom's idea to not spend big or trade away key prospects, so we could have been better in 2020, 2021 and even 2022. Maybe, someday that will change. Maybe, if it does, they will hire someone like DD to change course.

[moonslav59]

Like Kennedy said at the year end press conference we all failed this year meaning himself, Cora, and Bloom. We’ve been over this hundreds of times already that to some fans they only care what’s happening here, and now, and that here, and now is a losing team with a last place in the Div finish. That’s a failure, and Bloom is a failure, and all the excuse making, and Pom Pom waving is not going to change that. DD was fired 10 months after winning a WS, so by that criteria Bloom who hasn’t won a thing, and has 2 last place finishes to his resume should be out the door. To me this was a bad hire by JH if he wants to having a winning big league ball club. Building up the farm I agree with, but is not the most important thing.

 

I never said Bloom has been a success. We aren't even sure, yet, if the apparent farm build-up will amount to what we hope it will.

 

IMO, the top priority Bloom was handed was to build up the farm. It's fine to disagree.

 

Another top priority, after 2020, was to try and be competitive while rebuilding, and Bloom is 1 for 2 on that front. I don't think JH or anyone in the organization felt like a WS was the expectation in 2021 or 2022. It might be yours and many other fans, but I honestly don't think they expected it.

 

They certainly did not expect a last place finish either, especially after the promise the 2021 team showed. As you pointed out, injuries were a big key to that letdown. I also think declines by too many returning vets was a big reason, too, and I don't think either of them can be blamed fully on Bloom. The deadwood on the budget, either.

 

We like to point to JBJ and Paxton and a few other failed moves, but overall, IMO, Bloom has made more good moves than bad. When I look at the 26 and 40 man rosters of 2020, as well as the farm, back then, I see major progress, whether it showed up in wins or not.

 

It's not excuse making. It's reality.

 

Bloom was not handed a big enough budget to do what you wanted done. He was not told he could trade away many top prospects for instant gratification. Yoiu might wish he had been told that, or maybe you think JH is telling him he can, but he is choosing not to.

 

We both have wildly differing views on what can reasonably been expected to happen given the farm status (only Houck has been added between Devers and Bello/Casas) and the massive budget cuts he had up to the Story signing. That's the reality. It's not a bubble.

 

Had DD been handed Bloom's budget and told not to trade top prospects, you really think we'd be in the WAS, right now? If yes, explain how.

 

[Old Red]

I never said Bloom has been a success. We aren't even sure, yet, if the apparent farm build-up will amount to what we hope it will.

 

IMO, the top priority Bloom was handed was to build up the farm. It's fine to disagree.

 

Another top priority, after 2020, was to try and be competitive while rebuilding, and Bloom is 1 for 2 on that front. I don't think JH or anyone in the organization felt like a WS was the expectation in 2021 or 2022. It might be yours and many other fans, but I honestly don't think they expected it.

 

They certainly did not expect a last place finish either, especially after the promise the 2021 team showed. As you pointed out, injuries were a big key to that letdown. I also think declines by too many returning vets was a big reason, too, and I don't think either of them can be blamed fully on Bloom. The deadwood on the budget, either.

 

We like to point to JBJ and Paxton and a few other failed moves, but overall, IMO, Bloom has made more good moves than bad. When I look at the 26 and 40 man rosters of 2020, as well as the farm, back then, I see major progress, whether it showed up in wins or not.

 

It's not excuse making. It's reality.

 

Bloom was not handed a big enough budget to do what you wanted done. He was not told he could trade away many top prospects for instant gratification. Yoiu might wish he had been told that, or maybe you think JH is telling him he can, but he is choosing not to.

 

We both have wildly differing views on what can reasonably been expected to happen given the farm status (only Houck has been added between Devers and Bello/Casas) and the massive budget cuts he had up to the Story signing. That's the reality. It's not a bubble.

 

Had DD been handed Bloom's budget and told not to trade top prospects, you really think we'd be in the WAS, right now? If yes, explain how.

 

 

Be in the WAS? I have no idea if we would be in a WAS right now, but I would venture to say we wouldn’t have been a losing last place team last year. Bloom is a failure, and I hope his time is running out to prove otherwise. BTW I hope he does prove otherwise, but I don’t think it is going to happen.

[moonslav59]

Be in the WAS? I have no idea if we would be in a WAS right now, but I would venture to say we wouldn’t have been a losing last place team last year. Bloom is a failure, and I hope his time is running out to prove otherwise. BTW I hope he does prove otherwise, but I don’t think it is going to happen.

 

The edit button does not work for me, many times. I meant WS (World Series) not WAS.

[Old Red]

The edit button does not work for me, many times. I meant WS (World Series) not WAS.

 

I knew what you meant.

[moonslav59]

Be in the WAS? I have no idea if we would be in a WAS right now, but I would venture to say we wouldn’t have been a losing last place team last year. Bloom is a failure, and I hope his time is running out to prove otherwise. BTW I hope he does prove otherwise, but I don’t think it is going to happen.

 

We very well might have been a little better had DD been the GM under the same circumstances, but I honestly think he'd have quit under those conditions.

 

I doubt our farm would be ranked so highly, and yes, I know that is just speculative value.

 

For argument's sake, would you have wanted us to trade Casas and Bello and finish in 2nd place with one playoff round win in 2022?

[Old Red]

We very well might have been a little better had DD been the GM under the same circumstances, but I honestly think he'd have quit under those conditions.

 

I doubt our farm would be ranked so highly, and yes, I know that is just speculative value.

 

For argument's sake, would you have wanted us to trade Casas and Bello and finish in 2nd place with one playoff round win in 2022?

 

Traded for who? Aren’t those two DD guys?

[moonslav59]

Traded for who? Aren’t those two DD guys?

 

It's just a hypothetical question. Had DD stayed on, he very well may have traded Casas and Bello for a player or two that helped us get more wins- your only gauge for success.

 

Would it have been worth it?

 

2nd place.

 

One round advancement.

 

The future is now, so it matters little if the guy(s) he got in trade are still around for 2023, right?

[Old Red]

It's just a hypothetical question. Had DD stayed on, he very well may have traded Casas and Bello for a player or two that helped us get more wins- your only gauge for success.

 

Would it have been worth it?

 

2nd place.

 

One round advancement.

 

The future is now, so it matters little if the guy(s) he got in trade are still around for 2023, right?

For starters even though Casas, and Bello shows lots of promises neither one has established anything yet. Now if you are talking about trading them this past year to get into the postseason it would have to be for at least two pretty good players that would be for more than a 1 yr rental. The future is now is the main thing, but then you have to do a little bit deeper dig . Just like I talk about BA which I look at first, but then go into it deeper from there, so I’m not as bad as you think.

[mvp 78]

My comment was that DD has never been hired to build up a farm for the longer term outlook.

 

I neve said "trade everything".

 

I mentioned trading away the farm, but that was more about the Sox, and even with the Sox, I have repeatedly said he did not decimate the farm. I should have worded that better.

 

I never set a timeframe with Detroit, but he did trade away many very good prospects for key players later on in Detroit.

 

The point is: team hire DD when they want to win, soon. They don't hire him to build up a farm, so they can win in 4-7 years. He has the okay to spend big and or trade away several top prospects to win NOW or soon.

 

That was not the situation Bloom was hird into, no matter how hard many posters want to think it was. They seem to think it was Bloom's idea to not spend big or trade away key prospects, so we could have been better in 2020, 2021 and even 2022. Maybe, someday that will change. Maybe, if it does, they will hire someone like DD to change course.

 

Um, that's exactly what Detroit did.

 

DD hired before 2002 season.

 

World Series appearance in 2006.

 

Better run of success later on 2011-2014.

 

How are you so bad at this?

[moonslav59]

Um, that's exactly what Detroit did.

 

DD hired before 2002 season.

 

World Series appearance in 2006.

 

Better run of success later on 2011-2014.

 

How are you so bad at this?

 

They spent big, early. They did not trade away top prospects, early.

 

They spent big, later. They traded away top prospects, later.

[notin]

What farm pieces did he trade to get the 2006 WS team? That was your assertion! Or were you just making s*** up?

 

Really I think the biggest pieces he traded away might have been Andrew Miller and Curtis Granderson. Miller took a long time to really discover his niche, but he did excel in it. And Granderson became a terrific all around player in New York. But DD also acquired two future Hall of Famers in those trades.

 

He also dealt then top prospect Cameron Maybin in one of those deals. Maybin tells the story about his reaction about hearing he was traded and how he was shocked and angry and just yelling at everyonet because he thought the Tigers had given up on him. Then he was told he was traded for Miguel Cabrera. His reaction?

 

“Oh. That makes sense.”

[Old Red]

My comment was that DD has never been hired to build up a farm for the longer term outlook.

 

I neve said "trade everything".

 

I mentioned trading away the farm, but that was more about the Sox, and even with the Sox, I have repeatedly said he did not decimate the farm. I should have worded that better.

 

I never set a timeframe with Detroit, but he did trade away many very good prospects for key players later on in Detroit.

 

The point is: team hire DD when they want to win, soon. They don't hire him to build up a farm, so they can win in 4-7 years. He has the okay to spend big and or trade away several top prospects to win NOW or soon.

 

That was not the situation Bloom was hird into, no matter how hard many posters want to think it was. They seem to think it was Bloom's idea to not spend big or trade away key prospects, so we could have been better in 2020, 2021 and even 2022. Maybe, someday that will change. Maybe, if it does, they will hire someone like DD to change course.

 

Win in 4-7 years? That may work in a place like Pittsburg, but no way would it work in Boston, nor should it. Nobody has said it’s not Bloom’s idea not to spend big either. It doesn’t matter what kind of restrictions he’s under. Either he’s up for the job, or not. I don’t think JH promised him an open checkbook when he took the job.

[notin]

Win in 4-7 years? That may work in a place like Pittsburg, but no way would it work in Boston, nor should it. Nobody has said it’s not Bloom’s idea not to spend big either. It doesn’t matter what kind of restrictions he’s under. Either he’s up for the job, or not. I don’t think JH promised him an open checkbook when he took the job.

 

No one inside the Sox organization has set that timeline. In fact, the goal has been stated to be competitive every year (except 2020, which was an intentional step back).

 

That Bloom is acquiring controllable MLB players and numerous prospects above A ball does show that they have designs on the present. You don’t acquire players like Story, Verdugo and Pivetta with 2027 as the goal…

[notin]

Of course, lost in all this Dombrowski Love is that during his tenure in Philadelphia, Bloom’s Red Sox actually have a better won-loss record.

 

Boston: 170-154

Philly: 169-155

 

Who knew?

[Slasher9]

acquire verdugo????? so we went after verdugo and used mookie to land him. got it!

[notin]

acquire verdugo????? so we went after verdugo and used mookie to land him. got it!

 

The point is Verdugo was already in MLB. The Sox didn’t take a bunch of A ball players for Mookie. Did they?

 

See, when teams are actually rebuilding and looking years down the road to win, they tend to acquire minor leaguers and hope they pan out. Like the Orioles did (poorly) with Machado…

[mvp 78]

Really I think the biggest pieces he traded away might have been Andrew Miller and Curtis Granderson. Miller took a long time to really discover his niche, but he did excel in it. And Granderson became a terrific all around player in New York. But DD also acquired two future Hall of Famers in those trades.

 

He also dealt then top prospect Cameron Maybin in one of those deals. Maybin tells the story about his reaction about hearing he was traded and how he was shocked and angry and just yelling at everyonet because he thought the Tigers had given up on him. Then he was told he was traded for Miguel Cabrera. His reaction?

 

“Oh. That makes sense.”

 

I can't believe he traded the Grandyman! He gutted the team! If Maybin is the only top prospect that DD dealt from Detroit, that system must have been fine.

[Slasher9]

i mean, he was barely a major leaguer. and quite honestly i believe the Sox took the best they could get for Mookie at the time. and verdugo was it. it could have just as easily been notin or bellhorn.

are you saying bloom doesnt suck at his job?

DD going to the WS again.

thanks Dave!

[Bobe2]

Of course, lost in all this Dombrowski Love is that during his tenure in Philadelphia, Bloom’s Red Sox actually have a better won-loss record.

 

Boston: 170-154

Philly: 169-155

 

Who knew?

 

Those numbers a very misleading Philly was building up a team while Bloom was tearing down the 2018 world champions, as evidence by their respective finishes this year, Philly goes to WS we wallow in the cellar

[moonslav59]

Those numbers a very misleading Philly was building up a team while Bloom was tearing down the 2018 world champions, as evidence by their respective finishes this year, Philly goes to WS we wallow in the cellar

 

You crack me up.

 

Bloom was not the GM in 2019. He took over the 2019 team with a mandate to make massive budget cuts. Then he watched Sale and ERod sit out 2020.

[moonslav59]

Win in 4-7 years? That may work in a place like Pittsburg, but no way would it work in Boston, nor should it. Nobody has said it’s not Bloom’s idea not to spend big either. It doesn’t matter what kind of restrictions he’s under. Either he’s up for the job, or not. I don’t think JH promised him an open checkbook when he took the job.

 

You will never understand how long it takes to rebuild a farm and then to start seeing results.

 

Check out when the Astros acquired their homegrown talent on the ML roster, now.

[Old Red]

You crack me up.

 

Bloom was not the GM in 2019. He took over the 2019 team with a mandate to make massive budget cuts. Then he watched Sale and ERod sit out 2020.

 

I didn’t see anyone say Bloom was the HOBO in 2019. I think you missed the point.

[Old Red]

You will never understand how long it takes to rebuild a farm and then to start seeing results.

 

Check out when the Astros acquired their homegrown talent on the ML roster, now.

You are mistaking understanding with caring.

[dgalehouse]

Bloom is the beachcomber with the metal detector. Looking for " hidden gems" in the sand. Head down, he misses the bikini smoke show right in front of him. On to the dumpster next.

[Bobe2]

You crack me up.

 

Bloom was not the GM in 2019. He took over the 2019 team with a mandate to make massive budget cuts. Then he watched Sale and ERod sit out 2020.

 

I responded to a post that had no dates on it, just win loss records Bloom received the Sox and DD was hired by philly, I’m referring to the teams they represent and what they did with them

[moonslav59]

I responded to a post that had no dates on it, just win loss records Bloom received the Sox and DD was hired by philly, I’m referring to the teams they represent and what they did with them

 

Yes, I know, and you suggested Bloom tore down the 2018 team.

 

I was responding to that.

[moonslav59]

I didn’t see anyone say Bloom was the HOBO in 2019. I think you missed the point.

 

I fully understood his point and responded to one part of it.

[moonslav59]

You are mistaking understanding with caring.

 

Then stop caring

[Bobe2]

Yes, I know, and you suggested Bloom tore down the 2018 team.

 

I was responding to that.

 

Can you say he didn’t with a straight face