Fire Bloom .

[Old Red]

I did not say anyone said it.

 

Do you think the Red Sox would be worse off if they don’t sign Bogey, and Raffy?

[mvp 78]

They seemed to jump the gun on Ben, so there is a history that backs your point. Ben did win a ring, but those 3 last place finishes did him in. Bloom will have 2, after this year, although 2020 really should not count. The "fun" that 2021 brought us has not been enough to balance out the bad, despite the fact that we were clearly going through a rebuild on a highly restricted budget, especially before 2020 and to a large extent 2021, too.

 

I think JH heard the rumblings and watched ticket sales drop, so he gave Bloom the okay to spend on Story. JH and most fans, including myself, expected a much better season than this- maybe not a WS appearance, but much better than this. I'm sure that frustrates JH as much as us, but I do think he realizes the plan was never to win it all, this year. Almost every move, including the Story signing has been designed for 2024 or beyond.

 

Well, the non fire sale was one exception to that long term priority, but JH has to balance fan outrage over the here and now with long term success.

 

IMO, the long term looks much brighter than it did after 2019 or even before 2019, but that's is something many or even most fans could care less about. There will always be some sort of disconnect on this.

 

Ben had a disaster of an offseason where he signed Panda and Hanley for no apparent reason and the team just s*** the bed. Going from Sept 2011 to Bobby B's 2012 to WS 2013 to last place 2014 where integral parts were traded to last place 2015 where Panda and Hanley were added was just a really wild ride.

[moonslav59]

You keep saying we like you are part of the management team worrying about re-setting the tax at any time.

 

The Red Sox are my team. I say "we" to mean the Red Sox, just like people say, "I hope we beat the Yankees, tonight."

 

I'm not sure why you pick apart every word I say, but I've been accused of doing the same, so...

[mvp 78]

I did not say we'd improve by letting them go, but if we spend the entire winter budget on re-signing and extending Bogey and Deverss, and are forced to fill the shoes of Wacha, Nate, JD, Starhm, Hill and in some ways Vaz, will we improve?

 

Keeping both and improving will requires some pretty significant added spending by JH, and that was my point. He may do it for a year or two, but I don't think he'll spend what most fans hopes he does.

 

Bogey and Devers are already on payroll. How would they take up the remaining payroll of all the other players leaving town?

[mvp 78]

All these one year deals scream "REBUILD!"

 

It screams "PAYROLL FLEXIBILITY" to me.

[mvp 78]

It’s hard to get any sort of read on whether or not the Sox plan to keep Bogaerts, or how badly they’ll try.

 

I assumed Story was “just in case”, but apparently there has been some concerns around MLB that he simply can’t play SS anymore, and since every article I found was over a year old, this certainly factored into the decision to sign him.

 

But even if Story isn’t the SS, and Bogaerts doesn’t come back, then what. Go all in on another free agent like Correa? Trade for a SS who needs a good home like Segura? Internal options like Downs, Ferguson or Koss? Find some arb-eligible player out pricing himself on his current team? (Newman?)

 

Who?

[Old Red]

The Red Sox are my team. I say "we" to mean the Red Sox, just like people say, "I hope we beat the Yankees, tonight."

 

I'm not sure why you pick apart every word I say, but I've been accused of doing the same, so...

It’s not my intent to pick apart what you say, but you go deeper into things than most, and have more to say, so there is more to look at, and no I’m not saying it’s a bad thing.

[Old Red]

Bogey and Devers are already on payroll. How would they take up the remaining payroll of all the other players leaving town?

 

Even if you were to give both $30M/yr it’s not like you would be paying them each $30M more.

[moonslav59]

A How the team gets better is up to Bloom, and it sounds like to me you don’t think he can make the team better with all that has to be done. If you don’t think the team will be worse off without Bogey, and Raffy then we certainly have a big disagreement, because I think the team won’t be as good just like without Betts.

 

Why not suggest what you think could be done?

 

You have $60M to spend and Bogey and Devers might cost $50-55M. How can any GM make us better by either keeping one or both or my keeping neither.

 

IMO, the only way is for... (probably 2 or more are needed)

 

1. JH to increase spending

2. Trade some or most of the top prospects

3. Count on prospects to fill key role and they come through

4. Expect the GM to find 6+ Schreibers and Refsnyders this winter

 

IMO, the team has chosen #3 and #4 and may do #1 sporadically, when they feel we are close enough to be just 1-2 key players from a great chance at a ring. Again, it's just my opinion.

 

I have suggested some plans that might work, like maybe trading Casas for a solid SP'er and then signing a cheap 1B/DH on a 1 year deal. I've suggested maybe paying less for Swanson or K Wong, instead of Bogey, so we can spend more on filling other wide open slots.

 

Again, where am even hinting at us not getting worse, if we let Bogey and or Devers go? I've NEVER said anything close to that.

 

My point is, AGAIN, bringing them back may just barely keep us even for a few years, but their cost will either force JH to spend more than he has shown he is willing to do, as in staying over the tax line for 3 or more years, or we will not be able to back-fill high need areas with expensive FAs.

 

Other options are to get help from the farm, which has produced Houck, Crawford, Duran, Dalbec and worse for over 5 years or to trade much or the farm, like DD did, and end up where we are no, 4-5 years from now.

 

What's your plan?

 

I missed another option, I'd gladly hear it.

[moonslav59]

If Bloom is thinking like you to 2024, and beyond how come 3 years ago he wasn’t thinking about 2022, and beyond like what to do with Bogey, and Raffy situations, and all the expiring contracts? He certainly hasn’t done much of anything to alleviate the problem, and now you say the Sox have to look to 2024, and beyond. Not much Baseball sense to me.

 

IMO, JH and Bloom were always looking at 2023 or 2024 as being about the time we could get highly competitive. It ta3-5 years to start seeing results from buildi ng up a farm. They thought, by spending near the limit, they could stay competitive in the rebuilding year. They missed badly in '20 and '22. There is no doubt, they missed.

 

I do not think they went all in for 2021 or 2022.

 

2023 remains to be seen.

 

Just my opinion.

[mvp 78]

Lars Anderson - hope not

 

He's already put up better numbers in AAA than Lars ever did. Lars topped out at AA.

[moonslav59]

Bogey and Devers are already on payroll. How would they take up the remaining payroll of all the other players leaving town?

 

If Bogey gets $27M, that adds $7M. If devers gets $30M, that adds $19M. That's about $25M out of the $60M winter spending budget, assuming we re-set. That allows for one more big signing or 2 moderate ones, and we have 4-5 slots to fill beyond SS.

[notin]

Who?

 

Max Ferguson. Came over in the Hosmer deal.

 

22yo in A ball. If he succeeds in AA, maybe he can make the jump…

[mvp 78]

Even if you were to give both $30M/yr it’s not like you would be paying them each $30M more.

 

Exactly.

[Hugh2]

Bogey and Devers are already on payroll. How would they take up the remaining payroll of all the other players leaving town?

 

Well Devers is going to get a hefty raise, and if Bogaerts resigns he's probably getting a 5-10 million raise. We can expect both combined to cost an additional $15 million a year or so.

[mvp 78]

Max Ferguson. Came over in the Hosmer deal.

 

22yo in A ball. If he succeeds in AA, maybe he can make the jump…

 

He has a career OPS of 699 in A ball and is a UTIL guy, not a SS. I don't know what kind of jump you are expecting. This is a Dojji level reach IMO.

[Old Red]

If Bogey gets $27M, that adds $7M. If devers gets $30M, that adds $19M. That's about $25M out of the $60M winter spending budget, assuming we re-set. That allows for one more big signing or 2 moderate ones, and we have 4-5 slots to fill beyond SS.

 

Raffy will get a raise in Arb anyways.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Old Red

[notin]

Even if you were to give both $30M/yr it’s not like you would be paying them each $30M more.

 

They currently make $31.2mill combined.

 

 

They’re probably worth $50-55mill AAV. So it’s not a great expenditure to lock up both…

[mvp 78]

Well Devers is going to get a hefty raise, and if Bogaerts resigns he's probably getting a 5-10 million raise. We can expect both combined to cost an additional $15 million a year or so.

 

So they get most of JD's money? Fine with me. Whatever is left over can go to a cheap DH.

[notin]

He has a career OPS of 699 in A ball and is a UTIL guy, not a SS. I don't know what kind of jump you are expecting. This is a Dojji level reach IMO.

 

 

I know I was reaching. Hell I thought Koss was a reach…

[mvp 78]

They currently make $31.2mill combined.

 

 

They’re probably worth $50-55mill AAV. So it’s not a great expenditure to lock up both…

 

Why? Having good players is bad?

[notin]

Why? Having good players is bad?

 

Did you misread or i mistype? I essentially said it wouldn’t take much more to keep both.

 

The real question is, should the Sox sign Bogaerts?

[Old Red]

IMO, JH and Bloom were always looking at 2023 or 2024 as being about the time we could get highly competitive. It ta3-5 years to start seeing results from buildi ng up a farm. They thought, by spending near the limit, they could stay competitive in the rebuilding year. They missed badly in '20 and '22. There is no doubt, they missed.

 

I do not think they went all in for 2021 or 2022.

 

2023 remains to be seen.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Like I’ve been asking right along don’t you think the Raffy, and the Bogey situations should have been known by now? I don’t see how you can plan going forward without it being known.

[mvp 78]

I know I was reaching…

 

It takes me back to the good ole' days.

 

Dojji should post again because someone needs to be a Nick Sogard stan on here. Tyler McDonough is due for a bounce back next year!

 

Anyone want to re-litigate Jesus Montero vs Jarrod Saltalamacchia?

[mvp 78]

Like I’ve been asking right along don’t you think the Raffy, and the Bogey situations should have been known by now? I don’t see how you can plan going forward without it being known.

 

Maybe they are following their plan and we just don't like it?

[mvp 78]

Did you misread or i mistype? I essentially said it wouldn’t take much more to keep both.

 

The real question is, should the Sox sign Bogaerts?

 

I see the confusion.

 

When you said "great expenditure" you meant "it's not an excessive expenditure." I thought you meant "it's not a very good expenditure."

[moonslav59]

Like I’ve been asking right along don’t you think the Raffy, and the Bogey situations should have been known by now? I don’t see how you can plan going forward without it being known.

 

I'm not sure, if JH and Bloom have already decided on Raffy.

 

I do think they have on Bogey, but I'm far from sure.

[notin]

Like I’ve been asking right along don’t you think the Raffy, and the Bogey situations should have been known by now? I don’t see how you can plan going forward without it being known.

 

They might be known. But - and especially Devers - these decisions are not solely up to the Red Sox…

[notin]

I see the confusion.

 

When you said "great expenditure" you meant "it's not an excessive expenditure." I thought you meant "it's not a very good expenditure."

 

Ok I see what you were thinking. Yeah bad word choice on my part…

[notin]

So they get most of JD's money? Fine with me. Whatever is left over can go to a cheap DH.

 

Brandon Belt!!