2022 Bullpen Thread

[moonslav59]

I’ll be happy with one. If things go right, we do have Whitlock and German to help back there, too. And now Ort is on the 40 man

 

I'd rather get one really good one than 2 decent ones.

[moonslav59]

Adding Whitlock to the pen should be a huge boost.

[Larry Cook]

Adding Whitlock to the pen should be a huge boost.

 

No doubt, if he returns healthy.

 

But we will still need an additional two stud right handers.

[moonslav59]

No doubt, if he returns healthy.

 

But we will still need an additional two stud right handers.

 

I seriously doubt we get 2.

 

We have too many returning pitchers and 5-6 current RP'ers that aren't going anywhere, soon.

[Nick]

There wasn’t much more Kaleb Ort could do but wait.

 

After 75 games over the past two seasons in Triple-A — most as the WooSox closer — there wasn’t much more Ort could do to earn a call-up. He’d saved 34 games in 38 opportunities. This year opponents were hitting .185 against Ort.

 

Why wasn't he called up sooner with the mess our bullpen was in?

[Bellhorn04]

There wasn’t much more Kaleb Ort could do but wait.

 

After 75 games over the past two seasons in Triple-A — most as the WooSox closer — there wasn’t much more Ort could do to earn a call-up. He’d saved 34 games in 38 opportunities. This year opponents were hitting .185 against Ort.

 

Why wasn't he called up sooner with the mess our bullpen was in?

 

As we've seen, Woo numbers don't always translate to MLB success.

 

Maybe they called him at exactly the right time.

[Bellhorn04]

It would be incredibly sweet if Ort, another extraction from the Yanks, turns out to be a good one!

[moonslav59]

It would be incredibly sweet if Ort, another extraction from the Yanks, turns out to be a good one!

 

It would be nice.

 

He's 30 years old and has 2 IP in the bigs.

 

His 4.9 BB/9 rate has always been the thorn, and this year has seen very little improvement (4.2). The 12.5 K/9 rate is nice, though.

 

Best OPSA in Woo

.539 Seabold

.546 German (.493 AA)

.548 Ort

.562 Wink

.570 Kelly

.594 Feliz

.611 Valdez (.573 MLB)

.619 Bello (.460 AA)

 

[mvp 78]

I’ll be happy with one. If things go right, we do have Whitlock and German to help back there, too. And now Ort is on the 40 man

 

It'll be interesting to see what Ort can provide. Right now, German only really is a one pitch guy. Maybe he can come in and pitch the 6th inning, but he's certainly not ready for a high leverage role in 2022. Ort is probably a better fit for this season.

[mvp 78]

Was listening to the game on the radio on 7/6 as we were driving back from MA. Just as McDonough was talking about Sawamura having a strong FIP for the previous month (or whatever time frame), Sawamura then chucked the ball straight to the backstop. McDonough chuckled and Sawamura forgot where the strike zone was for the remainder of the night.

 

I think they could get by without him and Brasier if they were going to deal for two better arms. I don't think these two guys have high upside anymore and I wouldn't trust either in any sort of leveraged situation going forward. Both have been "better" lately, but statcast isn't a fan.

[Kimmi]

I seriously doubt we get 2.

 

We have too many returning pitchers and 5-6 current RP'ers that aren't going anywhere, soon.

 

I still don't think our pen is in as much disarray as most people make it out to be. Regardless, Whitlock should be a huge improvement. Maybe Ort will be an improvement also.

 

A shoutout to the pen for 5.2 scoreless innings last night. Only 3 hits and 0 BBs given up.

[moonslav59]

It'll be interesting to see what Ort can provide. Right now, German only really is a one pitch guy. Maybe he can come in and pitch the 6th inning, but he's certainly not ready for a high leverage role in 2022. Ort is probably a better fit for this season.

 

Ort's high BB rate scares the bejesus out of me.

 

I have to think he's the first sent back, once a pitcher comes off the IL. We may not see Ort again.

[moonslav59]

I still don't think our pen is in as much disarray as most people make it out to be. Regardless, Whitlock should be a huge improvement. Maybe Ort will be an improvement also.

 

A shoutout to the pen for 5.2 scoreless innings last night. Only 3 hits and 0 BBs given up.

 

As much as some dislike Brasier, Sawamura and others, I just don't see us DFA'ing anyone, except maye Diekman, but even he has a 2 year deal, so I'm not sure Bloom cuts ties. Barnes is in a similar boat. If we can keep him on the IL through the roster crunch, it won't be an issue, but I seriously doubt we DFA him. Perhaps we can trade him for a similar salary, but I can't see a fit/match anywhere. Davis is out of options. Brasier has an option, so maybe he could be demoted, despite his recent decency.

 

I could see us trade 1-2 RP'ers (maybe Brasier and or Sawamura) for faraway prospects to make room for returning pitchers and future acquisitions for the pen.

 

8 man pen:

 

No options

Strahm

Barnes

Davis

Diekman

 

Options

Houck

Whitlock

Schreiber

Brasier

Sawamura

Taylor

Danish (IL)

Crawford, Seabold, Wink, Bello

Ort, Valdez

 

For the most part, our RP'ers without options are worse than those with options.

 

Something has to give, because there isn't room for our best 8. If we add 1-2 more arms, several good pitchers will be demoted or traded.

 

[mvp 78]

Ort's high BB rate scares the bejesus out of me.

 

I have to think he's the first sent back, once a pitcher comes off the IL. We may not see Ort again.

 

He has a better BB rate in AAA than German.

[moonslav59]

He has a better BB rate in AAA than German.

 

True. German's 17.2 IP in AAA have not mirrored his AA numbers, but he does have 23K's and .546 OPSA in AAA which is nearly identical to Ort's OPSA and K rate.

 

German had 3 BB and 18 K's in 11.1 IP at AA, this year.

[Maxbialystock]

As much as some dislike Brasier, Sawamura and others, I just don't see us DFA'ing anyone, except maye Diekman, but even he has a 2 year deal, so I'm not sure Bloom cuts ties. Barnes is in a similar boat. If we can keep him on the IL through the roster crunch, it won't be an issue, but I seriously doubt we DFA him. Perhaps we can trade him for a similar salary, but I can't see a fit/match anywhere. Davis is out of options. Brasier has an option, so maybe he could be demoted, despite his recent decency.

 

I could see us trade 1-2 RP'ers (maybe Brasier and or Sawamura) for faraway prospects to make room for returning pitchers and future acquisitions for the pen.

 

8 man pen:

 

No options

Strahm

Barnes

Davis

Diekman

 

Options

Houck

Whitlock

Schreiber

Brasier

Sawamura

Taylor

Danish (IL)

Crawford, Seabold, Wink, Bello

Ort, Valdez

 

For the most part, our RP'ers without options are worse than those with options.

 

Something has to give, because there isn't room for our best 8. If we add 1-2 more arms, several good pitchers will be demoted or traded.

 

 

Finally, someone with whom I can agree even though my perspective is a tad different. I think the bullpen will be fine when Whitlock returns--

 

--it will give Cora three good arms (Schreiber, Whitlock, and Houck) for the late innings of close games;

 

--and the other five can be some combination Davis, Diekman, Sawamura, Crawford, Strahm, Winckowski, Danish, Brasier, Valdez, and even Hill.

[moonslav59]

Finally, someone with whom I can agree even though my perspective is a tad different. I think the bullpen will be fine when Whitlock returns--

 

--it will give Cora three good arms (Schreiber, Whitlock, and Houck) for the late innings of close games;

 

--and the other five can be some combination Davis, Diekman, Sawamura, Crawford, Strahm, Winckowski, Danish, Brasier, Valdez, and even Hill.

 

That's 10 guys for 5 slots, without even mentioning Taylor, Barnes, Ort, German & Seabold.

 

I think we will deal some of this excess off- not for anything special, but just to make room for the ones we view as keepers or longer term assets.

 

Since Davis is out of options, I think we try to trade him.

I can see us DFA'ing Diekman, if we can't deal some guys away.

IMO, if healthy, these are the best 8:

 

Houck

Whitlock

Schreiber

(big gap)

Taylor (in rehab)

Strahm (struggling a bit)

Winckowski

Brasier

Sawamura

(Hill might beat out Brasier/Sawamura)

 

Those with options can be demoted until Sept. Davis, Barnes and Diekman would be lesser pitchers kept just to keep as many options on the team, but they would weaken the staff in August.

 

I keep returning to the winter 40 man roster crunch as a significant factor in what we might do at the deadline. We can't keep everyone for next year's 40 man, so make the choices, at the deadline, and trade some you feel won't b e around anyway, or better ones that will allow us to keep some promising borderline pitchers around longer.

 

Look what keeping Schreiber around after acquiring him in Feb 21 did for us, although he was not added to the 40 until May '22.

[Nick]

Ort's high BB rate scares the bejesus out of me.

 

I have to think he's the first sent back, once a pitcher comes off the IL. We may not see Ort again.

 

That begs the question, WHY IN THE f*** DO WE KEEP HIM? HE'S BEEN A CLOSER IN AAA FOR 2 YEARS. APPARENTLY HE'S NOT TAKEN TO 'COACHING'. SO YOU IMPLY WITH HIS HIGH BB RATE.

 

We saw what Brasier did last time he came into extra inning game. Gave up 2 runs. When he comes in, I'm hoping the ball finds a glove. Same goes for Sawamura.

 

They have no upside. Trot out more young guns. See what they got. We already know about Brasier and Sawamura.

[Bellhorn04]

That begs the question, WHY IN THE f*** DO WE KEEP HIM? HE'S BEEN A CLOSER IN AAA FOR 2 YEARS. APPARENTLY HE'S NOT TAKEN TO 'COACHING'. SO YOU IMPLY WITH HIS HIGH BB RATE.

 

We saw what Brasier did last time he came into extra inning game. Gave up 2 runs. When he comes in, I'm hoping the ball finds a glove. Same goes for Sawamura.

 

They have no upside. Trot out more young guns. See what they got. We already know about Brasier and Sawamura.

 

Sawamura was key to last night's win. He has a 2.78 ERA. Not sure why the knives are out...

[mvp 78]

Sawamura was key to last night's win. He has a 2.78 ERA. Not sure why the knives are out...

 

Cora only uses him as a low leverage guy

 

0.66 gmLI

 

Because he can't trust him

 

-0.13 Clutch

 

4 ShutDowns

 

6 MeltDowns

[mvp 78]

The only reliever in the BOS pen with a lower leverage index is Phillips Valdez with 0.31 and that guy would constantly be buried on the bench. Cora straight up is scared to use Sawamura in any important situations. Cora preferred to go to Barnes/Brasier/Robles/Danish/Diekman/Davis all year long. If you are a low leverage guy, shouldn't your numbers be pumped up a little?

[notin]

The only reliever in the BOS pen with a lower leverage index is Phillips Valdez with 0.31 and that guy would constantly be buried on the bench. Cora straight up is scared to use Sawamura in any important situations. Cora preferred to go to Barnes/Brasier/Robles/Danish/Diekman/Davis all year long. If you are a low leverage guy, shouldn't your numbers be pumped up a little?

 

If the Sox DFA a reliever at the deadline, Sawamura is certainly a candidate…

[Bellhorn04]

Cora only uses him as a low leverage guy

 

0.66 gmLI

 

Because he can't trust him

 

-0.13 Clutch

 

4 ShutDowns

 

6 MeltDowns

 

And last night he pitched the 6th in a tie game and the 7th ahead by 1, facing Judge, Rizzo and Stanton.

[moonslav59]

That begs the question, WHY IN THE f*** DO WE KEEP HIM?

 

Well, a very low BA and OPS Against is one reason.

[Old Red]

And last night he pitched the 6th in a tie game and the 7th ahead by 1, facing Judge, Rizzo and Stanton.

 

The BP has been worked real hard lately, and I don’t believe everyone was available. He did pitch good though.

[mvp 78]

If the Sox DFA a reliever at the deadline, Sawamura is certainly a candidate…

 

Valdez/Sawamura/Brasier/Davis/Ort(older than Danish and Davis)

 

Taylor is struggling to come back from injury. No way do they DFA him?

[mvp 78]

And last night he pitched the 6th in a tie game and the 7th ahead by 1, facing Judge, Rizzo and Stanton.

 

Wow, I should give him a cookie. I wonder how much lower his leverage was before last night...

[Bellhorn04]

Wow, I should give him a cookie. I wonder how much lower his leverage was before last night...

 

Sure, bury your head in those advanced stats and ignore that in the real world he helped win a big game against the Yankees.

[mvp 78]

Sure, bury your head in those advanced stats and ignore that in the real world he helped win a big game against the Yankees.

 

I spent the last two weeks in the real world on vacation with my family. It was horrible. Advanced stats is where it's at.

[Nick]

Cora only uses him as a low leverage guy

 

0.66 gmLI

 

Because he can't trust him

 

-0.13 Clutch

 

4 ShutDowns

 

6 MeltDowns

 

Thank you with stats.....that's what my eyes tell me. He can't be trusted. No way I bet my life on him. I would rather bet with Schreiber.