2022 Bullpen Thread

[mvp 78]

I did. The difference between the policies of the two countries is the views of our great leader.

 

Is your leader Leto II?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yeah, I think the political nature of the past few pages has been lame. We can barely discuss baseball on here rationally. When we tried to have a COVID thread, it was just a shitstorm. Let's keep the political nonsense out of it, unless we're going to talk about Leto II.

 

I'm with Nick, there's nothing political about this: as Red Sox fans, our only concern is with our team... and there is one key player who chooses to leave the team shorthanded in a big series. The Sox will replace him, but won't be as good.

 

That is just unacceptable to some fans -- maybe a lot of fans -- and there shouldn't be anything confusing about that as fans.

[mvp 78]

I'm with Nick, there's nothing political about this: as Red Sox fans, our only concern is with our team... and there is one key player who chooses to leave the team shorthanded in a big series. The Sox will replace him, but won't be as good.

 

That is just unacceptable to some fans -- maybe a lot of fans -- and there shouldn't be anything confusing about that as fans.

 

Saying that you are mad that Houck won't be able to pitch in TOR and should get vaccinated to help the team isn't political. That's fine. If someone else says that they don't care if he pitches in TOR, that's fine too. There's just a lot of other nonsense that I've seen posted over the last 18 hours that will derail this discussion. That's all.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm with Nick, there's nothing political about this: as Red Sox fans, our only concern is with our team... and there is one key player who chooses to leave the team shorthanded in a big series. The Sox will replace him, but won't be as good.

 

That is just unacceptable to some fans -- maybe a lot of fans -- and there shouldn't be anything confusing about that as fans.

 

It gets tiresome. We all know what the deal is, we don't need to hear about it over and over.

 

Houck has strong personal beliefs about it, obviously. And it's going to cost him $45,000.

[Old Red]

It gets tiresome. We all know what the deal is, we don't need to hear about it over and over.

 

Houck has strong personal beliefs about it, obviously. And it's going to cost him $45,000.

 

Even though Houck plays on a team his first priority is family, and himself. No doubt it would be better for the Sox if Houck could go to Toronto, but he can’t, and that’s the way it is.

[Thunder]

I am an advocate for leaving Houck, and everybody else, alone and letting them live their lives. Whether or not you are choosing to be vaccinated, play golf in a Saudi backed league, or literally anything else in this world, you shouldn't be chastised for your decision. Numerous factors go into the decision to be vaccinated, and I am sure Houck was no different. While I personally believe my vaccines and booster kept me out of the hospital when I had COVID in April, I never hold any ill will to those who have refused to get vaccinated. I was reluctant to get it at first too. It's not black and white. It's not even a purely political decision.

 

 

How does Houck not being vaccinated directly affect YOUR life? It doesn't. So let him be.

[a700hitter]

I am an advocate for leaving Houck, and everybody else, alone and letting them live their lives. Whether or not you are choosing to be vaccinated, play golf in a Saudi backed league, or literally anything else in this world, you shouldn't be chastised for your decision. Numerous factors go into the decision to be vaccinated, and I am sure Houck was no different. While I personally believe my vaccines and booster kept me out of the hospital when I had COVID in April, I never hold any ill will to those who have refused to get vaccinated. I was reluctant to get it at first too. It's not black and white. It's not even a purely political decision.

 

 

How does Houck not being vaccinated directly affect YOUR life? It doesn't. So let him be.

Very well said.

[Maxbialystock]

Well, that's simply wrong. Teams have to follow the CBA, and this situation is covered in it.

 

I agree completely with moonslav, but sadly believe we are both being unrealistic. The rules are the rules until they are changed.

 

Let me hasten to add that refusing to get vaccinated is the product of all the bs on the internet combined with the worst aspects of American individualism. I grew up an Army brat and then served 31 years, and shots and vaccinations were completely automatic and gratefully received by my parents and then by me and then by our kids. The science supporting vaccinations is absolutely unassailable. Moreover, not getting vaccinated puts others at risk besides the one not getting vaccinated. Just as not masking puts others at risk.

 

George Washington and others were more than happy to be vaccinated for smallpox over two centuries ago. If there had been a good flu vaccine in 1918, it would have saved millions of lives. Measles and smallpox, killers of millions, have been almost eradicated because of vaccines. Polio is rare today, but a nightmare when I was growing up.

 

We pay too much for health care in this country, but one thing we have been good at is developing new medical techniques. Dr Fauci saw the threat in January 2020 and immediately convened a conference of both government and pharmaceutical company experts and scientists, with the result that pretty good vaccines were created in record time (six months?), only to be spurned by huge chunks (so Houck is not alone) of the American people.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Maxbialystock

[notin]

I did. The difference between the policies of the two countries is the views of our great leader.

 

Why isn’t important. What is important is it’s a rule he has to follow. If Toronto had some city ordinance that all visiting athletes had to wear moose antlers, I would also expect Houck (and his teammates) to comply.

 

It seems to me you’re the closest to bringing politics into this. I just don’t like that he won’t be playing due to a personal choice…

[Maxbialystock]

I am an advocate for leaving Houck, and everybody else, alone and letting them live their lives. Whether or not you are choosing to be vaccinated, play golf in a Saudi backed league, or literally anything else in this world, you shouldn't be chastised for your decision. Numerous factors go into the decision to be vaccinated, and I am sure Houck was no different. While I personally believe my vaccines and booster kept me out of the hospital when I had COVID in April, I never hold any ill will to those who have refused to get vaccinated. I was reluctant to get it at first too. It's not black and white. It's not even a purely political decision.

 

 

How does Houck not being vaccinated directly affect YOUR life? It doesn't. So let him be.

 

Bad analogy. When it's an epidemic, the only way to deal with it is through collective action. Rampant individualism undercuts that, which is why we Americans lead the world, proportionately, in deaths from COVID. Are you also in favor in unrestricted ownership and use of AR 15's?

[dgalehouse]

My two cents worth : I think Houck has every right to decline a vaccine with possible side effects when he is at very little risk of getting seriously ill from Covid . And I think barring him from working in Toronto because of it is unreasonable and plain wrong. Especially so given the fact that the vaccine , while maybe lessening the severity of the virus , does not prevent getting and spreading it . So it makes little sense , but Canada also has a right to make their own rules. As for trading , fining or penalizing Houck because of this , that is absolutely ridiculous. That is all I have on it and I do not want to see this devolve into another Covid thread debacle .

[dgalehouse]

Bad analogy. When it's an epidemic, the only way to deal with it is through collective action. Rampant individualism undercuts that, which is why we Americans lead the world, proportionately, in deaths from COVID. Are you also in favor in unrestricted ownership and use of AR 15's?

 

Max , Please take your political views elsewhere. Keep it out of here no matter how much you are itching to argue.

[Bellhorn04]

Why isn’t important. What is important is it’s a rule he has to follow. If Toronto had some city ordinance that all visiting athletes had to wear moose antlers, I would also expect Houck (and his teammates) to comply.

 

It seems to me you’re the closest to bringing politics into this. I just don’t like that he won’t be playing due to a personal choice…

 

Well, I don't like the guy taking abuse for his personal choice. It's not something he's benefiting from, in fact he's losing 45 grand. You have no idea what has gone into his making a decision like this. All you care about is that it might negatively impact the Red Sox.

[JDavis76]

Why isn’t important. What is important is it’s a rule he has to follow. If Toronto had some city ordinance that all visiting athletes had to wear moose antlers, I would also expect Houck (and his teammates) to comply.

 

It seems to me you’re the closest to bringing politics into this. I just don’t like that he won’t be playing due to a personal choice…

 

Poor analogy, wearing moose antlers is not injecting anything into your body.

[JDavis76]

My two cents worth : I think Houck has every right to decline a vaccine with possible side effects when he is at very little risk of getting seriously ill from Covid . And I think barring him from working in Toronto because of it is unreasonable and plain wrong. Especially so given the fact that the vaccine , while maybe lessening the severity of the virus , does not prevent getting and spreading it . So it makes little sense , but Canada also has a right to make their own rules. As for trading , fining or penalizing Houck because of this , that is absolutely ridiculous. That is all I have on it and I do not want to see this devolve into another Covid thread debacle .

 

+++1

[Thunder]

Bad analogy. When it's an epidemic, the only way to deal with it is through collective action. Rampant individualism undercuts that, which is why we Americans lead the world, proportionately, in deaths from COVID. Are you also in favor in unrestricted ownership and use of AR 15's?

 

Lol. If you're trying to get a reaction out of me, it's not going to work. I care very little about politics. All I care about is being happy, and supporting others in their quest to find happiness through their optimal methods of self-expression

[Maxbialystock]

Max , Please take your political views elsewhere. Keep it out of here no matter how much you are itching to argue.

 

I do apologize for the AR 15 comment. By the way, I fired one in Vietnam after it morphed into the M16. But you are right: I was out of line.

 

But my comments on COVID are completely apolitical. To me combatting an epidemic is all about the science of vaccinations and other means of limiting the spread of the disease. I even used the example of the US Army vis a vis vaccinations. How is that political? I also have some very specific knowledge about how the US Army today has dealt with COVID, and it's very undemocratic. No voting on vaccinations.

 

I also said Houck's right not to be vaccinated is semi-supported by whatever rules MLB has. End of story.

[dgalehouse]

Lol. If you're trying to get a reaction out of me, it's not going to work. I care very little about politics. All I care about is being happy, and supporting others in their quest to find happiness through their optimal methods of self-expression

Good for you . Seriously. Some people have a hard time getting there in a long lifetime. Life truly is a gift and a real bowl of cherries. Live and laugh at it all. And always remember , don't ever take the bait.

[notin]

My two cents worth : I think Houck has every right to decline a vaccine with possible side effects when he is at very little risk of getting seriously ill from Covid . And I think barring him from working in Toronto because of it is unreasonable and plain wrong. Especially so given the fact that the vaccine , while maybe lessening the severity of the virus , does not prevent getting and spreading it . So it makes little sense , but Canada also has a right to make their own rules. As for trading , fining or penalizing Houck because of this , that is absolutely ridiculous. That is all I have on it and I do not want to see this devolve into another Covid thread debacle .

 

Houck absolutely has the right to not get vaccinated. And I have the right to disagree with his choice, even if I respect his right to make it. I simply want him eligible to pitch in Toronto and am not going to discuss pro- or anti-vaccine stances beyond that point…

[JDavis76]

I do apologize for the AR 15 comment. By the way, I fired one in Vietnam after it morphed into the M16. But you are right: I was out of line.

 

But my comments on COVID are completely apolitical. To me combatting an epidemic is all about the science of vaccinations and other means of limiting the spread of the disease. I even used the example of the US Army vis a vis vaccinations. How is that political? I also have some very specific knowledge about how the US Army today has dealt with COVID, and it's very undemocratic. No voting on vaccinations.

 

I also said Houck's right not to be vaccinated is semi-supported by whatever rules MLB has. End of story.

 

Can you please explain to me exactly how the vax is limiting the spread?

[notin]

Can you please explain to me exactly how the vax is limiting the spread?

 

No, he may not.

 

Any and all talk of vaccines is limited to the singular side effect of pitching in Toronto….

[JDavis76]

No, he may not.

 

Any and all talk of vaccines is limited to the singular side effect of pitching in Toronto….

 

Sorry, but if he's going to post false information then I am going to call him out on it.

[notin]

Poor analogy, wearing moose antlers is not injecting anything into your body.

 

Next time you read my post, just look up. That thing zipping over your head was the point…

[notin]

Sorry, but if he's going to post false information then I am going to call him out on it.

 

No. Like all of us, just bring it back to pitching in Toronto. This is a baseball forum. Not a public health forum…

[JDavis76]

No. Like all of us, just bring it back to pitching in Toronto. This is a baseball forum. Not a public health forum…

 

Well what he said was hardly related to pitching in Toronto.

[JDavis76]

Next time you read my post, just look up. That thing zipping over your head was the point…

 

Hardly.......

[notin]

Well what he said was hardly related to pitching in Toronto.

 

And we don’t want the discussion to go that way. So bring it back to baseball.

 

I should also add that technically, “hitting in Toronto” is another acceptable side effect to discuss. Maybe even “fielding in Toronto” for those who like to dive deep.

 

But that’s it…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

And as baseball fan who cares about his entire team -- any suggestion about trading Houck wasn't to penalize him for his personal choices -- but purely from a fan standpoint: I want guys on my team that I can rely on to play for my team, who will always be available... especially in the biggest games against division rivals. Period.

[Bellhorn04]

It’s a personal, and IMO, selfish choice by Houck. We can stop pretending this is the only place in the world where vaccinations are required to travel to.

 

Not to mention, how many athletes receive surgery and take on various other harsh medical procedures simply to keep playing.

 

And if I'm not mistaken, you have argued that it's up to the player whether they get those surgeries or not because it's their body.

 

So how is Houck's "selfish" decision different from the decision of a player not to get surgery?

[Bellhorn04]

And as baseball fan who cares about his entire team -- any suggestion about trading Houck wasn't to penalize him for his personal choices -- but purely from a fan standpoint: I want guys on my team that I can rely on to play for my team, who will always be available... especially in the biggest games against division rivals. Period.

 

What about guys who might be on paternity leave around the time of a big series - do you advocate trading them too?