2022 Bullpen Thread

[notin]

 

Reliever specific stats are f***ing horrible.

 

I do like the term “vulture win” for those games…

[mvp 78]

I do like the term “vulture win” for those games…

 

Yeah, baseball would be best suited to come up with cooler names for things that happen.

[Old Red]

He also has a 5.49 FIP. If the Sox were ahead more often, they'd have more saves.

 

And more blown saves.

[harmony]

He also has a 5.49 FIP. If the Sox were ahead more often, they'd have more saves.

Anthony Bender has a career FIP of 3.46 despite the cited FIP in 8.1 innings this year.

[mvp 78]

And more blown saves.

 

No. If they had the lead more often, they'd probably have less blown saves since the offense would be able to bail out the pen.

[Old Red]

No. If they had the lead more often, they'd probably have less blown saves since the offense would be able to bail out the pen.

 

That’s true, but if the Red Sox had a reliable closer they wouldn’t have as many blown saves either. They have one, but Cora doesn’t want to use him.

[mvp 78]

That’s true, but if the Red Sox had a reliable closer they wouldn’t have as many blown saves either. They have one, but Cora doesn’t want to use him.

 

Were most of the blown saves in the 9th inning when they had the lead?

[Old Red]

Were most of the blown saves in the 9th inning when they had the lead?

 

I don’t know, and I don’t count Whitlock on opening day, or anything before the 7th. Saturday, and a possible 4 out save was the last thing that comes to mind. Didn’t the original save concept start out you had to come in the 9th with the tying, or winning run on base to get the save? They should go back to that.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Sox have 5 saves, 16 holds and 6 blown saves. So their real success % is 21/27 = 77.8%

 

MLB averages: 6 saves, 13 holds, 3 blown saves. Success % = 86.4%

 

Dreaded Yankees: 9 saves, 23 holds, 3 blown saves. Success % = 91.4%

 

The Yankees are the greatest team in the history of this year.

[notin]

I don’t know, and I don’t count Whitlock on opening day, or anything before the 7th. Saturday, and a possible 4 out save was the last thing that comes to mind. Didn’t the original save concept start out you had to come in the 9th with the tying, or winning run on base to get the save? They should go back to that.

 

 

No. Coming in in the 9th was never a prerequisite for getting a save. In fact, pitching the final 3 innings regardless of the score earns the relief pitcher a save…

[Old Red]

No. Coming in in the 9th was never a prerequisite for getting a save. In fact, pitching the final 3 innings regardless of the score earns the relief pitcher a save…

 

1974 it was facing the potential tying, or winning runs, or pitching 3 perfect innings. It started in 1969, but was changed in 74.

[notin]

Were most of the blown saves in the 9th inning when they had the lead?

 

8th inning - Whitlock, Barnes

9th inning - Diekman

10th inning - Robles, Brasier

 

Brasier is also credited by B-R with a blown save in the 5th inning of a 5-2 loss to Tampa. I didn’t think a BS in the 5th was possible…

[notin]

1974 it was facing the potential tying, or winning runs, or pitching 3 perfect innings. It started in 1969, but was changed in 74.

 

It’s changed a few times…

[mvp 78]

8th inning - Whitlock, Barnes

9th inning - Diekman

10th inning - Robles, Brasier

 

Brasier is also credited by B-R with a blown save in the 5th inning of a 5-2 loss to Tampa. I didn’t think a BS in the 5th was possible…

 

BR and FanGraphs seem to tally BS's differently.

[mvp 78]

I don’t know, and I don’t count Whitlock on opening day, or anything before the 7th. Saturday, and a possible 4 out save was the last thing that comes to mind. Didn’t the original save concept start out you had to come in the 9th with the tying, or winning run on base to get the save? They should go back to that.

 

A relief pitcher recording a save must preserve his team's lead while doing one of the following:

 

Enter the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitch at least one inning.

Enter the game with the tying run in the on-deck circle, at the plate or on the bases.

Pitch at least three innings.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

8th inning - Whitlock, Barnes

9th inning - Diekman

10th inning - Robles, Brasier

 

 

Bloser by committee. Now that is a total team effort. How imperfectly human of them.

 

This pen is mightier than the sword that Cora falls on whenever he looks out there.

[notin]

Bloser by committee. Now that is a total team effort. How imperfectly human of them.

 

This pen is mightier than the sword that Cora falls on whenever he looks out there.

 

The ghost runner does make it easier to get a blown save…

[Kimmi]

Ok I get what your saying too, but I guess we’ll have just have to agree to disagree. If Frail hadn’t gone down again Whitlock would have been in the pen to start the season, and if Houck would have been vaxed Whitlock wouldn’t have made his last two starts anyway, so the plan was already deviated from, and the last report I had heard was that Whitlock wasn’t penciled in to start the next two weeks. I can’t confirm that though.

 

Unfortunately, things like injuries and now, unvaccinated players, throw a kink into plans. I love Whitlock in the pen. I also think he can be a very good starter. Even though I think his value is as a starter, I am pretty much 50-50 on what role he should have.

[Larry Cook]

Bloser by committee. Now that is a total team effort. How imperfectly human of them.

 

This pen is mightier than the sword that Cora falls on whenever he looks out there.

 

Sawumura pitched the 9th tonight in a non save situation.

[notin]

Bloser by committee. Now that is a total team effort. How imperfectly human of them.

 

This pen is mightier than the sword that Cora falls on whenever he looks out there.

 

Really only one guy failed in the 9th.

 

With ghost runners, blown saves in extra innings could be really common to the point of skewering league-wide numbers this year…

[moonslav59]

Updated. The starters are catching up.

 

Really only one guy failed in the 9th.

 

With ghost runners, blown saves in extra innings could be really common to the point of skewering league-wide numbers this year…

 

You'd think, so, and even though every extra inning game is lost by someone, these extra inning games often involve multiple blown saves as team match each other in runs scored often.

[harmony]

You'd think, so, and even though every extra inning game is lost by someone, these extra inning games often involve multiple blown saves as team match each other in runs scored often.

Only a road team's pitcher can record a blown save in extra innings.

[moonslav59]

Only a road team's pitcher can record a blown save in extra innings.

 

Yes, but they can more easily have multiple blown saves in extra innings, as we often see one team score a run, then in the bottom of the inning, the home team ties it (blown save) and on to more chances for more blown saves.

 

Before the ghost runner, my guess is the amount of multiple blown saves in extra was way less than now.

[notin]

Only a road team's pitcher can record a blown save in extra innings.

 

Yes but every extra inning game has at least one road team...

[moonslav59]

Yes but every extra inning game has at least one road team...

 

...and road teams are probably losing just as many games in extra innings as before the ghost runner rule, but now they are getting more chances for multiple blown saves in extras: that was my point.

[Bellhorn04]

...and road teams are probably losing just as many games in extra innings as before the ghost runner rule, but now they are getting more chances for multiple blown saves in extras: that was my point.

 

It's just further proof of how silly the stats for saves and blown saves are.

 

Maybe someone will start separately tracking "Blown Saves due to Manfred Man".

[moonslav59]

Updated. The starters are catching up.

 

It's just further proof of how silly the stats for saves and blown saves are.

 

Maybe someone will start separately tracking "Blown Saves due to Manfred Man".

 

I'd reword that to...

 

"Manfred Man Blows (saves)"

[dgalehouse]

The Manfred man does not count as an earned run, but it is counted as a blown save or a loss. I guess they could change that if they cared to , but it probably doesn't happen often enough to make much difference. That said , I despise the Manfred man rule. I also despise having three wild cards. It is conceivable that a team could finish fourth in a five team division and still get another shot to get hot in the post season. A cheap , money grabbing gimmick. Unfortunately, my despising these things does not matter. And so it goes.

[JDavis76]

The Manfred man does not count as an earned run, but it is counted as a blown save or a loss. I guess they could change that if they cared to , but it probably doesn't happen often enough to make much difference. That said , I despise the Manfred man rule. I also despise having three wild cards. It is conceivable that a team could finish fourth in a five team division and still get another shot to get hot in the post season. A cheap , money grabbing gimmick. Unfortunately, my despising these things does not matter. And so it goes.

 

I agree with you on both accounts.

[moonslav59]

The Manfred man does not count as an earned run, but it is counted as a blown save or a loss. I guess they could change that if they cared to , but it probably doesn't happen often enough to make much difference. That said , I despise the Manfred man rule. I also despise having three wild cards. It is conceivable that a team could finish fourth in a five team division and still get another shot to get hot in the post season. A cheap , money grabbing gimmick. Unfortunately, my despising these things does not matter. And so it goes.

 

Agreed. It's not like 14 inning games were killing baseball.

 

Baseball plays 162 games for a reason. It takes about that many games to take the luck factor out of the equation. Adding the 5th WC team negates some of that.

 

At least MLB is not like the NBA and NHL where more teams make it than don't.