MLB to ban the shift

[moonslav59]

I find it hard to believe the majority of fans agree with me.

 

 

[notin]

I read an article that suggested the move toward banning the shift is from the players. Freddie Freeman was making some comments about how it's not easy to change one's approach to go the other way because of how hard pitchers are throwing et cetera.

 

Then there's our old friend, MLB consultant Theo Epstein, who was hired to assist with possible refinements in the game, and I think this was one of the biggest issues he's been looking at.

 

See?

 

No unwashed masses…

[Bellhorn04]

See?

 

No unwashed masses…

 

In that poll that MVP cited:

 

36% in favor

44% against

20% undecided

 

Now, if we can turn 3/4 of the undecideds into yes votes, it's 51-49 in favor!

 

I'm just trying to have some fun with this nonsense.

[notin]

In that poll that MVP cited:

 

36% in favor

44% against

20% undecided

 

Now, if we can turn 3/4 of the undecideds into yes votes, it's 51-49 in favor!

 

I'm just trying to have some fun with this nonsense.

 

But what we learned is all of us together matter less than Freddie Freeman…

[moonslav59]

But what we learned is all of us together matter less than Freddie Freeman…

 

...and the nowners.

[moonslav59]

...and the nowners.

 

The edit function is messing up, lately.

 

Maybe "nowners" is a better word than owners, anyway.

[Old Red]

Of course, but what makes you think the shift only took hits away from him and didn't give any back?

 

I think there are actually stats on hitting against the shift.

 

856 more hits were taken away from the s*** than beating the shift in 2021 according to Bill James.

[mvp 78]

I read an article that suggested the move toward banning the shift is from the players. Freddie Freeman was making some comments about how it's not easy to change one's approach to go the other way because of how hard pitchers are throwing et cetera.

 

Then there's our old friend, MLB consultant Theo Epstein, who was hired to assist with possible refinements in the game, and I think this was one of the biggest issues he's been looking at.

 

I would say that the conversations probably have come from within MLB and not from fans. I don't think they've done focus groups or even considered what fans actually want here.

[Old Red]

In that poll that MVP cited:

 

36% in favor

44% against

20% undecided

 

Now, if we can turn 3/4 of the undecideds into yes votes, it's 51-49 in favor!

 

I'm just trying to have some fun with this nonsense.

 

Maybe we should just have the shift, and pitch clock in one league, but not in the other. Stupid yes, but so hasn’t having the DH in only one league all these years.

[mvp 78]

But what we learned is all of us together matter less than Freddie Freeman…

 

This is true.

[Bellhorn04]

856 more hits were taken away from the s*** than beating the shift in 2021 according to Bill James.

 

And another Freudian slip!

[mvp 78]

Maybe we should just have the shift, and pitch clock in one league, but not in the other. Stupid yes, but so hasn’t having the DH in only one league all these years.

 

AL should ban the shift, add the pitch clock, add bigger bases and keep the DH. NL can be the "traditional" league. ChiSox also have to have one $1 beer night per year.

[Old Red]

AL should ban the shift, add the pitch clock, add bigger bases and keep the DH. NL can be the "traditional" league. ChiSox also have to have one $1 beer night per year.

 

How about Sunday doubleheaders for the price of one?

[mvp 78]

How about Sunday doubleheaders for the price of one?

 

That would be unreasonable to the owners unless the ticket prices are x2.

[mvp 78]

I actually went to see a triple header at McCoy once. It was an originally scheduled double header, but a third game was added because the night before was a tie game that went into a rain delay. They decided to just finish it up the next day.

[notin]

856 more hits were taken away from the s*** than beating the shift in 2021 according to Bill James.

 

That’s the downside to the shift - it works.

 

But it’s part of the game. And just because Freddie Freeman can’t adjust is no reason to ban it.

 

The first year pitchers threw sliders, I bet hits went down on that pitch, too. Should MLB have banned the slider?

[notin]

AL should ban the shift, add the pitch clock, add bigger bases and keep the DH. NL can be the "traditional" league. ChiSox also have to have one $1 beer night per year.

 

Pitch clock. Just use the one in the rulebook.

Universal DH. Pitchers don’t take hitting seriously, and it does hurt the game.

I don’t care about base size. Go wild here.

I’m for the International Draft, as it would eliminate a lot (but not all) of the corruption around and exploitation of Dominican 13 and 14 year olds…

[Bellhorn04]

That’s the downside to the shift - it works.

 

But it’s part of the game. And just because Freddie Freeman can’t adjust is no reason to ban it.

 

The first year pitchers threw sliders, I bet hits went down on that pitch, too. Should MLB have banned the slider?

 

Just to play devil's advocate, at least throwing a slider requires physical skill by the player.

 

The shift involves no skills of players. They don't even decide where to position themselves. It's all done by the team's data analysts.

[notin]

Just to play devil's advocate, at least throwing a slider requires physical skill by the player.

 

The shift involves no skills of players. They don't even decide where to position themselves. It's all done by the team's data analysts.

 

 

Isn’t fielding in itself a skill? Just because a ball is hit directly at you doesn’t make it an automatic out. (Infield fly situations excepted.)

 

And those analytics just place you in the best area, not where the ball will definitively be hit…

[a700hitter]

I would hope that the players would eventually adjust to the shift and the new generation of Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn’s would start having success at putting the ball in play and using the whole field. It is hard for me to fathom that the adjustment hasn’t already happened. Why players won’t take the free base by laying down a bunt is beyond me.

[Bellhorn04]

Isn’t fielding in itself a skill? Just because a ball is hit directly at you doesn’t make it an automatic out. (Infield fly situations excepted.)

 

It's the positioning that's not a skill. That's all we're talking about.

[notin]

I would hope that the players would eventually adjust to the shift and the new generation of Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn’s would start having success at putting the ball in play and using the whole field. It is hard for me to fathom that the adjustment hasn’t already happened. Why players won’t take the free base by laying down a bunt is beyond me.

 

I don’t expect free swinging sluggers like Freddie Freeman or even Rafael Devers to adjust. But if teams start using more hitters like Luis Arraez to beat the shift, I’m ok with it…

[Bellhorn04]

(More devil's advocacy.)

 

There are reasons that hitters don't try to "adapt" to the shift.

 

1) Bunting and/or going the other way is much harder than people realize, especially when pitchers are throwing high 90's with movement.

2) Hitters are afraid of messing up their swings.

3) Instead of going the other way, they swing harder with more of an uppercut and try to hit more home runs.

 

Run scoring hasn't changed that much because of the shift. It's still around 9 runs per average game. But there are more homers and a ton more K's. Much fewer balls in play.

[notin]

It's the positioning that's not a skill. That's all we're talking about.

 

But without the fielding, it’s nothing.

 

I’m also not sure why being a skill matters. By that logic, MLB should ban intentional walks. No skill involved. And not exciting. And hey, they prevent hits. The trifecta of bannability!!

 

 

The job of a defense is to prevent offense, right? So what’s the basis for banning the shift? It works too well?

[a700hitter]

I don’t expect free swinging sluggers like Freddie Freeman or even Rafael Devers to adjust. But if teams start using more hitters like Luis Arraez to beat the shift, I’m ok with it…

Even superstars should be able to lay down a bunt once in a while to keep the defense honest.

[notin]

(More devil's advocacy.)

 

There are reasons that hitters don't try to "adapt" to the shift.

 

1) Bunting and/or going the other way is much harder than people realize, especially when pitchers are throwing high 90's with movement.

2) Hitters are afraid of messing up their swings.

3) Instead of going the other way, they swing harder with more of an uppercut and try to hit more home runs.

 

Run scoring hasn't changed that much because of the shift. It's still around 9 runs per average game. But there are more homers and a ton more K's. Much fewer balls in play.

 

Well, that’s why “some” hitters don’t adapt.

 

But we also keep worrying about the Matt Olson’s of the world and ignore how many Adam Frazier’s already do this.

 

Should the game cater all its rules around left-handed sluggers? Are LHH now upset that their once advantageous genetic quirk has now been normalized?

[moonslav59]

Even superstars should be able to lay down a bunt once in a while to keep the defense honest.

 

Exactly. A few good bunts and the stop the shift.

 

A few points:

 

It’s not just bunting: it’s directional bunting.

 

You have to be able to do it successfully to the point where you do better than hitting into the shift- maybe 4 out of 10 times or 3 out of 10 with a bunt dbl thrown in there.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, that’s why “some” hitters don’t adapt.

 

But we also keep worrying about the Matt Olson’s of the world and ignore how many Adam Frazier’s already do this.

 

Should the game cater all its rules around left-handed sluggers? Are LHH now upset that their once advantageous genetic quirk has now been normalized?

 

Why wouldn't shifting work exactly the same against RHH?

[a700hitter]

Exactly. A few good bunts and the stop the shift.

 

A few points:

 

It’s not just bunting: it’s directional bunting.

 

You have to be able to do it successfully to the point where you do better than hitting into the shift- maybe 4 out of 10 times or 3 out of 10 with a bunt dbl thrown in there.

if a big lug like Papi could drop a bunt down 3B, I think most major leaguers could do it.

[moonslav59]

if a big lug like Papi could drop a bunt down 3B, I think most major leaguers could do it.

 

He didn’t do it.