Red Sox trade Hunter Renfroe in trade involving Jackie Bradley Jr

[mvp 78]

Gee he’s doing as well as a unit that struggles to score so badly that you wouldn’t notice a difference if MLB replaced all the basepaths with quicksand…

 

The Sox are a team of base cloggers.

[JDavis76]

Renfroe now has 0.5 fWAR and would have the 4th highest OPS on the team. He has as many HR's as the top 2 Sox.

 

.........

Edited May 12, 2022 by JDavis76

[JDavis76]

The Sox are a team of base cloggers.

 

Amongst other things.......

[moonslav59]

Amongst other things.......

 

Like base avoiders.

[notin]

The Sox are a team of base cloggers.

 

And quicksand would solve that.

 

Assuming life was like it is in cartoons..

[mvp 78]

And quicksand would solve that.

 

Assuming life was like it is in cartoons..

 

Just flush the bottom third of the lineup and start over IMO.

[Jasonbay44]

So according to baseball reference, I noticed JBJ has a positive 0.6 WAR, which doesn’t sound amazing or anything, but when you factor in he has an OPS of only .576, it has me asking the question: how good has he been defensively this season to make himself still a net positive? That is impressive

[redsoxrules]

He was at 0.2 before that game he homered in the other night. A couple of 0 for 4 nights and he will be right back there. That's why I'm not a fan of these advance metrics. If you had 9 Jackie Bradley on your team you wouldn't win much games. Saving all those runs means crap if you can't score any.

[redsoxrules]

Renfroe is on pace for 35+ HR and a 5 WAR. So much for last year being a fluke season. A lot of season left and he may falter but he will definitely have a much better offensive year than JBJ

[Larry Cook]

Renfroe is on pace for 35+ HR and a 5 WAR. So much for last year being a fluke season. A lot of season left and he may falter but he will definitely have a much better offensive year than JBJ

 

Bradley’s best ad a late inning defensive replacement only!

 

But Hang’em Chaim just think Duran is ready yet, so we have to endure more Bradley,

[notin]

Renfroe is on pace for 35+ HR and a 5 WAR. So much for last year being a fluke season. A lot of season left and he may falter but he will definitely have a much better offensive year than JBJ

 

JBJ wasn’t brought in to hit like Renfroe…

[Old Red]

JBJ wasn’t brought in to hit like Renfroe…

 

Fans are still scratching their heads as to why JBJ was brought here. The runs that JBJ would save over Renfroe won’t be close to the amount of runs that Renfroe will produce over JBJ. It was a bad trade when it was made, and is a bad trade now.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Old Red

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Fans are still scratching their heads as to why JBJ was brought here. The runs that JBJ would save over Renfroe won’t be close to the amount of runs that Renfroe will produce over JBJ. It was a bad trade when it was made, and is a bad trade now.

 

The average fans scratches, but anyone who's been on this board the past half year is astute enough to know Renfroe was traded for prospects.

 

The reason Milwaukee was willing to give up the two guys they did was obviously contingent on Boston taking Bradley's salary back. Bloom essentially bought Binelas and Hamilton for what it cost to pay Bradley for a year. It is similar to paying Ottavino's contract last season to acquire Frank German.

 

You may not ever get over it, since JBJ also fills the vacancy in RF, but the deal was never a big leaguer in exchange for a big leaguer.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Fans are still scratching their heads as to why JBJ was brought here. The runs that JBJ would save over Renfroe won’t be close to the amount of runs that Renfroe will produce over JBJ. It was a bad trade when it was made, and is a bad trade now.

 

I have been arguing throughout his Red Sox career that he just never made enough defensive plays that other ML outfielders don't make to offset his terrible at bats. I recall getting push back on that opinion at the time.

 

But this was not JBJ for Renfroe. there were prospects involved.

[notin]

Fans are still scratching their heads as to why JBJ was brought here. The runs that JBJ would save over Renfroe won’t be close to the amount of runs that Renfroe will produce over JBJ. It was a bad trade when it was made, and is a bad trade now.

 

 

Even if you didn’t like the trade, you have to be pretty clueless to still scratch your head about why it was made. Last year’s outfield play was very weak.

 

Couple that with prospects and JBJ had plenty of reasons to show he should bounce back and it is obvious why it was made…

[Old Red]

I have been arguing throughout his Red Sox career that he just never made enough defensive plays that other ML outfielders don't make to offset his terrible at bats. I recall getting push back on that opinion at the time.

 

But this was not JBJ for Renfroe. there were prospects involved.

 

Prospects, prospects, prospects, or as I say suspects, suspects, suspects who may never play 1 inning in a Red Sox uniform, and that is one reason I don’t trust Bloom with all of the what could be lots of comings, and goings this offseason to build a good team.

[notin]

Prospects, prospects, prospects, or as I say suspects, suspects, suspects who may never play 1 inning in a Red Sox uniform, and that is one reason I don’t trust Bloom with all of the what could be lots of comings, and goings this offseason to build a good team.

 

Well, bear in mind your initial take on this trade was about RBIs. About a quarter of the way through the season, Renfroe only has 5 more…

[Old Red]

Well, bear in mind your initial take on this trade was about RBIs. About a quarter of the way through the season, Renfroe only has 5 more…

 

My initial take on this trade after 700 voiced his opinion after the trade was made that it was a bad trade, and didn’t make sense. You wanted JBJ back, and to also keep Renfroe, which would have made even less sense especially with JBJ’s contract.

[notin]

My initial take on this trade after 700 voiced his opinion after the trade was made that it was a bad trade, and didn’t make sense. You wanted JBJ back, and to also keep Renfroe, which would have made even less sense especially with JBJ’s contract.

 

No. Bear in mind that we didn’t have Story yet, so Kike made the most sense at 2b…

[redsoxrules]

Well, bear in mind your initial take on this trade was about RBIs. About a quarter of the way through the season, Renfroe only has 5 more…

 

Rbi is a poor measure to value an offensive player. The fact that Renfroe has 8 more HRs tells you right there. Not his fault that in all those HR that there wasn't anymore runners on base.

[Bellhorn04]

Renfroe has one tool - power. He can crush it. The rest of his game is not much.

[moonslav59]

Renfroe has one tool - power. He can crush it. The rest of his game is not much.

 

 

Two tools: power and strong arm, though not always that accurate.

 

Let's not forget, the guy has a .297 career OBP and .236 BA.

 

His .261 BA & .313 OBP since the start or 2021 may or may not be the "new Renfroe," but some players do improve after age 29.

[Old Red]

Two tools: power and strong arm, though not always that accurate.

 

Let's not forget, the guy has a .297 career OBP and .236 BA.

 

His .261 BA & .313 OBP since the start or 2021 may or may not be the "new Renfroe," but some players do improve after age 29.

 

Kike is a career 239 hitter same as Renfroe.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Kike is a career 239 hitter same as Renfroe.

 

Ya, but which one married Miss Universe Puerto Rico?

[Bellhorn04]

Kike is a career 239 hitter same as Renfroe.

 

Right. Kike is basically an average hitter and excellent fielder.

[notin]

Right. Kike is basically an average hitter and excellent fielder.

 

Kike is an excellent fielder at multiple positions and an above average to passable one at the rest…

 

(Except catcher.)

[moonslav59]

Kike is a career 239 hitter same as Renfroe.

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with it, but Kike does have about 20 points on Renfroe with OBP, and he was decent power, too... not Renfroe power, but his defense way outshines Renfroe's.

 

Renfroe's rbi total, last year, was largely a result of having good hitters in front of him.

 

He placed 13th in team BA with RISP. (7th among starters) Even Vaz had a batter BA w RISP.

 

His OPS was better without men in scoring position.

 

Also, for someone who harps on career numbers vs recent 3-4 year stretches, you sure seem to be focusing on Renfroe's last 2 seasons. Before coming to BOS, he was a .228 hitter with a .290 OBP, coming from a team that did not want to pay him $3M for a season.

 

Yes, he averaged 85 rbi per 162 games, but only 49 were runs knocked in by players not named Renfroe.

Edited May 22, 2022 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

I'm not sure what that has to do with it, but Kike does have about 20 points on Renfroe with OBP, and he was decent power, too... not Renfroe power, but his defense way outshines Renfroe's.

 

Renfroe's rbi total, last year, was largely a result of having good hitters in front of him.

 

He placed 13th in team BA with RISP. (7th among starters) Even Vaz had a batter BA w RISP.

 

His OPS was better without men in scoring position.

 

Just pointing out that Kike is a career 239 hitter like you pointing it Renfroe is a 239, which neither one is very good. Every good RBI man needs good hitters in front of him getting on base. I’m not sticking up for Renfroe, but amazes me how many were down on Renfroe such as he was such a bad OF, and being a bargain at $3M wouldn’t be worth $7M, so now we got JBJ instead.

[moonslav59]

Just pointing out that Kike is a career 239 hitter like you pointing it Renfroe is a 239, which neither one is very good. Every good RBI man needs good hitters in front of him getting on base. I’m not sticking up for Renfroe, but amazes me how many were down on Renfroe such as he was such a bad OF, and being a bargain at $3M wouldn’t be worth $7M, so now we got JBJ instead.

 

I'd have much preferred Renfroe at $7M than JBJ at even the same money, despite his poor defense in an important position like RF in Fenway.

 

You do seem to be "sticking up for Renfroe," and I'm not sure why you are denying you are.

 

To me, this debate turned into the value of rbi's then HRs vs other stats, and not necessarily "metrics," like you claimed.

 

OBP is not a metric. Good defense is not a metric. BA and speed are not metrics.

 

Renfroe had power and a strong arm that wasn't always that accurate. His arm helped mitigate some of his defensive deficiencies, especially in Fenway, but he was not as big of an overall plus, as many felt he was. At $3M, yes. At $7M, not so much.

 

I was fine with trading Renfroe and saving $7M, but not for a higher priced guy like JBJ.

 

To me, the prospects better pan out, of this was a bad trade. Unlike you, I see value in prospects, before they make the bigs.

 

All stars were once prospects.

[redsoxrules]

I'm not sure what that has to do with it, but Kike does have about 20 points on Renfroe with OBP, and he was decent power, too... not Renfroe power, but his defense way outshines Renfroe's.

 

Renfroe's rbi total, last year, was largely a result of having good hitters in front of him.

 

He placed 13th in team BA with RISP. (7th among starters) Even Vaz had a batter BA w RISP.

 

His OPS was better without men in scoring position.

 

Also, for someone who harps on career numbers vs recent 3-4 year stretches, you sure seem to be focusing on Renfroe's last 2 seasons. Before coming to BOS, he was a .228 hitter with a .290 OBP, coming from a team that did not want to pay him $3M for a season.

 

Yes, he averaged 85 rbi per 162 games, but only 49 were runs knocked in by players not named Renfroe.

 

Renfroe prior to 2 years ago had 26,26 amd 33HR seasons. People act like last year was the first time for him doing that. It was not a fluke