10/22 ALCS Game 6 @ Astros

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Isn't the fact that they sucked before and weren't too go afterwards make that season even more special or "impossible?"

 

The reason the 67s were more impossible than the 21s is because they had losing records the previous eight years, including 9th the last two, and 8th, 7th and 8th right before that. The 21s had eight World Series champions from three years before, and 10 guys with rings. The 67s had Elston Howard for two months.

 

However, the 1967 Red Sox also had the best player in baseball and almost history; only one guy all-time ever had a higher single-season WAR than Yaz' 12.4 (ironically, that man was once a lefty pitcher who won three World Series for Boston). The 67s also had the AL Cy Young winner, Jim Lonborg. Yaz and Lonnie were pretty good before '67, but the timing of both erupting to dominate both sides of the ball in the same year on the same team made their season more improbable than anything.

 

Despite all that evidence, the Red Sox won 24 games a year ago... while the guys wearing the current laundry finished yesterday with a total of 98 wins. That's just impeccable.

[Old Red]

The Impossible Dream season is a little over-glorified, IMHO. It was a great season, but they didn't win the Series, and the succeeding years of 1968-1971 were nothing special at all.

 

The 1967 team didn’t win the WS, because they faced a guy named Bob Gibson who pitched 3 complete games against them, and only gave up 3 runs. I don’t know if the Red Sox ever had a team that could have beat him unless it was one of Ted’s teams. Over glorified? 1967 was the start of Red Sox Nation, and brought life back to Fenway that had been pretty dead for years.

[Old Red]

The reason the 67s were more impossible than the 21s is because they had losing records the previous eight years, including 9th the last two, and 8th, 7th and 8th right before that. The 21s had eight World Series champions from three years before, and 10 guys with rings. The 67s had Elston Howard for two months.

 

However, the 1967 Red Sox also had the best player in baseball and almost history; only one guy all-time ever had a higher single-season WAR than Yaz' 12.4 (ironically, that man was once a lefty pitcher who won three World Series for Boston). The 67s also had the AL Cy Young winner, Jim Lonborg. Yaz and Lonnie were pretty good before '67, but the timing of both erupting to dominate both sides of the ball in the same year on the same team made their season more improbable than anything.

 

Despite all that evidence, the Red Sox won 24 games a year ago... while the guys wearing the current laundry finished yesterday with a total of 98 wins. That's just impeccable.

 

Won 24 games a year ago? The team sucked, but they only played 60, and this years team did not have all the scrap heap players that played last year.Not a good comparison between the 20, and 21 teams nor were the circumstances that the games were played. Comparing the 2020 season to anything is scraping the bottom of the barrel, and to top it all off JD got his binky back this year, which he was lost without it last year.

Edited October 24, 2021 by Old Red

[a700hitter]

The Impossible Dream season is a little over-glorified, IMHO. It was a great season, but they didn't win the Series, and the succeeding years of 1968-1971 were nothing special at all.

The 67 Season was a defining season that completely changed the trajectory of the franchise. They went from perennial losers to a team that ran off a long string of winning seasons, including the ‘68 -71 seasons which you characterized as “nothing special at all”.

[moonslav59]

The 67 Season was a defining season that completely changed the trajectory of the franchise. They went from perennial losers to a team that ran off a long string of winning seasons, including the ‘68 -71 seasons which you characterized as “nothing special at all”.

 

True. They hadn't had a winning season since 1957 and lost 100 games in 1965. That 1967 season set off a pretty long run of near uninterrupted winning seasons. The strike season of 1981 was the first, and we never had two losing seasons in a row, until 2014-2015.

[Bellhorn04]

The 67 Season was a defining season that completely changed the trajectory of the franchise. They went from perennial losers to a team that ran off a long string of winning seasons, including the ‘68 -71 seasons which you characterized as “nothing special at all”.

 

1968 17 back

1969 22 back

1970 21 back

1971 18 back

 

4 straight seasons about 20 games out of first. To me that's nothing special.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Won 24 games a year ago? The team sucked, but they only played 60, and this years team did not have all the scrap heap players that played last year.Not a good comparison between the 20, and 21 teams nor were the circumstances that the games were played. Comparing the 2020 season to anything is scraping the bottom of the barrel, and to top it all off JD got his binky back this year, which he was lost without it last year.

 

In my post I specifically wrote "the guys wearing the current laundry" to make sure to differentiate them from people (mostly posing as pitchers) that Bloom gave uniforms to a year ago. 2020 was the bottom of the barrel for a lot of reasons -- and I've been watching since '67 -- but the fact is that this year's team won 74 more games...

 

It's seriously doubtful the '21 Red Sox could've won more games if Bloom had gone out last winter and signed all the free agents posters (myself included) were hoping for.

[Bellhorn04]

In my post I specifically wrote "the guys wearing the current laundry" to make sure to differentiate them from people (mostly posing as pitchers) that Bloom gave uniforms to a year ago. 2020 was the bottom of the barrel for a lot of reasons -- and I've been watching since '67 -- but the fact is that this year's team won 74 more games...

 

74 more! That must be the biggest improvement in sports history.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1968 17 back

1969 22 back

1970 21 back

1971 18 back

 

4 straight seasons about 20 games out of first. To me that's nothing special.

 

To me as a kid it was, at the time. The Sox had an exciting team of young stars who always won more than they lost. For young fans without color TV, going to Fenway Park was like Dorothy waking up in Oz. The standings, of course, were more a reflection of the Reserve Clause, as Detroit won with a starting nine that was basically together for a decade, and Baltimore built a dynasty and ran away from everyone.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

74 more! That must be the biggest improvement in sports history.

 

With a team that was decimated by Covid the year after the pandemic-shortchanged season!

[Old Red]

In my post I specifically wrote "the guys wearing the current laundry" to make sure to differentiate them from people (mostly posing as pitchers) that Bloom gave uniforms to a year ago. 2020 was the bottom of the barrel for a lot of reasons -- and I've been watching since '67 -- but the fact is that this year's team won 74 more games...

 

It's seriously doubtful the '21 Red Sox could've won more games if Bloom had gone out last winter and signed all the free agents posters (myself included) were hoping for.

 

But you keep leaving out the most important fact. They only played 60 games last year. I repeat 60 games last year in a season that really wasn’t a season. You can’t compare any season in recent times to what last year was.

[Old Red]

1968 17 back

1969 22 back

1970 21 back

1971 18 back

 

4 straight seasons about 20 games out of first. To me that's nothing special.

 

That’s what made 1967 so special, because of what came before, and what came after, and what Red Sox Nation is now.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But you keep leaving out the most important fact. They only played 60 games last year. I repeat 60 games last year in a season that really wasn’t a season. You can’t compare any season in recent times to what last year was.

 

Thanks for the reminder. I watch or listen to all the games. The comparison for me as a fan is that I witnessed 24 Ws last year and 98 Ws this year.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s what made 1967 so special, because of what came before, and what came after, and what Red Sox Nation is now.

 

I became a fan shortly after 1967.

 

There was a lot of excitement, and an incredible amount of heartbreak, in the years between 1968 and 2003.

 

It wasn't until Henry bought the team and we started winning championships that the cloud of heartbreak and frustration was finally lifted.

 

Yaz was my favorite player, but I've always felt badly for him for the painful near-misses he went through. Then again, I felt like I went through them too.

[Old Red]

Thanks for the reminder. I watch or listen to all the games. The comparison for me as a fan is that I witnessed 24 Ws last year and 98 Ws this year.

 

But they played 102 more games this year, and last season you can’t compare to anything even though you do it. I don’t believe they have never had a 24 win season before except for last year, and that’s why you can’t compare it to anything else, but I guess it makes you feel better, so go for it.

[Maxbialystock]

Brilliant and genius!

 

Way to go, max!

 

Thanks, moonslav. Clearly Old Red has no response to it. Indeed he's now changed subjects to talking about 1967 as though it had some relevance to the job Cora did this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Thanks, moonslav. Clearly Old Red has no response to it. Indeed he's now changed subjects to talking about 1967 as though it had some relevance to the job Cora did this year.

 

He's allowed to talk about two different things, no?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But they played 102 more games this year, and last season you can’t compare to anything even though you do it. I don’t believe they have never had a 24 win season before except for last year, and that’s why you can’t compare it to anything else, but I guess it makes you feel better, so go for it.

 

Thanks for the permission; I know a few LA fans who still feel that the Dodgers' 2020 title was legitimate, too.

[moonslav59]

1968 17 back

1969 22 back

1970 21 back

1971 18 back

 

4 straight seasons about 20 games out of first. To me that's nothing special.

 

When you just came off 9 losing seasons, it felt special.

[Bellhorn04]

When you just came off 9 losing seasons, it felt special.

 

I get that. But I think that's why it's a little overhyped, too.

[Old Red]

Thanks for the permission; I know a few LA fans who still feel that the Dodgers' 2020 title was legitimate, too.

 

I get where you are coming from, but I just don’t think the 2020 season can be compared to anything in recent memory, because it was a season like nothing before. You don’t need my permission, but you’re welcome.

[moonslav59]

I get that. But I think that's why it's a little overhyped, too.

 

It was kind of shocking after being so bad for so long, and the fact that just 1 team makes it. It was harder, then.

 

I think the hype was and still is appropriate.

[Bellhorn04]

It was kind of shocking after being so bad for so long, and the fact that just 1 team makes it. It was harder, then.

 

I think the hype was and still is appropriate.

 

I wonder if any other single team in pro sports history has ever had so much attention for a season in which they didn't win a championship.

[Old Red]

I wonder if any other single team in pro sports history has ever had so much attention for a season in which they didn't win a championship.

 

I think for a lot of people that just getting there in the WS, and taking the Cardinals to 7 games, and losing to the great Bob Gibson was good enough.

[Bellhorn04]

I think for a lot of people that just getting there in the WS, and taking the Cardinals to 7 games, and losing to the great Bob Gibson was good enough.

 

But how many more years was it before Sox fans were being reminded again that they hadn't won since 1918, that the Yankees still owned us and we were still basically lovable losers?

 

We had to wait nearly 4 more decades, until 2004, before we could really say 'now I can die in peace'. And of course many never made it that far.

[Old Red]

But how many more years was it before Sox fans were being reminded again that they hadn't won since 1918, that the Yankees still owned us and we were still basically lovable losers?

 

We had to wait nearly 4 more decades, until 2004, before we could really say 'now I can die in peace'. And of course many never made it that far.

 

All true. We were never close in 1967, because they had Gibson, and came close in 75 against the Big Red Machine, but Rice being out hurt that year, and the Bucky F’n Dent shot in 78, so it did take a long time.

[moonslav59]

I wonder if any other single team in pro sports history has ever had so much attention for a season in which they didn't win a championship.

 

They won the American League Championship!

 

Good point, though.

[moonslav59]

All true. We were never close in 1967, because they had Gibson, and came close in 75 against the Big Red Machine, but Rice being out hurt that year, and the Bucky F’n Dent shot in 78, so it did take a long time.

 

Facing Gibson 3 times made it pretty impossible, but we did win 3 of the other 4 games and had outscored them going into game 7.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They won the American League Championship!

 

Good point, though.

 

Hard to believe this, but there was a time in history when winning the pennant was actually held in higher regard than the World Series. It was certainly before television -- where viewers of all ages are now inundated with and indoctrinated by pile-up celebrations in various sports and levels in stadiums and arenas every month of the year.

 

Finishing first after battling familiar and sometimes hated rivals for six months and 154 games was more important than a single series that decided which of two clubs was hotter in one October week. Perceptions really turned post-WW II, with more leisure time, the pursuit of happiness, technology, and certainly, with the almost annual WS showdown for bragging rights of New York, New York -- usually, the Yankees vs. Brooklyn.

[a700hitter]

1968 17 back

1969 22 back

1970 21 back

1971 18 back

 

4 straight seasons about 20 games out of first. To me that's nothing special.

You obviously weren’t a big baseball fan in the 60’s if you don’t understand. There was a term that was used to describe the better teams (I.e., the teams that finished in the top half of the league). They were called 1st Division teams. After 1967, the Red Sox became a perennial 1st Division team. And although the GB stats are not impressive, playing .500 ball was a sea change. Prior to ‘67, there wasn’t even hope of being competitive. The chance of a competitive season ended after opening day.