10/19 Astros @ SOX ALCS GAME 4 8:08PM

[d-money]

 

How confident were you in ERod a couple starts ago? Or, even his last start?

 

You always seem so doom & gloom.

 

History dude. The guy has history of not pitching well in the playoffs. Again all the momentum is riding with the stros now. Sox need to take it away early. They got the pitching matchup to their favor unless sale finally grows a sack and pitches well.

Edited October 20, 2021 by d-money

[moonslav59]

 

History dude. The guy has history of not pitching well in the playoffs. Again all the momentum is riding with the stros now. Sox need to take it away early. They got the pitching matchup to their favor unless sale finally grows a sack and pitches well.

 

Again, always looking at the bad.

 

What "history" does Framber have in the playoffs?

[d-money]

 

Again, always looking at the bad.

 

What "history" does Framber have in the playoffs?

 

Framber didn’t pitch well last time around but he has pitched well against us. They have the pitching matchup to their advantage. The stros are gonna try and knock us out early. Sox need to pitch well and they bring those bats .

[Maxbialystock]

I presume the complaints about the home plate umpire concern a pitch or pitches by Eovaldi in the 9th that eventually led to the hit and run #3 for the Astros, after which Perez came in along with a basketful of hittable pitches. So I kind of understand the bitterness.

 

However, to me the game was over when the Astros tied it in the 8th on the dinger off Whitlock because it was no longer winnable for the Sox, who had not scored since Bogey's 2 run dinger in the first inning and in fact did not score another run in the next 8 innings. This happened despite a double by Bogey with 1 out, after which Dugo and JDM failed to bring him home, and a triple by Arroyo with 1 out, after which Schwarber and Kike failed to bring him home.

 

Pure and simple, good pitching beat good hitting. Indeed, Pivetta initially was the one with good pitching and went 5 innings while giving up just 1 run (in the 1st) and hanging onto that 2-1 lead.

 

Old Red would like to take over the narrative and claim that Cora blew it by not sticking with whichever reliever got the most recent out, but I would argue that Cora actually made some excellent moves leading up to Whitlock, by far our best reliever all season long, to pitch the 7th and 8th and Eovaldi to close in the 9th. Whitlock, however, threw a first pitch fastball right down the pike to Altuve, who drove it out for the tying run in the 8th. Then he got 3 outs.

 

Then, it's true, maybe Eovaldi got screwed by one or two calls in the 9th, but to me the real problem was the Astros leadoff batter, Correa, to whom Eovaldi, no doubt encouraged by Vazquez, served up four straight fastballs, the final one driven to the RF wall for an easy double. Time and time again this season and in other seasons, Eovaldi's 97mph+ fastball has been shown to be very hittable when the hitter knows one is coming. So the double by Correa was almost inevitable.

 

Notably, immediately after the double, Eovaldi and his idiot catcher wise up, leading to a succession of breaking balls that got 2 K's before that game-winning single of a splitter a little up in the zone. By then Eovaldi had thrown 24 pitches, the game was as good as over, and it made sense to send out Perez.

 

The griping notwithstanding, Eovaldi was still a good choice, even with a tie game rather than the planned for 2-1 lead, to pitch the 9th. He started last Saturday and will likely start this Friday, so last night's venture will not put undue stress on his arm.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Maxbialystock

[Maxbialystock]

About the ALCS. Yes, I agree with most who say last night was a huge win for the Astros because it's now 2-2 in games, the last two will be in Houston, and the Astros' bullpen dominated the Sox lineup which had scored 12, 9, and 4 runs in the previous 3 games and 6, 6, and 14 against the excellent Rays pitching staff in the final three games of the ALDS.

 

So, yes, I also think the Astros now have the upper hand. That doesn't mean it's over even though I think the Astros have a very good chance now of returning to Houston leading 3-2 in games.

[Maxbialystock]

Disagree on today's "need to win". I think today is close to a must win for the Astros. Sale is the weak link in the chain now and in Game 6, the Stros face the best pitcher either team has on their roster. The Astros need to play today like it's game 7. There is a good chance Playoff Nate tosses 6IP and 1ER in game 6 and I don't think the Astros have the horses to match that

 

I pretty much agree with that, but would add I think the Astros will win today with Sale starting for the Sox.

[YastrzemskI]

https://twitter.com/EvanMarinofsky/status/1450668904188108806

 

That's a strike all day.

 

It sure is and that missed call changed the entire game.. unfortunately. Worst umpiring I’ve seen thus far in this post season. Nate was cheated out of a good outing.

[bkzwhitestrican]

[Maxbialystock]

It sure is and that missed call changed the entire game.. unfortunately. Worst umpiring I’ve seen thus far in this post season. Nate was cheated out of a good outing.

 

Nate also gave up the leadoff double to Correa by throwing him four straight fastballs to lead off the 9th inning. That was just plain stupid and not the umpire's fault. After the double, he switched to breaking balls and got two K's before the fateful single.

 

Once Whitlock gave up that dinger to Altuve--also on a fastball down the middle--in the 8th inning, the Sox chances of winning the game plummeted because the Astros bullpen completely dominated the Sox lineup for 8 inning and could have kept doing it. During those 8 innings Bogey doubled with one out and Dugo and JDM couldn't bring him home. Arroyo tripled with one out, and Schwarber and Kike couldn't bring him home. The Sox were 0 for freaking 9 with RISP last night.

 

The Astros won last night fair and square, and the Sox hitters stunk to high heaven. Pivetta and the bullpen almost pulled off a miracle, but Whitlock--not the umpire--gave up that dinger in the 8th which sealed the Sox fate.

[moonslav59]

 

Framber didn’t pitch well last time around but he has pitched well against us. They have the pitching matchup to their advantage. The stros are gonna try and knock us out early. Sox need to pitch well and they bring those bats .

 

They used a lot of their pen, yesterday.

 

I'm not so sure they have the edge.

 

Try being positive. You might like it.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Wrong. Every word.

 

Even the words he doesn't post, I'm sure are wrong.

[d-money]

About the ALCS. Yes, I agree with most who say last night was a huge win for the Astros because it's now 2-2 in games, the last two will be in Houston, and the Astros' bullpen dominated the Sox lineup which had scored 12, 9, and 4 runs in the previous 3 games and 6, 6, and 14 against the excellent Rays pitching staff in the final three games of the ALDS.

 

So, yes, I also think the Astros now have the upper hand. That doesn't mean it's over even though I think the Astros have a very good chance now of returning to Houston leading 3-2 in games.

 

Gotta come out early today and get that momentum back quickly. It can change in a minute if they come out strong.

[d-money]

 

They used a lot of their pen, yesterday.

 

I'm not so sure they have the edge.

 

Try being positive. You might like it.

 

Dude they had a chance last night but if you don’t think momentum is on their side then idk what to tell you. I still like our chances only if we can withstand the early stuff today. They need to come out and grab that momentum back quickly. If the Stros come out with a lead early it looks bleak.

[moonslav59]

Nate also gave up the leadoff double to Correa by throwing him four straight fastballs to lead off the 9th inning. That was just plain stupid and not the umpire's fault. After the double, he switched to breaking balls and got two K's before the fateful single.

 

 

Thanks, Vaz.

 

(BTW, we got the 3rd strike and an end to the inning. The ump did make a grave mistake.)

[moonslav59]

 

Dude they had a chance last night but if you don’t think momentum is on their side then idk what to tell you. I still like our chances only if we can withstand the early stuff today. They need to come out and grab that momentum back quickly. If the Stros come out with a lead early it looks bleak.

 

You kept saying we were going to lose before every win we've had, so I'm not sure anyone is an expert on momentum.

[d-money]

 

You kept saying we were going to lose before every win we've had, so I'm not sure anyone is an expert on momentum.

 

Momentum man. Sox need to come out and grab it back early. I mean i said it from the beginning in this series the sox are not gonna be winning the close games. They need to outslug the stros.

[RedSoxNC84]

Today will be a win.

[Bellhorn04]

Dude they had a chance last night but if you don’t think momentum is on their side then idk what to tell you. I still like our chances only if we can withstand the early stuff today. They need to come out and grab that momentum back quickly. If the Stros come out with a lead early it looks bleak.

 

Momentum doesn't exist. If it did, we would have won easily last night.

[RedSoxNC84]

I think after last nights showing and the ridiculous 9th inning collapse the bats will come out today

[d-money]

Momentum doesn't exist. If it did, we would have won easily last night.

 

Really? When the sox couldn’t capitalize early with runners in scoring position i knew they where f***ed. The offense didn’t do much last night. I kept saying they where gonna get burned. This BP wasn’t going to win a 2-1 game. They need the bats to win this series period.

[YastrzemskI]

Nate also gave up the leadoff double to Correa by throwing him four straight fastballs to lead off the 9th inning. That was just plain stupid and not the umpire's fault. After the double, he switched to breaking balls and got two K's before the fateful single.

 

Once Whitlock gave up that dinger to Altuve--also on a fastball down the middle--in the 8th inning, the Sox chances of winning the game plummeted because the Astros bullpen completely dominated the Sox lineup for 8 inning and could have kept doing it. During those 8 innings Bogey doubled with one out and Dugo and JDM couldn't bring him home. Arroyo tripled with one out, and Schwarber and Kike couldn't bring him home. The Sox were 0 for freaking 9 with RISP last night.

 

The Astros won last night fair and square, and the Sox hitters stunk to high heaven. Pivetta and the bullpen almost pulled off a miracle, but Whitlock--not the umpire--gave up that dinger in the 8th which sealed the Sox fate.

 

That pitch gets called appropriately and the top of the inning comes to a close with a 2-2 score. It’s just that simple.

[Bellhorn04]

Really? When the sox couldn’t capitalize early with runners in scoring position i knew they where f***ed.

 

So what happened to their f***ing momentum from the previous 2 games?

 

There's no such thing, that's what I'm saying.

[Tedballgame]

Laz Diaz missed 23 calls last night, including the most important pitch of the night to Castro. No one should be allowed to be so incompetent in their profession and still have a job. Angel Hernandez has to be thrilled today. He can say, "If you think I am bad, look at Laz Diaz".

[moonslav59]

 

Momentum man. Sox need to come out and grab it back early. I mean i said it from the beginning in this series the sox are not gonna be winning the close games. They need to outslug the stros.

 

We had no momentum before, until we got it.

 

Now, that it is lost, you think we can't get it back?

 

Momentum can change on a dime, and it has all year. This year more than ever. (IMO)

[YastrzemskI]

Laz Diaz missed 23 calls last night, including the most important pitch of the night to Castro. No one should be allowed to be so incompetent in their profession and still have a job. Angel Hernandez has to be thrilled today. He can say, "If you think I am bad, look at Laz Diaz".

 

He was all over the place last night. Umps like that cheapen post season baseball and I’m tired of it. It’s sad that we’re talking about this right now but unfortunately it played a significant part in the outcome of the game. Let’s see what the umps have in store for game five.. at this point it’s turning into a crapshoot.

[NewSox]

What's left to be said that hasn't been said already?

LOTS of missed opportunities, Diaz did the Stros a solid, and Perez .... ugh Perez.

We need Big Game Sale to show up today and we need him to bring the Bats of Hell with him.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the day game - I've always heard a little sunshine is the best disinfectant, so we'll see!

Go Sox!!

[YastrzemskI]

What's left to be said that hasn't been said already?

LOTS of missed opportunities, Diaz did the Stros a solid, and Perez .... ugh Perez.

We need Big Game Sale to show up today and we need him to bring the Bats of Hell with him.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the day game - I've always heard a little sunshine is the best disinfectant, so we'll see!

Go Sox!!

 

Maybe NATURAL light will help the Ump’s vision. MAYBE. Maybe not.

[Maxbialystock]

Momentum doesn't exist. If it did, we would have won easily last night.

 

Strangely enough, I agree with you. Baseball is nothing if not unpredictable.

 

I used momentum to describe how I felt last night after Altuve got that dinger off Whitlock to tie the game in the 8th.

 

Maybe the right word was foreboding, which is what I think everyone felt throughout that game when the lineup just couldn't push another run across the plate after Bogey's dinger in the 1st.

 

But I think it's also true that Cora threw his best pitchers out there last night to get win #3: Pivetta, Taylor, Ottavino, Whitlock, and Eovaldi. If you buy the bad ump theory, you can even make the case that those five coulda/woulda/shoulda held the Astros to 2 runs in 9 innings.

 

But I have to ask, who then pitches the 10th, 11th, 12th, etc?

[Maxbialystock]

That pitch gets called appropriately and the top of the inning comes to a close with a 2-2 score. It’s just that simple.

 

The umps weren't why the Sox stopped scoring after the first inning, why Whitlock gave up the tying dinger in the 8th, or why Eovaldi gave up the leadoff double in the top of the 9th.

 

The Astros won last night because they had great pitching and just enough hitting. The Sox lost because their lineup stunk after Bogey's dinger in the 1st.

 

We already know the Sox were scoreless in the 9th inning--as they were in the 2d thru 8th innings--so I find it hard to believe that, with all their good arms used up, the Sox were going to pull this game out in extra innings.

[moonslav59]

 

The Astros won last night because they had great pitching and just enough hitting. The Sox lost because their lineup stunk after Bogey's dinger in the 1st.

 

.

 

Their line-up stunk worse than ours after the first inning and up to the 8th.

 

We missed some golden opportunities that the Astros didn't have until the 9th.

 

The bad call was one reason we lost, and because it came at crunch time, it seems more important.

 

I guess I'll never understand why you and other see a team that was getting XBhs and walking a lot, but not scoring for 6, 7 then 8 innings automatically means they are doomed to never score again the rest of the game.

 

Did you see all our comeback wins, this year? Some in the playoffs?