9/02 SOX @ Rays 7:10PM

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

... Edited September 2, 2021 by SPLENDIDSPLINTER

[mvp 78]

NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

I fixed it. Sorry, I had a brain fart.

[mvp 78]

This forum really needs a delete thread button.

[moonslav59]

This forum really needs a delete thread button.

 

Hey, you found a position we all agree on!

 

I thought that could never be done!

[Bellhorn04]

No help from Tiggers today.

[mvp 78]

Hey, you found a position we all agree on!

 

I thought that could never be done!

 

Positions we all agree on are boring. What's the point in having that conversation?

[moonslav59]

Positions we all agree on are boring. What's the point in having that conversation?

 

We don't have to keep discussing it, but it's something to find an issue beyond debate.

[mvp 78]

We don't have to keep discussing it, but it's something to find an issue beyond debate.

 

1. Pedro Martinez is the greatest Red Sox pitcher of all time.

2. David Ortiz is the most clutch Red Sox hitter of all time.

3. Dwight Evans should be in the Hall of Fame.

4. Koji's 2013 was the only time a Sox fan could be calm when a closer came in.

5. Ownership doesn't know s*** about PR, but they brought us 4 WS titles.

6. Tito was the greatest Sox manager of all time.

7. It wasn't Buckner's fault.

8. Angel Hernandez shouldn't ever ump another game.

9. Wakefield should never have been in the position to give up the Boone HR.

10. Shoot Grady Little into the sun.

[moonslav59]

1. Pedro Martinez is the greatest Red Sox pitcher of all time.

2. David Ortiz is the most clutch Red Sox hitter of all time.

3. Dwight Evans should be in the Hall of Fame.

4. Koji's 2013 was the only time a Sox fan could be calm when a closer came in.

5. Ownership doesn't know s*** about PR, but they brought us 4 WS titles.

6. Tito was the greatest Sox manager of all time.

7. It wasn't Buckner's fault.

8. Angel Hernandez shouldn't ever ump another game.

9. Wakefield should never have been in the position to give up the Boone HR.

10. Shoot Grady Little into the sun.

 

1. I agree, but somone 150years old might say Cy Young or even the Babe.

2. Agreed, but it's not a skill.

3. Agreed, but nonSox fans would disagree.

4. I was calm with Barnes for a couple months.

5. I disagree.

6. Nope.

7. Nope.

8. You may have found #2.

9. Nope.

10. Nope.

[mvp 78]

1. I agree, but somone 150years old might say Cy Young or even the Babe.

2. Agreed, but it's not a skill.

3. Agreed, but nonSox fans would disagree.

4. I was calm with Barnes for a couple months.

5. I disagree.

6. Nope.

7. Nope.

8. You may have found #2.

9. Nope.

10. Nope.

 

Are your nopes disagreeing with me?

[Maxbialystock]

Are your nopes disagreeing with me?

 

Yep.

[Nick]

Rico Petrocelli was my favorite Red Sox. June 1967, when I entered America not knowing the language.

[mvp 78]

1. I agree, but somone 150years old might say Cy Young or even the Babe.

2. Agreed, but it's not a skill.

3. Agreed, but nonSox fans would disagree.

4. I was calm with Barnes for a couple months.

5. I disagree.

6. Nope.

7. Nope.

8. You may have found #2.

9. Nope.

10. Nope.

 

I'm sorry, but if you believe 1986 was Buckner's fault, you don't know much about baseball.

If you think it was fine that Pedro was left in there too long, you weren't watching that game.

If you are a Grady Little supporter, I will never find common ground with you.

[moonslav59]

I'm sorry, but if you believe 1986 was Buckner's fault, you don't know much about baseball.

If you think it was fine that Pedro was left in there too long, you weren't watching that game.

If you are a Grady Little supporter, I will never find common ground with you.

 

I misread the Buckner line. I agree with you, but some would debate this.

 

Yes, nopes mean it's debatable.

 

[moonslav59]

I'm sorry, but if you believe 1986 was Buckner's fault, you don't know much about baseball.

If you think it was fine that Pedro was left in there too long, you weren't watching that game.

If you are a Grady Little supporter, I will never find common ground with you.

 

I was glad Pedro stayed in, at the time, so I'd be hypocritical to throw stones at Little on that.

 

I'm not saying I was right. Hindsight shows I was not, but Pedro at 75% was better than anyone else, and we were beat by a bloop hit, so there is that to create a discussion.

[Bellhorn04]

I was glad Pedro stayed in, at the time, so I'd be hypocritical to throw stones at Little on that.

 

I'm not saying I was right. Hindsight shows I was not, but Pedro at 75% was better than anyone else, and we were beat by a bloop hit, so there is that to create a discussion.

 

We were beat by 4 straight hits, including a rocket by the previous batter Matsui.

[mvp 78]

I misread the Buckner line. I agree with you, but some would debate this.

 

Yes, nopes mean it's debatable.

 

 

Nobody on here would debate it.

[mvp 78]

We were beat by 4 straight hits, including a rocket by the previous batter Matsui.

 

I was watching the game at my favorite bar and a random guy I had chatted up just started yelling "why are they bringing Pedro back out?" It was obvious to many people that Pedro shouldn't have gone out again.

[mvp 78]

I was glad Pedro stayed in, at the time, so I'd be hypocritical to throw stones at Little on that.

 

I'm not saying I was right. Hindsight shows I was not, but Pedro at 75% was better than anyone else, and we were beat by a bloop hit, so there is that to create a discussion.

 

Pedro thought he was done. You could see that in real time when they were showing the dugout.

[Bellhorn04]

Pedro thought he was done. You could see that in real time when they were showing the dugout.

 

Pedro did the skyward look coming off after the 7th.

[moonslav59]

Pedro thought he was done. You could see that in real time when they were showing the dugout.

 

I saw that afterwards, and again, I'm not saying I was right, but I do think that point is up for debate.

 

Pedro at 75% was better than anyone else the Sox had available.

 

Maybe you can say he was at 64.7% at that moment, but that is something that can be further discussed.

 

Had you said Ted Williams is the best Sox hitter of all time, I'd have said that was not up for debate, but you chose some real iffy claims, instead,

[mvp 78]

I saw that afterwards, and again, I'm not saying I was right, but I do think that point is up for debate.

 

Pedro at 75% was better than anyone else the Sox had available.

 

Maybe you can say he was at 64.7% at that moment, but that is something that can be further discussed.

 

Had you said Ted Williams is the best Sox hitter of all time, I'd have said that was not up for debate, but you chose some real iffy claims, instead,

 

This debate is like saying "maybe the windmills Quixote was fighting were actually real life dragons." No, there's no debate. Sorry you big phony. You're probably being a phony right now trying to stir me yup because everyone knows that Pedro shouldn't have gone back out there.

[moonslav59]

This debate is like saying "maybe the windmills Quixote was fighting were actually real life dragons." No, there's no debate. Sorry you big phony. You're probably being a phony right now trying to stir me yup because everyone knows that Pedro shouldn't have gone back out there.

 

I've talked about this issue many times before. I was no little fan, but I can't think leaving Pedro in a game can be an undebatable offense.

 

Again, I'm not claiming I was right, but at the time of the choice, it was not a 100% clear what was the right thing to do, and if that bloop hit was a pop up, this wouldn't even be talked about.

 

It wouldn't be on your list.

[Bellhorn04]

I've talked about this issue many times before. I was no little fan, but I can't think leaving Pedro in a game can be an undebatable offense.

 

Again, I'm not claiming I was right, but at the time of the choice, it was not a 100% clear what was the right thing to do, and if that bloop hit was a pop up, this wouldn't even be talked about.

 

It wouldn't be on your list.

 

Posada's bloop hit came with only one out, and Giambi, who had homered twice in the game, on deck. If Posada had made an out, would Grady have left Pedro in to face Giambi again? I doubt it, but who knows with Grady.

[mvp 78]

I've talked about this issue many times before. I was no little fan, but I can't think leaving Pedro in a game can be an undebatable offense.

 

Again, I'm not claiming I was right, but at the time of the choice, it was not a 100% clear what was the right thing to do, and if that bloop hit was a pop up, this wouldn't even be talked about.

 

It wouldn't be on your list.

 

This is a phony argument you are trying to make.

[moonslav59]

This is a phony argument you are trying to make.

 

How many times do I have to say I'm not saying I was right?

 

My position is that, at the time, I wanted Pedro to stay in. It wasn't an absurd position.

 

The choice failed, and even though we don't know if the other choices would have worked, I will not be a hypocrite and criticize Little for doing something I agreed with, at the time.

 

In hindsight the choice was wrong.

 

Looking at all the evidence I know now, it looks calling it the wrong choice has a lot of merit, but I still think a 75% Pedro is a great pitcher.

 

I can't say Little was wrong on that. Sorry.

[moonslav59]

Posada's bloop hit came with only one out, and Giambi, who had homered twice in the game, on deck. If Posada had made an out, would Grady have left Pedro in to face Giambi again? I doubt it, but who knows with Grady.

 

I'd guess, no, but with Little, who knows.

 

I'm just saying I'd be a hypocrite for bashing Little in hindsight for doing something I agreed upon at the time.

 

I'm not saying people are wrong for bashing Little, and of course hindsight is always 20-20.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd guess, no, but with Little, who knows.

 

I'm just saying I'd be a hypocrite for bashing Little in hindsight for doing something I agreed upon at the time.

 

I'm not saying people are wrong for bashing Little, and of course hindsight is always 20-20.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but Theo told Little before the game to get Pedro out after 105 pitches, and Pedro threw 123 pitches.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Nobody is wrong about Pedro. He was obviously the Red Sox' best pitcher and had had a great Game 7 for seven innings in '03. And before entering the dugout he was obviously done when he tapped his heart and pointed to the heavens (like he always did after punching out his timecard). The most underrated part of what followed is how nigh impossible it is for any pitcher who shuts it all down -- physically and mentally -- to ramp it all back up again, especially in the biggest pressure inning and game of the season. Yes, Posada hit a freaking blooper, but that was only after three other Yankees smoked Martinez: Jeter, Williams and especially Matsui -- after Grady's mound visit, when Pedro's bobblehead eyes told us not to look. That double by Godzilla, when Little didn't escort his ace back to the bench after handing the ball to Alan Embree, is the exact moment that got the manager fired.