A Realistic View at 2022: Part I

[moonslav59]

Sea Dogs season is over, not surprising these guys are being given a little more run. Casas will be up next season at some point. Depending on what they do with C depth, Hernandez could be #3 which would give him the leg up on reaching BOS first.

 

I kinda like Plawecki, but with Vaz a free agent after 2022, maybe they keep 4 catchers on the 40 (Vaz, Plawecki, Wong & R Hernandez.) Maybe they identify the one they want the least and deal him. Hard to know.

 

With Dalbec playing so well, maybe Casas gets a full year at AAA, and his clock is delayed.

 

Winckowski seems like he'll get a shot, but who knows what kind of starter depth Bloom will add, this winter.

 

Seabold is ahead, and maybe Bello gets a shot before JW.

[mvp 78]

Winckowski is ahead of Bello IMO. Bello didn't light the world on fire in AA this year. He has a ways to go.

 

Wong OPS by month:

May 572

June 666

July 727

Aug 1037

Sept 841

 

Maybe he was a guy who started off slow because of missing 2020. If he can OPS > 800 in AAA, they'll keep him around. I wouldn't be shocked if they brought in a glove first backup who was a placeholder for Wong or Hernandez.

[moonslav59]

Winckowski is ahead of Bello IMO. Bello didn't light the world on fire in AA this year. He has a ways to go.

 

Wong OPS by month:

May 572

June 666

July 727

Aug 1037

Sept 841

 

Maybe he was a guy who started off slow because of missing 2020. If he can OPS > 800 in AAA, they'll keep him around. I wouldn't be shocked if they brought in a glove first backup who was a placeholder for Wong or Hernandez.

 

Why the need to replace Plawecki, who looks good on D, gets good results from the staff and can actually hit okay for a catcher?

 

He's pretty cheap, too.

[mvp 78]

Why the need to replace Plawecki, who looks good on D, gets good results from the staff and can actually hit okay for a catcher?

 

He's pretty cheap, too.

 

He's worse on a per game basis by fWAR than Vaz.

[moonslav59]

He's worse on a per game basis by fWAR than Vaz.

 

He's 1/6 the cost of Vaz, has more years of team control and gets better results from the staff- pitcher by pitcher- than Vaz.

 

So, you want us to pick up another back-up catcher with a better fWAR/gm than Vaz?

[Bellhorn04]

He's 1/6 the cost of Vaz, has more years of team control and gets better results from the staff- pitcher by pitcher- than Vaz.

 

Please, no more CERA, it's maddening.

 

Vazquez plays more than Plawecki, it seems pretty obvious Bloom and Cora value him more.

[moonslav59]

Please, no more CERA, it's maddening.

 

Vazquez plays more than Plawecki, it seems pretty obvious Bloom and Cora value him more.

 

I have never said Plawecki should play more than Vaz or even more than he plays now.

 

I'm just pointing out the added value Plawecki brings as a back-up.

 

CERA type value is not maddening. It makes perfect sense that some pitchers do better with one catcher over another. They even say it. Some have years and years of data to show their preferences. Some do about the same with anybody behind the plate.

 

If you don't like CERA, how about COPS Against? LOL.

 

Of the 9 pitchers with 50+ PAs with Vaz and Plawecki, 6 have a better OPS Against with Plawecki:

 

Plawecki- Vaz Pitcher

.651- .732 Eovaldi

.660-.777 Pivetta

.679-.607 Houck

.674-.847 Richards

1.163-.781 Perez

.640-.679 Taylor

.765-.599 Ottavino

.478-.745 DHern

.596-.632 Valdez

[notin]

Why the need to replace Plawecki, who looks good on D, gets good results from the staff and can actually hit okay for a catcher?

 

He's pretty cheap, too.

 

It will depend heavily on his estimated arbitration asking price. If the Sox think Plawecki will price himself out of a backup catcher role, they might non-tender him…

[moonslav59]

It will depend heavily on his estimated arbitration asking price. If the Sox think Plawecki will price himself out of a backup catcher role, they might non-tender him…

 

Indeed, but we did pay Leon $1.3, $1.95 and $2.48M his last 3 years.

 

Plawecki made $1.6M, this year.

[mvp 78]

He's 1/6 the cost of Vaz, has more years of team control and gets better results from the staff- pitcher by pitcher- than Vaz.

 

So, you want us to pick up another back-up catcher with a better fWAR/gm than Vaz?

 

I'm sure they can find someone better behind the plate than Plawecki.

[moonslav59]

I'm sure they can find someone better behind the plate than Plawecki.

 

I'd love that, especially if he is cheaper and a better defender and pitcher handler.

 

I'd also like to have a better starting catcher.

[mvp 78]

Indeed, but we did pay Leon $1.3, $1.95 and $2.48M his last 3 years.

 

Plawecki made $1.6M, this year.

 

For a guy WORSE than Vaz in framing and 75th in pop time.

 

Manny Pina at $1.65M is 13th in framing and 10th in pop time. That's better value for the amount they are spending.

[mvp 78]

Indeed, but we did pay Leon $1.3, $1.95 and $2.48M his last 3 years.

 

Plawecki made $1.6M, this year.

 

And when Leon started playing near Plawecki-errr Replacement Level, they got rid of him. $1.6M isn't the steal you think it is.

[Bellhorn04]

I'd love that, especially if he is cheaper and a better defender and pitcher handler.

 

I'd also like to have a better starting catcher.

 

Yes, is upgrading every starter and backup too much to ask?

[mvp 78]

Yes, is upgrading every starter and backup too much to ask?

 

Sox only had 5 All Stars this season. Why not 10?

[notin]

Sox only had 5 All Stars this season. Why not 10?

 

Or 25?

 

I can see leaving Plawecki off, but the rest have no excuse!!

[mvp 78]

Or 25?

 

I can see leaving Plawecki off, but the rest have no excuse!!

 

DFA Plawecki

[moonslav59]

And when Leon started playing near Plawecki-errr Replacement Level, they got rid of him. $1.6M isn't the steal you think it is.

 

When did I say $1.6M was a "steal?"

 

I said it would be great to replace him with someone better.

'

Catchers are not easy to find, especially good ones, but sure, let's upgrade.

[mvp 78]

Kevin Plawecki to SEA for Sam Travis

 

Per BTV, they have the same value and are equally good.

[mvp 78]

When did I say $1.6M was a "steal?"

 

I said it would be great to replace him with someone better.

'

Catchers are not easy to find, especially good ones, but sure, let's upgrade.

 

Manny Pina is a FA, sign him. He's better.

[moonslav59]

For a guy WORSE than Vaz in framing and 75th in pop time.

 

Manny Pina at $1.65M is 13th in framing and 10th in pop time. That's better value for the amount they are spending.

 

Framing may not matter anymore with robo umps.

 

Pop time matters very little when your staff doesn't care to hold runners or pitch from the stretch.

 

[moonslav59]

Manny Pina is a FA, sign him. He's better.

 

There may be a bidding war based on how valuable you say he is.

[notin]

There may be a bidding war based on how valuable you say he is.

 

No bidding war. At worst, a bidding spat…

[notin]

Pop time matters very little when your staff doesn't care to hold runners or pitch from the stretch.

 

 

Or… that makes it matter more…

[moonslav59]

Or… that makes it matter more…

 

The best pop time in ML history won't matter much, if the runners are already on 2nd base when the throw is half way to 2nd.

[Nick]

We can trade pretty much the entire team (targeting high paid players) with exception of Sale.

 

C Wong and Hernadez

1B Casas

2B Arroyo

SS Downs

3B Dalbec

IF Iglesias

LF Duran

CF Kike

RF Renfroe

OF Verdugo

DH Schwarber

SP Sale

SP Eovaldi

SP Pivetta

SP Whitlock

SP Seabold

SP Bello

Cl Houck

RP Barnes

RP Taylor

RP Darwinzon

RP Winckowski

RP Davis

RP Sawamura

RP Robles

 

That's slashing away $103M of payroll before adding Schwarber. You can trade away $17M attached to Eovaldi and now it's $120M less say $15M for Schwarber.

 

We can be the Rays North with better attendance.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

The best pop time in ML history won't matter much, if the runners are already on 2nd base when the throw is half way to 2nd.

 

Could still pick some guys off though LOL

[Bellhorn04]

We can trade pretty much the entire team (targeting high paid players) with exception of Sale.

 

C Wong and Hernadez

1B Casas

2B Arroyo

SS Downs

3B Dalbec

IF Iglesias

LF Duran

CF Kike

RF Renfroe

OF Verdugo

DH Schwarber

SP Sale

SP Eovaldi

SP Pivetta

SP Whitlock

SP Seabold

SP Bello

Cl Houck

RP Barnes

RP Taylor

RP Darwinzon

RP Winckowski

RP Davis

RP Sawamura

RP Robles

 

That's slashing away $103M of payroll before adding Schwarber. You can trade away $17M attached to Eovaldi and now it's $120M less say $15M for Schwarber.

 

We can be the Rays North with better attendance.

 

Not sure what's so bad about our 4 rings that the Rays don't have.

[mvp 78]

Framing may not matter anymore with robo umps.

 

Pop time matters very little when your staff doesn't care to hold runners or pitch from the stretch.

 

 

The only stat that matters is CERA.

[mvp 78]

There may be a bidding war based on how valuable you say he is.

 

And Plawecki would pass through waivers.