8/8 at Jays, Dimanche

[moonslav59]

The excuses people give him here are pathetic. All he needed was one out to get out of the inning and he instead gave up the lead. 臘*♂️ That’s a momentum shifter. They would have won two games in a row.

 

The Bleacher Report gave the Cubs an A for the trade...

 

Chicago Cubs get: RHP Alexander Vizcaino and OF Kevin Alcantara

The catch with the Yankees not picking up Rizzo's salary is that it required them to pay a hefty price in terms of prospects. Per MLB.com, Vizcaino and Alcantara ranked as New York's Nos. 9 and 12 prospects, respectively.

 

Though his bout with arm soreness is a red flag, the former has a fastball that touches triple digits, while the latter has an intriguing mix of power and speed. Both have more development ahead of them, but good on the Cubs for turning a depreciated asset into two high-ceiling prospects.

 

Grade: A

 

Since the Yanks had a much better farm than us, at the time, it might have taken our 6th and 9th prospects to get him: Jimenez & Seabold -maybe Bello & Seabold.

Edited August 8, 2021 by moonslav59

[Nick]

Barnes is settling into his old self.

[dgalehouse]

Barnes is settling into his old self.

 

There is a very short list of guys who can successfully close games for any length of time.

[dgalehouse]

The Bleacher Report gave the Cubs an A for the trade...

 

Chicago Cubs get: RHP Alexander Vizcaino and OF Kevin Alcantara

The catch with the Yankees not picking up Rizzo's salary is that it required them to pay a hefty price in terms of prospects. Per MLB.com, Vizcaino and Alcantara ranked as New York's Nos. 9 and 12 prospects, respectively.

 

Though his bout with arm soreness is a red flag, the former has a fastball that touches triple digits, while the latter has an intriguing mix of power and speed. Both have more development ahead of them, but good on the Cubs for turning a depreciated asset into two high-ceiling prospects.

 

Grade: A

 

Since the Yanks had a much better farm than us, at the time, it might have taken our 6th and 9th prospects to get him: Jimenez & Seabold -maybe Bello & Seabold.

 

Great. So while fans of the gaining teams can enjoy the excitement of a pennant race and possible post season ; Cubs fans should stop crying and take solace in the fact that Bleacher Report gave them an A on the deals.

[moonslav59]

Great. So while fans of the gaining teams can enjoy the excitement of a pennant race and possible post season ; Cubs fans should stop crying and take solace in the fact that Bleacher Report gave them an A on the deals.

 

I'm thrilled the Yanks decided to weaken their farm for a pipe dream. (The Gallo trade was better for them.)

 

If they get lucky enough to make the playoffs, they'll be bounced pronto.

[Maxbialystock]

That’s it. Cora should’ve also pulled Richards when it was 7-2. Instead, he leaves him in to give up the two run homer to make it 7 to 4. Trying to get Richards a win cost the Sox the game.

 

One more time. Richards gave up 3 earned runs in 5 innings, and the bullpen gave up 5 earned runs in 4 innings. Taylor, Sawamura, Ottavino, and Barnes--all normally, usually pretty reliable relievers--were all off tonight. For example, Taylor, a lefty in to pitch first to a lefty, walked him, and it was downhill after that.

 

So in comes Sawamura to bail him out and does a pretty good job. Then he loses it badly in the 7th, so in comes Ottavino, who does OK in the 7th--those 2 runs are charged to Sawamura.

 

In the 8th Ottavino gives up a single but gets 2 outs. Nevertheless, Cora brings in Barnes to get a 4 out save with a 2 run lead, and he gives up a walk before the 3 run game-winning dinger, after which he strikes out Guerrero for the final out and after the Jays go up 9-8 and win the game after the Sox can't do anything in the 9th.

[Maxbialystock]

Barnes is settling into his old self.

 

Barnes succeeds when he mixes his knuckle curve and his fastball with a decent amount of command. He got killed tonight because he kept throwing fastballs to Springer. He also walked the Jays #9 hitter, McGuire.

[moonslav59]

The walk to the 9 hitter with Springer on deck was unforgivable.

 

[Maxbialystock]

Holding a 4 run lead going into the bottom of the 7th we had to go to the well once too often. Our BP was used up and couldn't deliver. Hitting was solid today and produced 8 runs.

 

Agree. We have a good bullpen, but not today. Just like we have a good lineup, but sure did much good in it in yesterday's double header.

[moonslav59]

We've had a few wins like this loss over the season.

 

We will have more to come.

 

Sale is going to jolt this team back into the thick of it.

 

(I only wish he'd been called up 1 start earlier, at least.)

[Maxbialystock]

The walk to the 9 hitter with Springer on deck was unforgivable.

 

 

Exactly. Barnes must have command of both his fastball and his knuckle curve, and tonight he didn't have it with the curve and used his fastball too much vs. Springer. He needed just one stinking out to get out of the 8th and couldn't deliver until after the 3 run dinger when he finally mixed up his pitches and struck Guerrero out.

[Maxbialystock]

We've had a few wins like this loss over the season.

 

We will have more to come.

 

Sale is going to jolt this team back into the thick of it.

 

(I only wish he'd been called up 1 start earlier, at least.)

 

You and I may be the only semi-optimists still standing. I loved the hitting tonight. I loved both starts yesterday. I think the bullpen is still good. A rotation of Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Houck, and ERod could work, especially if the hitting comes back as it did today and if the bullpen recovers from one bad game.

 

Someone needs to tell Barnes that, if he relies on his fastball as he did yesterday and again tonight, he cannot be a reliable closer. He must use and command both the knuckle curve and the fast ball. Even that changeup is better than a steady diet of fastballs.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I wouldn't worry about Barnes. The Red Sox traded for Hansel Robles and he can always take over the closer role.

 

Also, it is great how Bloom fleeced Brian Cashman in the Ottavino deal. Not only are the Red Sox paying Ottavino 8 mil this year, a relief pitcher who has a post-All Star break ERA of 8.59, but the Red Sox also acquired top pitching prospect Frank German in the deal. Incredible work by Bloom!

[moonslav59]

Exactly. Barnes must have command of both his fastball and his knuckle curve, and tonight he didn't have it with the curve and used his fastball too much vs. Springer. He needed just one stinking out to get out of the 8th and couldn't deliver until after the 3 run dinger when he finally mixed up his pitches and struck Guerrero out.

 

Just throw it down the middle with 3 balls.

[a700hitter]

ERod is the key down the stretch. If he doesn’t straighten himself out and start going deep into games with quality starts, the staff and bullpen will not be sustainable.

[a700hitter]

One more time. Richards gave up 3 earned runs in 5 innings, and the bullpen gave up 5 earned runs in 4 innings. Taylor, Sawamura, Ottavino, and Barnes--all normally, usually pretty reliable relievers--were all off tonight. For example, Taylor, a lefty in to pitch first to a lefty, walked him, and it was downhill after that.

 

So in comes Sawamura to bail him out and does a pretty good job. Then he loses it badly in the 7th, so in comes Ottavino, who does OK in the 7th--those 2 runs are charged to Sawamura.

 

In the 8th Ottavino gives up a single but gets 2 outs. Nevertheless, Cora brings in Barnes to get a 4 out save with a 2 run lead, and he gives up a walk before the 3 run game-winning dinger, after which he strikes out Guerrero for the final out and after the Jays go up 9-8 and win the game after the Sox can't do anything in the 9th.

Repetition is always very convincing and much appreciated.

[moonslav59]

ERod is the key down the stretch. If he doesn’t straighten himself out and start going deep into games with quality starts, the staff and bullpen will not be sustainable.

 

Agreed, and he's really had only 2 bad starts out of his last 8, so it's not really a long shot hope.

 

IP ER last 8

6.0 3

6.0 2

6.0 0

5.0 4

5.2 0

1.0 1

3.1 6

5.0 0

[a700hitter]

Agreed, and he's really had only 2 bad starts out of his last 8, so it's not really a long shot hope.

 

IP ER last 8

6.0 3

6.0 2

6.0 0

5.0 4

5.2 0

1.0 1

3.1 6

5.0 0

I think we would have to put the migraine game in the “bad start” category, so that would be 3 bad starts in his last 6 outings, and he hasn’t gone 6 in any of them. It isn’t impossible for him to turn it around, but his recent trend hasn’t been very good.

[moonslav59]

I think we would have to put the migraine game in the “bad start” category, so that would be 3 bad starts in his last 6 outings, and he hasn’t gone 6 in any of them. It isn’t impossible for him to turn it around, but his recent trend hasn’t been very good.

 

It's not surprising to end up short of 6 IP in bad starts.

 

He did go 6 in 3 of his last 8 starts and 5.2 to 6.0 in 4 of 8. That's better than just about any other Sox starter in the last 8 games (Eovaldi?).

 

My point was that he is showing more hope than just about any other Sox starter, except maybe Eovaldi.

[jung]

You and I may be the only semi-optimists still standing. I loved the hitting tonight. I loved both starts yesterday. I think the bullpen is still good. A rotation of Sale, Eovaldi, Pivetta, Houck, and ERod could work, especially if the hitting comes back as it did today and if the bullpen recovers from one bad game.

 

Someone needs to tell Barnes that, if he relies on his fastball as he did yesterday and again tonight, he cannot be a reliable closer. He must use and command both the knuckle curve and the fast ball. Even that changeup is better than a steady diet of fastballs.

 

Somebody needs to tell a whole bunch of somebodies on that pitching staff a whole bunch of somethings, Like;

- Nate why are you throwing junk to the guys the the bottom of the Jays batting order? The guys at the top could not hit your FB/split finger combination. So what made you think the guys at the bottom could hit it? Suddenly you are throwing little curveballs and various and sundry other sucky pitches to the dregs at the bottom of the order. WHAT WAS THAT!

 

It was the beginning of the end, that's what it was.

[TylerD]

Repetition is always very convincing and much appreciated.

 

LOL!

 

I mean, at the end of the day Richards shouldn't be a pitcher at all..... When Sale is back I hope to see Richards go to the pen. Man oh man is he awful. We are considering yesterday's start not terrible for him lmao. He couldn't make it past 5 as usual and gave up 4 runs. In what world is that considered good????? But for him, sadly it is.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

LOL!

 

I mean, at the end of the day Richards shouldn't be a pitcher at all..... When Sale is back I hope to see Richards go to the pen. Man oh man is he awful. We are considering yesterday's start not terrible for him lmao. He couldn't make it past 5 as usual and gave up 4 runs. In what world is that considered good????? But for him, sadly it is.

 

That's acceptable for this rotation. We have to settle for quadrangle starts: 4ish innings of 4-run ball... and it's even better if the last tally is an inherited runner.

[moonslav59]

Somebody needs to tell a whole bunch of somebodies on that pitching staff a whole bunch of somethings, Like;

- Nate why are you throwing junk to the guys the the bottom of the Jays batting order? The guys at the top could not hit your FB/split finger combination. So what made you think the guys at the bottom could hit it? Suddenly you are throwing little curveballs and various and sundry other sucky pitches to the dregs at the bottom of the order. WHAT WAS THAT!

 

It was the beginning of the end, that's what it was.

 

Who is calling for the wrong pitches?

[mvp 78]

Who is calling for the wrong pitches?

 

Can't blame the pitchers when you have an axe to grind against the catcher!

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Who is calling for the wrong pitches?

 

When your overworked star closer is spiking his bender into the dirt, there isn't much choice what to call for -- whether you're Johnny Bench or Jonny Gomes...

[jung]

Who is calling for the wrong pitches?

 

Vaz is...but Nate should have the sense to shake him off and the GD pitching coach should have been out there after the first bottom feeder got a hit off that crap. Instead he never came out. Nate kept throwing squirrel s*** to the bottom of the order and bing bang bong, bases loaded, no outs and the top of the order coming up.

 

Too late then. Nate's head was already spinning. He went back to the heat but it hardly mattered. Kept throwing the same pitch to the same spot to the top of the order and got killed. I actually don't think Bush ever came out that inning.

Edited August 9, 2021 by jung

[moonslav59]

vaz is...

 

b-i-n-g-o !

[Bellhorn04]

b-i-n-g-o !

 

Plawecki did a great job calling pitches yesterday!

[jung]

b-i-n-g-o !

 

Can't put it all on Vaz. its called a battery for a reason and I have not seen resistance to shaking Vaz of this year.

 

the pitching coach is called the pitching coach for a reason as well. Where was he?

[dgalehouse]

No matter what pitch is called or thrown, you still have to execute. Obviously, that doesn't always happen. Fast balls may lose a bit of velocity and get too much plate. Breaking balls can be off target or hang . It happens.