8/3 @ Tigers

[mvp 78]

Here I thought I was being patient lol. Dropping out of first in the division was kind of my breaking point...... Well, I shall give it a while longer then. After all, we do have Tampa coming up again (since sweeping them we are 1-5 against them) We lose that series..... We are in a world of hurt.

 

How often do teams go wire to wire?

 

I think we need to hope they can tread water and pick up steam once Schwarber is ready next week. If the losing streak continues, it may be a big issue though.

[mvp 78]

It's a baseball forum. It's supposed to be about an exchange of ideas and opinions. True , some folks get a little too smug and all knowing about theirs, but that's okay. Have a nice day.

 

Well actually, let me tell you why I won't have a nice day...

[TylerD]

Well actually, let me tell you why I won't have a nice day...

 

Is it because you have hemorrhoids? Been there! Ruins any good day in a heart beat.

[a700hitter]

The end of 2011 was a nightmare, but there was a shitload of bickering during 2012 between PG, Fred, SCM, you, UN? and a whole bunch of posters. That takes the cake IMO.

 

Though my favorite day on here will always be posters freaking out over Theo's trip to go get AGon and Theo getting on the plane without a contract. The on again off again contract rumors were hilarious to follow because it was a roller coaster on here. I was stuck at the mall that day shopping for baby stuff and just remember how entertaining the board was.

This place is not nearly as entertaining anymore.

[a700hitter]

The end of 2011 was a nightmare, but there was a shitload of bickering during 2012 between PG, Fred, SCM, you, UN? and a whole bunch of posters. That takes the cake IMO.

 

Though my favorite day on here will always be posters freaking out over Theo's trip to go get AGon and Theo getting on the plane without a contract. The on again off again contract rumors were hilarious to follow because it was a roller coaster on here. I was stuck at the mall that day shopping for baby stuff and just remember how entertaining the board was.

I still think that 2011 is a better comparable for what happened on the field. In 2011, the collapse started on September 1st. This year it might happen earlier.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

No.

 

This game thread will be available at the end of September. Then we'll see if the pessimists were right or if the optimists were right.

[TylerD]

Also, some on here seem to think it's only a red sox thing to criticize the team when they suck..... You guys should go have a look at the Dodgers board before they got it going lmao.... they are MUCH worse than this board.... At least we are realistic. The pitching is complete s***, and that won't change until we make some moves. The rotation as it currently sits, is complete dog s*** outside of Nate.....That isn't being a downer, that is being a person of fact. Honestly, it's amazing that we are in a playoffspot with the pitching the way it is. Look at the teams that are currently in a playoff spot and where they sit with pitching

Dodgers 1

Giants 2

Padres 4

Rays 6

White Sox 7

Astros 9

Oakland 10

 

Again.... It's astonishing that a team like Boston who has less than average pitching is even in a playoff spot at all.... So for some of us fans to assume we won't climb out of this train wreck of a second half season.... it isn't that hard to believe..... Not many teams make the playoffs (even a wildcard) with below average pitching no matter how good the offense is.

[Hugh2]

The team has either been horrible all year and overachieved.......or they've been horrible for a short amount of time.

 

If the latter is true, you're freaking out and NOT being realistic, if the former is true you're making the argument for why it was appropriate to hold onto resources and forgo going "all in" on a team that was not that good to begin with.

 

Being realistic is understanding the balance of that situation. The Sox are either not very good and overachievers or they're really good and just struggling. You have to pick one and complain about it, we can't have our cake and eat it too.

[moonslav59]

Also, some on here seem to think it's only a red sox thing to criticize the team when they suck..... You guys should go have a look at the Dodgers board before they got it going lmao.... they are MUCH worse than this board.... At least we are realistic. The pitching is complete s***, and that won't change until we make some moves. The rotation as it currently sits, is complete dog s*** outside of Nate.....That isn't being a downer, that is being a person of fact. Honestly, it's amazing that we are in a playoffspot with the pitching the way it is. Look at the teams that are currently in a playoff spot and where they sit with pitching

Dodgers 1

Giants 2

Padres 4

Rays 6

White Sox 7

Astros 9

Oakland 10

 

Again.... It's astonishing that a team like Boston who has less than average pitching is even in a playoff spot at all.... So for some of us fans to assume we won't climb out of this train wreck of a second half season.... it isn't that hard to believe..... Not many teams make the playoffs (even a wildcard) with below average pitching no matter how good the offense is.

 

1. The staff we will have very soon is far from the same one that is currently not ranked as highly in some areas as other contenders.

 

2. What every team has done up to now is not what they will do going forward. Some will likely do better, some worse and some about the same.

[vegasbob]

I thought all along that the preseason assessments were correct. The 2021 roster was not a good team, with a few exceptions, ready to compete for a serious WC/Playoff run. In fact over the first 100+- games, that roster overachieved and did very well, among the top 2 or 3 results in all MLB. Expectations and the desire for another potential WS run , given Sale's pending return and trade deadline additions , got us hungrier to the point of.........

overlooking that on a whole season basis Chavis was not a contributor ; Dalbec is not maturing ; Duran is a typical mid season rookie ; Marwin Gonzalez is a end of bench piece ; Arroyo stays injured; Santana should keep his bags packed ; Richards is not capable of more than a few innings; Houck may not be a starter at all; Pivetta and Perez are #4/5 bookends that need upgrading ; Vazquez , fwiw, has been worn out playing in 90% of games; Verdugo is a middle of the pack hack.

 

If Devers, Bogaerts, JDM and Renfroe couldn't carry this team in run production and if Eovaldi and Erod couldn't win every 5th day where the heck did you think the team was going ? The current team wide run production slump and recent starts show the overall weakness. In fact, it is a retooling transition , yes, bridge year where we still have a good chance of exceeding the original expectations .

 

Maybe it is a .500 team with a couple of 8/9 game win streaks, now a short losing stretch for balance and reversion to mean effect. But win tonight and tomorrow vs the Tigers and see how we feel about it.

[mvp 78]

This game thread will be available at the end of September. Then we'll see if the pessimists were right or if the optimists were right.

 

Except that I am a REALIST. I am neither pessimist nor optimist.

[TylerD]

The team has either been horrible all year and overachieved.......or they've been horrible for a short amount of time.

 

If the latter is true, you're freaking out and NOT being realistic, if the former is true you're making the argument for why it was appropriate to hold onto resources and forgo going "all in" on a team that was not that good to begin with.

 

Being realistic is understanding the balance of that situation. The Sox are either not very good and overachievers or they're really good and just struggling. You have to pick one and complain about it, we can't have our cake and eat it too.

 

Anyone who thinks we haven't over achieved is either on meth or just flat out mental. We have most certainly over achieved.... Doesn't mean it doesn't suck that we are coming back down to Earth and coughing up what was a nice season regardless if anyone expected it or not.

[TylerD]

1. The staff we will have very soon is far from the same one that is currently not ranked as highly in some areas as other contenders.

 

2. What every team has done up to now is not what they will do going forward. Some will likely do better, some worse and some about the same.

 

Well lets pray we do better...... a lot better lol

[TylerD]

I thought all along that the preseason assessments were correct. The 2021 roster was not a good team, with a few exceptions, ready to compete for a serious WC/Playoff run. In fact over the first 100+- games, that roster overachieved and did very well, among the top 2 or 3 results in all MLB. Expectations and the desire for another potential WS run , given Sale's pending return and trade deadline additions , got us hungrier to the point of.........

overlooking that on a whole season basis Chavis was not a contributor ; Dalbec is not maturing ; Duran is a typical mid season rookie ; Marwin Gonzalez is a end of bench piece ; Arroyo stays injured; Santana should keep his bags packed ; Richards is not capable of more than a few innings; Houck may not be a starter at all; Pivetta and Perez are #4/5 bookends that need upgrading ; Vazquez , fwiw, has been worn out playing in 90% of games; Verdugo is a middle of the pack hack.

 

If Devers, Bogaerts, JDM and Renfroe couldn't carry this team in run production and if Eovaldi and Erod couldn't win every 5th day where the heck did you think the team was going ? The current team wide run production slump and recent starts show the overall weakness. In fact, it is a retooling transition , yes, bridge year where we still have a good chance of exceeding the original expectations .

 

Maybe it is a .500 team with a couple of 8/9 game win streaks, now a short losing stretch for balance and reversion to mean effect. But win tonight and tomorrow vs the Tigers and see how we feel about it.

Last year I believe we had a top three offense.... didn't seem to matter, we were awful. If you don't have good pitching you just won't be that good period no matter how good of an offense you have. We still have a top 5 offense (although the second half we haven't exactly been lighting up the score board) but it just won't be enough unless this rotation can win. Right now: Richards, Pivetta, Perez can barely go 5 and they seem to give up at least 4 runs or more a game.... You just simply can't win with that kind of pitching. Porcello did this and everyone (except me) wanted him off the team.... Now we basically have 4 Porcellos including E-Rod. I hope to hell this pitching rotation gets it together and fast, because if we don't this is just going to be the norm right to the end of the season.

[jung]

Last year I believe we had a top three offense.... didn't seem to matter, we were awful. If you don't have good pitching you just won't be that good period no matter how good of an offense you have. We still have a top 5 offense (although the second half we haven't exactly been lighting up the score board) but it just won't be enough unless this rotation can win. Right now: Richards, Pivetta, Perez can barely go 5 and they seem to give up at least 4 runs or more a game.... You just simply can't win with that kind of pitching. Porcello did this and everyone (except me) wanted him off the team.... Now we basically have 4 Porcellos including E-Rod. I hope to hell this pitching rotation gets it together and fast, because if we don't this is just going to be the norm right to the end of the season.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that good pitching can control good hitting. It can even control great hitting. Once they get a book on you that is relevant to that year, you have to be able to adjust as a hitter or you are dead.

 

Our plate discipline has been horrid all year long and the league has caught up to that fact. If anything our plate discipline has gotten worse as individual players try to win games with one swing of the bat from the 1st inning to the last. JD has yet to meet a low outside slider he didn't like. Rafi swings at virtually everything and it matters not that Remy ohhh and ahhhhh at his ability to hit crap pitches hard, he misses more of them than he hits. X man is now injured and it shows. However notice last night the most frustration he showed as a hitter that prides himself in plate discipline is when he swung at strike 3 OUTSIDE. Clearly he was asking himself what the f*** he thought he was doing swinging at that. Renfroe has decent plate discipline. Hernandez swings early in counts and thus has been swinging at good pitches to swing at. Merwin is a hack. Both of the rookies, Duran and Dalbac are simply too young and neither is the younger Rafi. Vaz is exhausted. Santana is a joke and the other bench guy is no better. Plewicki is a decent back up catcher. Verdugo is Verdugo. He is fine as long as he does not start to try to win games with one swing of his bat....if he does....here comes BennieII.

 

That is EVERY HITTER on the team other than Schwerber who is also a free swinger! The value to Schwerber in my view is that he will get one of the rookies or hack Gonzalez out of the batting order.

 

The pitchers have done better than expected early in the year with the starters toeing the line of the new standard.......5 f***ING INNINGS...... but are now struggling in some cases to even do that.

 

So IMO the hitters have to pick it up. Hernandez has to be in the batting order. Hopefully X will get better physically.

 

Cora needs to tell them to stop trying to win the game with one swing of the bat. They are a team and they need to play like a team, not try to heap all of this pressure on their own individual shoulders because they have tried that and ITS NOT WORKING! They are hitting worse not better. They are being teased to death by opposing pitchers. Be more patient and more selective and take what the pitchers are giving them.

 

As for expectations from our pitching Hauck may be the solution some year...not likely to be this one. Sale is the epitome of a guy that goes 100% all of the time, will come back feeling the weight of the world on his shoulders though in truth he will still at that point be on a rehab year. Not a sure bet of any sort.

 

But in THIS MLB, they should still make the post season. I don't see enough team here to go deep into the playoffs.

Edited August 4, 2021 by jung

[moonslav59]

I love when people say, “The manager just need to tell ______ not to swing at bad pitches.”

 

Like it’s that easy.

[Bellhorn04]

Is it really a coincidence that the last time the Sox had a notion of contending (summer of '19) -- and passed on significant upgrades -- the team immediately lost eight straight after the deadline? To paraphrase Merloni in the hour after that deadline: "The GM is telling the clubhouse -- in Mookie's last year -- he doesn't think they're good enough! Done."

 

Merloni even knew in July 2019 they were going to trade Mookie?

[a700hitter]

Except that I am a REALIST. I am neither pessimist nor optimist.

Are malcontents optimistic or pessimistic?

[iortiz]

Vázquez base running is simply ridiculous.

[TylerD]

Poop.