A Realistic View at 2021: Part III

[notin]

I'm not sure he said exactly that. He said that the deals at the deadline were cost prohibitive and he did everything he could to stay under the luxury tax and not negatively impact the future of the ballclub.

 

Exactly.

 

Casas is very likely no Bagwell, but should he have been dealt for the 2021 version of Larry Andersen?

[Bellhorn04]

I'm not sure he said exactly that. He said that the deals at the deadline were cost prohibitive and he did everything he could to stay under the luxury tax and not negatively impact the future of the ballclub.

 

The players put that through their executive interpretation devices and got what Merloni said.

[Bellhorn04]

Check out the strength of schedule since, and factor in two lucky wins off Barnes.

 

My point is that the “morale” thing is a myth. Some players might care, but there are very few broad brushes that can be applied to everyone.

 

Not to mention, the losing started a couple days earlier…

 

They were 7-3 in their last 10, against the Jays and Yankees, at the closing bell on July 30.

[illinoisredsox]

It would be nice if Plawecki could throw out a base stealer at least once in a while.

 

The league average is 23%. Both Sox catchers are below that; Vaz at 20% and Plawecki at 10%.

 

Most bases are stolen on the pitcher, not the catcher. The Sox have a lot of guys who take a long time to deliver the ball. Heck, Judge was practically sliding into second last night off of Ottavino by the time Vaz even caught the ball, hence no throw.

[notin]

Duran should be starting almost every day. Otherwise, he should be in AAA.

 

Agreed. Especially now…

[mvp 78]

@IanMBrowne

The @RedSox have released Matt Andriese after DFAing him two days ago.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure he said exactly that. He said that the deals at the deadline were cost prohibitive and he did everything he could to stay under the luxury tax and not negatively impact the future of the ballclub.

 

"Cost" can mean the other GMs wanted better prospects than what Bloom was willing to part with- not just "financial cost."

 

Even if it was just money, it's still not Bloom's fault, the budget line was drawn. Sure, you can blame him for wasting money on a few players, butall in all, I think at the trade deadline time, most were more or less happy with the team he had built on a limited budget and with very little farm input..

[mvp 78]

Exactly.

 

Casas is very likely no Bagwell, but should he have been dealt for the 2021 version of Larry Andersen?

 

No.

[mvp 78]

"Cost" can mean the other GMs wanted better prospects than what Bloom was willing to part with- not just "financial cost."

 

Even if it was just money, it's still not Bloom's fault, the budget line was drawn. Sure, you can blame him for wasting money on a few players, butall in all, I think at the trade deadline time, most were more or less happy with the team he had built on a limited budget and with very little farm input..

 

I blame ownership for the financial restraints. I blame Bloom for filling that restraint with Richards and Ottavino.

[moonslav59]

I blame ownership for the financial restraints. I blame Bloom for filling that restraint with Richards and Ottavino.

 

That's fine.

 

I happen to think Ottavino has been worth it, and Richards is starting to earn back some of his negative value.

 

Marwin was a waste.

[mvp 78]

Check out the strength of schedule since, and factor in two lucky wins off Barnes.

 

My point is that the “morale” thing is a myth. Some players might care, but there are very few broad brushes that can be applied to everyone.

 

Not to mention, the losing started a couple days earlier…

 

I'm not sure those Barnes meltdowns were due to "luck." Please don't misgender these brushes. Yes, the morale thing is most likely a myth.

[mvp 78]

That's fine.

 

I happen to think Ottavino has been worth it, and Richards is starting to earn back some of his negative value.

 

Marwin was a waste.

 

Marwin's contract was just a little bit smaller than Richards and Ottavino. They had to sign guys like Marwin and Santana because of spending elsewhere.

[Bellhorn04]

I blame ownership for the financial restraints.

 

Yes, it's a bit disappointing that they moved heaven and earth last year to reset, all so they could make Bloom expend every effort to stay under the threshold again the following year.

[notin]

Yes, it's a bit disappointing that they moved heaven and earth last year to reset, all so they could make every effort to stay under the threshold again the following year.

 

It was somewhat understanding in the off-season, since they had no idea of or when Sale would return. I can see holding back with the ace still in question.

 

At the deadline, it made zero sense. Unless Henry just plans to stay under for a long time…

[moonslav59]

Marwin's contract was just a little bit smaller than Richards and Ottavino. They had to sign guys like Marwin and Santana because of spending elsewhere.

 

Marwin's deal still hurt us at the deadline, if you believe money was the main issue we did not make trades.

 

At the time we signed Richards, the other main option near that price was Kluber, and many ehre wished we'd have gotten him instead.

 

The Ottavino deal has worked for us.

[moonslav59]

We'd have needed Scherzer, Rizzo and Kimbrel to still be in first place.

 

That would have taken a near total wipre out of our top prospects.

[moonslav59]

Yes, it's a bit disappointing that they moved heaven and earth last year to reset, all so they could make Bloom expend every effort to stay under the threshold again the following year.

 

I don't think anyone expected a 1 year turn-around to be a contender.

 

We were god awful, last year, and it takes time to build up a strong and deep roster. I think there was at least a 2 year plan before the spending would kick in.

 

Bloom worked on deepening the 40 man roster, this year, signing short term deals to allow some young kids a chance to win some slots, but getting off to a great start kinda upset the plans and created fan expectations for the deadline that just was too farm removed for the longer term plan to bring to fruition.

[mvp 78]

It was somewhat understanding in the off-season, since they had no idea of or when Sale would return. I can see holding back with the ace still in question.

 

At the deadline, it made zero sense. Unless Henry just plans to stay under for a long time…

 

They better go over next year. Or Bloom better at least have some more interesting offseason moves.

[mvp 78]

I don't think anyone expected a 1 year turn-around to be a contender.

 

We were god awful, last year, and it takes time to build up a strong and deep roster. I think there was at least a 2 year plan before the spending would kick in.

 

Bloom worked on deepening the 40 man roster, this year, signing short term deals to allow some young kids a chance to win some slots, but getting off to a great start kinda upset the plans and created fan expectations for the deadline that just was too farm removed for the longer term plan to bring to fruition.

 

They weren't as bad last year as their record (starting rotation aside). They were lucky to have such a short season.

[moonslav59]

They weren't as bad last year as their record (starting rotation aside). They were lucky to have such a short season.

 

Their pitching was awful. We used like 30 pitchers for 60 games. The names of half of 'em sucked.

 

Did you expect us to be good this year once you found out about the budget demands?

 

Yes, Boom could have done better with his signings and trades, but on paper, we should not have been very good, this year.

 

I'm fine with people thinking, "hey, we're in first place now and may not be nexxt year or in 2023, either, so let's forget the budget plan and longer term goals and go for it now, or at least make a better effort than we ended up making."

 

I for one, think Bloom did make an effort, but teams wanted too much or we didn't even have the right pieces for some of the better, available players.

 

I think Bloom thought we could still compete with returning players and Schwarber being ready by August 5th to 10th. It's not like that idea was totally idiotic.

 

I still think we make the playoffs.

 

I still think 2022 and or 2023 are the years we see some serious acquisitions. I'm hopeful he does better than Richards, Perez and Marwin. I liked the Kike & Renfroe deals. Ottavino looks close to a push, now. Whitlock was a steal. Last year's Pivetta and Arroyo pick-ups were grand larceny. Plawecki was a good role piece. Cordero, Andriese, Santana and others look like total duds, but Cordero will get another look at some point, IMO.

 

[mvp 78]

And what if this offseason is underwhelming too? Bloom getting a pass again? Just blame ownership?

[oldtimer]

I don't think anyone expected a 1 year turn-around to be a contender.

 

We were god awful, last year, and it takes time to build up a strong and deep roster. I think there was at least a 2 year plan before the spending would kick in.

 

Bloom worked on deepening the 40 man roster, this year, signing short term deals to allow some young kids a chance to win some slots, but getting off to a great start kinda upset the plans and created fan expectations for the deadline that just was too farm removed for the longer term plan to bring to fruition.

 

I am not a quick to find excuses for managements handling of this team in 2021. The fact is, we were good when compared to the teams we needed to beat. At the beginning of the season a lot had to go right for us to be in that position and it did. It was clear and oft comment on in this site that the team had weaknesses. It looked like first base and some pitching issues existed. Really, Cora stuck with Gonzales, Santana, Cordero, Chavis and to some extent Dalbec when it was clear that they were not contributing. It was like pulling teeth to get any action at all. Management got us an injured Schwaber and two weaker relief pitchers and then Shaw. Cora played Arroyo at first in desperation and look how that turned out. The other competing teams got better, meanwhile several of our players have gone into extended slump like periods.

 

Some have nagging injuries but more so they seem deflated and lethargic. A lot of what has happed is on Bloom and Cora. We might have gotten Rizzo and one solid relief pitcher and the message to the team would have been "Were in it to win it".

[moonslav59]

They better go over next year. Or Bloom better at least have some more interesting offseason moves.

 

If Bloom is not allowed to go over, he should still have some more significant moves that this year. No Pedey. No Beni share.

 

Replacing most of the free agents looks like addition by subtraction before you even sign anyone.

 

Only ERod looks tough to replace, but it's not like replacing the 2021 ERod will cost $30M a year.

 

The tax budget is a bit more complicated than just thinking we lose these salaries, so we can sign an equal amount, but if we go over the line, we should have nearly double the money to spend as last winter.

 

We lose

 

13.8M Pedey

10.0M Richards (option)

8.9M Ottavino

8.3M ERod

6.0M Perez

3.0 Marwin

2.8M Beni

+ Andriese, Santana, Robles & Shaw

[moonslav59]

I am not a quick to find excuses for managements handling of this team in 2021. The fact is, we were good when compared to the teams we needed to beat. At the beginning of the season a lot had to go right for us to be in that position and it did. It was clear and oft comment on in this site that the team had weaknesses. It looked like first base and some pitching issues existed. Really, Cora stuck with Gonzales, Santana, Cordero, Chavis and to some extent Dalbec when it was clear that they were not contributing. It was like pulling teeth to get any action at all. Management got us an injured Schwaber and two weaker relief pitchers and then Shaw. Cora played Arroyo at first in desperation and look how that turned out. The other competing teams got better, meanwhile several of our players have gone into extended slump like periods.

 

Some have nagging injuries but more so they seem deflated and lethargic. A lot of what has happed is on Bloom and Cora. We might have gotten Rizzo and one solid relief pitcher and the message to the team would have been "Were in it to win it".

 

Do you know what they wanted for Rizzo and a solid RP'er?

 

I'd like to know, before I judge Bloom too harshly.

 

I also think they expected Schwarber to be ready to play (and play 1B vs RHPs) in 5-10 days, but the groin injury set that back.

[notin]

We'd have needed Scherzer, Rizzo and Kimbrel to still be in first place.

 

That would have taken a near total wipre out of our top prospects.

 

Scherzer alone might have cost us Casas plus. But what probably hurt was not having any MLB ready pitching prospects…

Edited August 19, 2021 by notin

[notin]

Do you know what they wanted for Rizzo and a solid RP'er?

 

I'd like to know, before I judge Bloom too harshly.

 

I also think they expected Schwarber to be ready to play (and play 1B vs RHPs) in 5-10 days, but the groin injury set that back.

 

I made a post a while back comparing Fangraphs Future Values to Sox prospects of equal FV and one iteration of an equivalent package was Casas and Houck. Now as the FV values are not really all that definitive, I can’t for certain say that was the only way to get Rizzo, but what became obvious was that deal would have put a major dent in the Sox farm for two months of a first baseman whose OPS was under .800 at the time…

[notin]

And what if this offseason is underwhelming too? Bloom getting a pass again? Just blame ownership?

 

I think that depends why it’s underwhelming.

 

If for some reason he isn’t allowed to spend, do we blame Bloom?

 

If he is allowed to spend, and sinks all his cash into Jake Arrieta and Ryan Zimmerman, yeah, we can blame Bloom…

[moonslav59]

It's really unfair to just say, Bloom should have gotten Rizzo and _____ (Kimbrel? Berrios?) without knowing specifically what they would have taken.

 

Sure, if they took Marwin & Santana for Rizzo, of course- roast away, but that's impossible.

 

I doubt they'd have even taken Winckowski and Bonaci, which I'm not sure I'd have wanted us to give, although I doubt I'd have raised a stink over it.

 

Under the radar guys like Schoop and Cron were not dealt, apparently because they will be offered QO deals, which kind of surprises me.

 

I wanna hear names before I start throwing around blame.

 

[Bellhorn04]

It's really unfair to just say, Bloom should have gotten Rizzo and _____ (Kimbrel? Berrios?) without knowing specifically what they would have taken.

 

Sure, if they took Marwin & Santana for Rizzo, of course- roast away, but that's impossible.

 

I doubt they'd have even taken Winckowski and Bonaci, which I'm not sure I'd have wanted us to give, although I doubt I'd have raised a stink over it.

 

Under the radar guys like Schoop and Cron were not dealt, apparently because they will be offered QO deals, which kind of surprises me.

 

I wanna hear names before I start throwing around blame.

 

 

Schoop was signed to an extension.

 

As far as blame goes, if Bloom was given a strict mandate not to exceed the tax threshold, then you can't really blame him. But in that case maybe you can blame ownership.

[moonslav59]

Schoop was signed to an extension.

 

As far as blame goes, if Bloom was given a strict mandate not to exceed the tax threshold, then you can't really blame him. But in that case maybe you can blame ownership.

 

Blame seems to be a big American virtue or something.

 

I can see blaming Henry, but I never will. 4 rings makes him a God in my book.