Andriese, Rios and Santana

[moonslav59]

I thought the Andriese signing was a good bet, but it's hard to get excited about a career 4.65 Pitcher, nor this....

 

1.333 WHIP

 

8.3 K/9 is not bad

2.6 BB/9 is not so good

9.4 H/9 is meh

 

Previous 3 seasons (2018-2020):

4.91 ERA

1.324 WHIP (3.1 BB/9)

 

 

 

[notin]

I thought the Andriese signing was a good bet, but it's hard to get excited about a career 4.65 Pitcher, nor this....

 

1.333 WHIP

 

8.3 K/9 is not bad

2.6 BB/9 is not so good

9.4 H/9 is meh

 

Previous 3 seasons (2018-2020):

4.91 ERA

1.324 WHIP (3.1 BB/9)

 

 

 

 

 

He’s average to below average, yes. He’s not a guy you sign to turn your team around. But there are a lot of worse pitchers in the league and replacing him isn’t going to necessarily mean you improve.

 

He might get released at some point this year, but if it means more innings from Yacksel Rios or Colten Brewer or maybe even Phillips Valdez, it might not necessarily be a good thing…

[moonslav59]

He’s average to below average, yes. He’s not a guy you sign to turn your team around. But there are a lot of worse pitchers in the league and replacing him isn’t going to necessarily mean you improve.

 

He might get released at some point this year, but if it means more innings from Yacksel Rios or Colten Brewer or maybe even Phillips Valdez, it might not necessarily be a good thing…

 

I think it's all about health and the return of Sale, Houck and to a lesser extent, Brasier.

 

These are the likely ones to be replaced...

 

Andriese

Rios

Maybe Workman for Brasier? (We'll know more about Workman when Brasier is ready.)

[Bellhorn04]

To me the bottom line on Andriese is that 2.1 million of guaranteed money makes him rather disposable. No torches and pitchforks for Bloom on that kind of risk.

[moonslav59]

To me the bottom line on Andriese is that 2.1 million of guaranteed money makes him rather disposable. No torches and pitchforks for Bloom on that kind of risk.

 

Some seem to think that contract is the reason he hasn't been cut, so far. (not me)

[Bellhorn04]

Some seem to think that contract is the reason he hasn't been cut, so far. (not me)

 

He pitched great in April. Maybe a little rest and a tweak gets him pitching well again. Our management knows what they're doing.

[moonslav59]

He pitched great in April. Maybe a little rest and a tweak gets him pitching well again. Our management knows what they're doing.

 

They do.

 

They keep all their options open.

 

He can certainly return to April form, again.

 

Santana could return to 2018 form.

 

Rios? Does he have a good time period?

[Bellhorn04]

They do.

 

They keep all their options open.

 

He can certainly return to April form, again.

 

Santana could return to 2018 form.

 

Rios? Does he have a good time period?

 

Rios is a puzzler, but they must have seen something they liked, or that could be improved.

[moonslav59]

Rios is a puzzler, but they must have seen something they liked, or that could be improved.

 

He's just a placeholder for Sale or Houck.

[notin]

I think it's all about health and the return of Sale, Houck and to a lesser extent, Brasier.

 

These are the likely ones to be replaced...

 

Andriese

Rios

Maybe Workman for Brasier? (We'll know more about Workman when Brasier is ready.)

 

 

Injuries are likely to be a bigger factor than cuts and DFAs…

[moonslav59]

Injuries are likely to be a bigger factor than cuts and DFAs…

 

Yes, there is a good chance none of these guys are cut or demoted.

 

Sale, Houck and Brasier, assuming they reach the ability to be called up may replace players placed on the IL and not Rios, Andriese or Workman (or Santana).

[mvp 78]

Rios is a puzzler, but they must have seen something they liked, or that could be improved.

 

Another AAAA arm in case of injury. I don’t think they saw some hidden feature we don’t know about.

[Maxbialystock]

He pitched great in April. Maybe a little rest and a tweak gets him pitching well again. Our management knows what they're doing.

 

3 good points: great in April, rest might help (he's pitched a lot of innings), trust Cora/Bloom.

 

That said, Andriese currently is sent to the mound with an invisible white flag of surrender sewn onto his uniform because the game is over whether the Sox are ahead or behind. ​His WAR of -.7 is lower than those of guys who are no longer on the big club--Weber, Brewer, Brice.

[Bellhorn04]

Another AAAA arm in case of injury. I don’t think they saw some hidden feature we don’t know about.

 

Yeah, the only surprising thing is that they've used him in some late/close situations recently.

[Bellhorn04]

3 good points: great in April, rest might help (he's pitched a lot of innings), trust Cora/Bloom.

 

That said, Andriese currently is sent to the mound with an invisible white flag of surrender sewn onto his uniform because the game is over whether the Sox are ahead or behind. ​His WAR of -.7 is lower than those of guys who are no longer on the big club--Weber, Brewer, Brice.

 

Yes, and if he doesn't bounce back soon, his days on the team are numbered.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, the only surprising thing is that they've used him in some late/close situations recently.

 

That extra inning game was more or less by force.

 

When was the other times he pitched in the 8th or 9th in a close game?

(I'm not doubting he has, but I don't recall his other games.)

 

[Bellhorn04]

That extra inning game was more or less by force.

 

When was the other times he pitched in the 8th or 9th in a close game?

(I'm not doubting he has, but I don't recall his other games.)

 

 

You're correct. I was also including the KC game we won 7-6, where he came in for Pivetta. It was close, but not late and close.

[moonslav59]

Andriese had just one bad game in April, in terms of runs allowed.

 

He did allow an IR to score in his first game, then his second game was bad, but he then went 7 straight games dong very well.

 

8.2 IP

5 H

0 ER

2 BB

7 K

 

In May, he pitched 9 games. He allowed a run or more to score or an IR'er to score all but one game.

 

12 IP

24 H

12 ER

5 BB

12 K

 

In June, he pitched 5 games- allowing a run or more in 4 of 5. (more of a long relief role)

9.1 IP

12H

7 ER

2 BB

12 K

The only game he inherited runners (3) he allowed all to score.

 

July- 2 games

2.1 IP

6 H

2 ER

0 BB

2 K

 

All season, he's only inherited 6 runners-all have scored. Couple that with his 5.70 ERA, and you can see why many of us are fed up.

[iortiz]

The thing is, struggling players need to play to get out of a funk, and who knows what day will be the day they begin to turn things around.

 

Some wanted Renfroe benched or platooned after the crappy April he had. Good thing Cora stuck with hm.

 

BTW, Renfroe is...

 

.849 last 28 days.

.862 last 14 days.

 

Others mentioned for being benched or played less often:

 

Kike

.876 last 28 days

.910 last 14

.963 last 7

 

Dalbec

.873 last 28 days

 

You are missing the point. He can help this team in so many ways.

 

Seems like you are against having Duran around lol

[iortiz]

I do, too, especially regarding long term team building.

 

This is a sad post.

 

If everything lies down on Cora and Bloom know better than us, this forum is a nonsense. The debate is worthless then. They have everything figure out. They don’t.

 

I do trust in Cora and Bloom, however, it doesn’t mean I always agree in their decisions, and it doesn’t make me an anti resdsox.

 

Calling Duran ain’t hurt this team in anyway.

 

Change my mind.

[iortiz]

The thing is, struggling players need to play to get out of a funk, and who knows what day will be the day they begin to turn things around.

 

Some wanted Renfroe benched or platooned after the crappy April he had. Good thing Cora stuck with hm.

 

BTW, Renfroe is...

 

.849 last 28 days.

.862 last 14 days.

 

Others mentioned for being benched or played less often:

 

Kike

.876 last 28 days

.910 last 14

.963 last 7

 

Dalbec

.873 last 28 days

 

Renfroe hasn’t been ok last 7 days. Kind of the point.

[Kimmi]

Exactly.

 

A lot of people are extremely down on Andriese (very likely including Andriese himself). But at the end of the day, this complaint is starting to look like “the mop up guy struggles if we use him in crucial innings!!”

 

I don’t think the Sox are going to go all Jack Welch and remove the bottom 10%, but they will very likely be adding depth. Especially in the rotation, where the Sox starter depth is non-existent, and for a team with two starting pitchers (Eovaldi and Richards) who visit the Injured List more often than they visit their own mothers, this is just flat out unacceptable…

 

It's remarkable how little starting pitching depth we have needed this season. Almost none, outside of ERod at the beginning of the season.

 

I don't think anyone will be blown away by any midseason moves that Bloom makes, but I do think he will make some solid additions.

[Kimmi]

This is a sad post.

 

If everything lies down on Cora and Bloom know better than us, this forum is a nonsense. The debate is worthless then. They have everything figure out. They don’t.

 

I do trust in Cora and Bloom, however, it doesn’t mean I always agree in their decisions, and it doesn’t make me an anti resdsox.

 

Calling Duran ain’t hurt this team in anyway.

 

Change my mind.

 

Cora and Bloom know a lot more about baseball than any of us do, especially about their current roster. That doesn't mean that they won't make mistakes. That also doesn't mean that we can't debate or question their decisions. But when it comes down to it, I am going to trust their decisions a lot more than I would trust anyone's opinion on this forum. That is not meant to be a knock on anyone's knowledge or opinions, it just the way it is. We don't have half the information that they do.

[notin]

You are missing the point. He can help this team in so many ways.

 

Seems like you are against having Duran around lol

 

Seems like you are prioritizing Duran over the current (winning!) team.

 

The Sox don't need Duran right now. And there is no guarantee he can help beyond maybe being a pinch runner.

 

Now when someone gets hurt or starts to actually struggle for a prolonged period, then maybe we see Duran...

[Bellhorn04]

Duran has a .636 OPS in July, and was scratched from last night's game with lower back soreness.

[notin]

Duran has a .636 OPS in July, and was scratched from last night's game with lower back soreness.

 

I'm not real sold the Sox need any emergency bats from the farm right now, except maybe a 1B. That they don't have above A ball. So nothing they have...

[moonslav59]

You are missing the point. He can help this team in so many ways.

 

Seems like you are against having Duran around lol

 

I'd like nothing more than Duran being called, start and do well.

 

Yes, he can help in many ways, assuming he does well.

 

The thing is, I also like Kike, Arroyo and Dalbec. I think all have shown they deserve a longer look. None should be benched, totally for anyone else in our system.

 

I don't want Duran called up to ride the bench, even if he's better than Santana and Marwin combined. It would stunt his growth.

 

If I was 100% sure Duran could do better than Dalbec, I still would not call him up to replace Dalbec. It would mean weakening our defense at 2 positions by moving Kike to 1B.

 

It would end Dalbec's chance to prove he can be our FT 1Bman.

 

It would lessen Kike's value to the team.

 

No move like this is made in isolation.

 

It seems obvious Duran is better than Marwin and Santana, but it's not that simple.

[moonslav59]

Renfroe hasn’t been ok last 7 days. Kind of the point.

 

So, why is 7 days the magical cut off for determining how well a player will do going forward?

[moonslav59]

Duran has a .636 OPS in July, and was scratched from last night's game with lower back soreness.

 

Had we called him up July 1st, as many wanted, why should we have expected he'd do any better than .636?

 

It's a gamble.

 

It's easy to look back and say so-and-so hit .400 in July, so how can he have done worse, but nobody knew, for sure, so-and-so was going to hit .400 on June 30th.

[Bellhorn04]

So, why is 7 days the magical cut off for determining how well a player will do going forward?

 

If it's 7 days, Duran is a bum. And now he's a bum with a possible health issue!