Andriese, Rios and Santana

[notin]

So, why is 7 days the magical cut off for determining how well a player will do going forward?

 

Duran is 5 for 20 in July with 1 extra base hit. Not sure how he is an improvement.

 

I think some fans are desperately fabricating reasons to mess with success....

[notin]

If it's 7 days, Duran is a bum. And now he's a bum with a possible health issue!

 

See what Bloom and Cora did!! They left Duran in Worcester too long and he got hurt because of it!!!

[moonslav59]

I'm not real sold the Sox need any emergency bats from the farm right now, except maybe a 1B. That they don't have above A ball. So nothing they have...

 

Casas is above A Ball, but I do not think he is ML ready.

 

Ockimey is on his "last chance" season in the minors and is not showing he deserves a chance, despite the decent splits as a platoon.

[Bellhorn04]

Duran is 5 for 20 in July with 1 extra base hit. Not sure how he is an improvement.

 

I think some fans are desperately fabricating reasons to mess with success....

 

I don't think it's that so much as they prematurely anoint certain guys they like as can't-miss stars.

[moonslav59]

Duran is 5 for 20 in July with 1 extra base hit. Not sure how he is an improvement.

 

I think some fans are desperately fabricating reasons to mess with success....

 

I agree.

 

No 7 day, 30 day or even longer sample sizes should be the determining factor in a promotion or demotion.

 

My point was about Renfroe not Duran.

[notin]

Casas is above A Ball, but I do not think he is ML ready.

 

Ockimey is on his "last chance" season in the minors and is not showing he deserves a chance, despite the decent splits as a platoon.

 

Right. Casas is in AA Aand doing OK. But unlike Duran he is also a guy where service time matters.

 

Ockimey is just not a major leaguer. He should be proud of himself for getting further in the minors than most players go. But he isn't likely to go any further...

[notin]

I agree.

 

No 7 day, 30 day or even longer sample sizes should be the determining factor in a promotion or demotion.

 

My point was about Renfroe not Duran.

 

Oh my point was it's a bit hypocritical to gripe that Renfroe struggled over a short period but ignore than Duran did too

[moonslav59]

I don't think it's that so much as they prematurely anoint certain guys they like as can't-miss stars.

 

They see big stud prospects making instant impacts for other teams and equate Duran with players like Guerrero, Acuna and Tatis.

[moonslav59]

Right. Casas is in AA Aand doing OK. But unlike Duran he is also a guy where service time matters.

 

Ockimey is just not a major leaguer. He should be proud of himself for getting further in the minors than most players go. But he isn't likely to go any further...

 

Exactly.

 

There were some calling for Renfroe to be demoted, platooned or worse after his April.

 

That sample size is not much different from the length of Dalbec's slump or Santana's scattered sample size of failure.

 

I'm guilty of over-reacting, too. I often print the recent 7, 14 and 28 day numbers to show who is hot. I often argue, why demote Dalbec when he's hit .850 over the last __ games.

 

Baseball is a game of patience in a world of increasing impatience.

[notin]

They see big stud prospects making instant impacts for other teams and equate Duran with players like Guerrero, Acuna and Tatis.

 

Guerrero was hardly “instant impact” with his .772 OPS last year. He wasn’t bad, but he was certainly less than many expected…

[moonslav59]

Guerrero was hardly “instant impact” with his .772 OPS last year. He wasn’t bad, but he was certainly less than many expected…

 

Well, .772 is a big improvement over Marwin & Santana and even Dalbec.

[oldtimer]

Exactly.

 

There were some calling for Renfroe to be demoted, platooned or worse after his April.

 

That sample size is not much different from the length of Dalbec's slump or Santana's scattered sample size of failure.

 

I'm guilty of over-reacting, too. I often print the recent 7, 14 and 28 day numbers to show who is hot. I often argue, why demote Dalbec when he's hit .850 over the last __ games.

 

Baseball is a game of patience in a world of increasing impatience.

 

We are halfway through the season. Sounds like you would prefer to hold onto non performers while letting good prospects sit on the bench while they age. I disagree with that approach.

[Maxbialystock]

I don't think it's that so much as they prematurely anoint certain guys they like as can't-miss stars.

 

Hmmpf. Do not slander the great Duran.

[Maxbialystock]

This is a sad post.

 

If everything lies down on Cora and Bloom know better than us, this forum is a nonsense. The debate is worthless then. They have everything figure out. They don’t.

 

I do trust in Cora and Bloom, however, it doesn’t mean I always agree in their decisions, and it doesn’t make me an anti resdsox.

 

Calling Duran ain’t hurt this team in anyway.

 

Change my mind.

 

With Arroyo at 2b, Hernandez is hands down the Sox best centerfielder. He, Verdugo, and Renfroe have WAR's of 2.3, 1.6, and 1.4.

 

There is no compelling need for Duran at this time: he will do better to play every day in Worcester.

[notin]

Hmmpf. Do not slander the great Duran.

 

Exactly. He’s Jarren Duran. He had more power than Putin!! He has more speed than - I dunno - El Chapo!? That work?

 

If James Bond played baseball, he’d be Duran. Jarren Duran…

[notin]

We are halfway through the season. Sounds like you would prefer to hold onto non performers while letting good prospects sit on the bench while they age. I disagree with that approach.

 

What bench are the Sox’ good prospects sitting on?

[oldtimer]

I don't think it's that so much as they prematurely anoint certain guys they like as can't-miss stars.

,

Some of the opinions about Duran and other prospects is that it makes sense to try using a good prospect when guys on the roster have not performed well. We have Andriese, Santana, Chavis and to some extent Gonzales who haven't performed well. Dalbec also hasn't done well against right hand pitching but most recommendations were to platoon him with a left handed hitter, if we could find a better one. It is also possible we could trade to reinforce the team but we don't have a lot of leeway before we exceed the CBT. The hope is that we don't wind up losing games we might otherwise have won.

[moonslav59]

We are halfway through the season. Sounds like you would prefer to hold onto non performers while letting good prospects sit on the bench while they age. I disagree with that approach.

 

Not at all, and you know I have been advocating DFAing Santana and Andriese. I was also for demoting Dalbec a while back.

 

I do tend to think players deserve longer looks than you and others, but I am not against giving up on non-performers. Can I ask if you think Renfroe should have been benched after his horrific April? If no, how is he different from Santana or Dalbec?

 

Also, I have said over and over- when Duran is ready, I want him called up. I will never pretend to think I know when he is ready more than Bloom knows. If you feel differently, that’s your choice.

 

On calling up a prospect that needs to play everyday just to MAYBE improve the bench, and yes it is certainly a maybe, does not appeal to me or any of the 30 GMs in MLB. I think the onus is on you to explain why you know more than all 30 GMs.

 

Please don’t take that as me busting your chops. I can understand the desire to try and put the best 26 out there everyday, but this is a 162 game season, and there are so many factors involved with every choice like this one.

[moonslav59]

What bench are the Sox’ good prospects sitting on?

 

I think he meant “rather than” not “while,”

[Maxbialystock]

,

Some of the opinions about Duran and other prospects is that it makes sense to try using a good prospect when guys on the roster have not performed well. We have Andriese, Santana, Chavis and to some extent Gonzales who haven't performed well. Dalbec also hasn't done well against right hand pitching but most recommendations were to platoon him with a left handed hitter, if we could find a better one. It is also possible we could trade to reinforce the team but we don't have a lot of leeway before we exceed the CBT. The hope is that we don't wind up losing games we might otherwise have won.

 

That's old news. None of those three is competing with Duran for a slot on the big club.

 

Duran is an outfielder and the Sox outfield is looking pretty good right now, offensively and defensively. The Sox #9 hitter, Dalbec, is looking better lately, plus he plays 1b, plus he hit well in MLB last year.

 

Without Duran playing a single game of the 89 the Sox have played so far, they have compiled the best record in the AL and the 2d best in MLB.

 

Just what is Duran supposed to fix?

[notin]

 

I think he meant “rather than” not “while,”

 

Oh.

 

Well I have to disagree with him there too. I see no point in bringing up a prospect to sit on an MLB bench. Those spots on the bench are for underperformers. Top prospects should be starting when they get to MLB…

[moonslav59]

Oh.

 

Well I have to disagree with him there too. I see no point in bringing up a prospect to sit on an MLB bench. Those spots on the bench are for underperformers. Top prospects should be starting when they get to MLB…

 

I agree, too, and I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think that is what he meant.

 

I think his position is...

 

Improving the bench and lessening a GMs options are more important than keeping a prospect playing and growing in AAA.

[Larry Cook]

I would feel better about this team if we improved the bench and added two quality relievers.

[moonslav59]

I would feel better about this team if we improved the bench and added two quality relievers.

 

I think the pen will be improved when we add Sale, Houck and maybe Brasier/Bazardo/Valdez (Ort).

 

I'd still like to see us deal for a pitcher.

 

As for the bench, I doubt we trade for a catcher, so I assume you mean replacing Santana/Chavis and/or Marwin. I think it's close to zero eprcent chance we trade or DFA Marwin, so it comes down to Santana/Chavis.

 

I have no issues with trading to upgrade here. I have no issues with calling up Duran, if they think he's ML ready, and he'll get enough playing time to keep sharp and growing. Since Kike can play 2B and 1B, we could probably juggle him around to find enough time for Duran to play. The question is do we want to? It looks like trading for a LH'd hitting 1Bman might happen. (Carlos Santana?)

 

[oldtimer]

I agree, too, and I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think that is what he meant.

 

I think his position is...

 

Improving the bench and lessening a GMs options are more important than keeping a prospect playing and growing in AAA.

 

I've been a Sox fan since the late 1940's and have watched players, managers and front offices come and go. There haven't been many times where the team had a legitimate chance to win the pennant and make some noise going forward. That the current team is in a good position at the AS break is a blessing that to me is worth trying to extend for the entire season. Perhaps there are two schools of thought and nuances off of those. The first being that management got us here by staying primarily with the people who were available from Spring training, so lets continue with those players and lets see what happens. The second approach is to realize that other contending team are making and will continue to make moves to improve, so standing pat is not an option if we are to stay competitive. I for one believe that Bloom is correct in following a plan which improves our minor league prospect list while not exceeding the CBT when the chances of winning it all are small. If that is the belief then we can try to trade for help and/or bring up prospects who may be better that some of our weakest players.

 

The players that haven't produced are evident and much talk has been made about the need to either DFA them or trade them. Andriese, Workman, Santana, Chavis, possibly Gonzalez although he provides some defensive flexibility, have been identified. Some have advocated giving these weaker players more time but how much? Until we drop out of contention? We will soon see as we approach the trade deadline. I thin management made a statement about Duran when they held him out of the Olympics which will conclude on August 7th. Why deprive the young man of that opportunity unless the front office plan was to bring him up after the AS break. As far as keeping a player growing in AAA ball, when they get into the mid 20's it is time to fish or cut bait.

 

I am optimistic that Bloom and Cora will do all they are allowed to do to improve the team. I look forward to their moves.

[moonslav59]

Well said, oldtimer. Well said.

 

I do think we act to improve our weakest areas. Some look like they might be handled from within the system, assuming no other major players gets injured.

 

Sale

Houck

Brasier/Bazardo/Valdez/Ort

Duran

Wilson/Cordero

Wong

 

Trades may help us add at

RP

SP (move someone to the pen)

1B

 

Players who may be replaced:

 

Santana/Chavis

Andriese/Brice

Rios

Workman

(Marwin is very doubtful)

[Swiharts Ghost]

Bobby And the rest of these humps on this list suck

[notin]

I agree, too, and I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think that is what he meant.

 

I think his position is...

 

Improving the bench and lessening a GMs options are more important than keeping a prospect playing and growing in AAA.

 

If that’s his opinion, I do disagree. But I acknowledge he’s not alone with that philosophy…

[Swiharts Ghost]

Bobby Dau suck

[notin]

I've been a Sox fan since the late 1940's and have watched players, managers and front offices come and go. There haven't been many times where the team had a legitimate chance to win the pennant and make some noise going forward. That the current team is in a good position at the AS break is a blessing that to me is worth trying to extend for the entire season. Perhaps there are two schools of thought and nuances off of those. The first being that management got us here by staying primarily with the people who were available from Spring training, so lets continue with those players and lets see what happens. The second approach is to realize that other contending team are making and will continue to make moves to improve, so standing pat is not an option if we are to stay competitive. I for one believe that Bloom is correct in following a plan which improves our minor league prospect list while not exceeding the CBT when the chances of winning it all are small. If that is the belief then we can try to trade for help and/or bring up prospects who may be better that some of our weakest players.

 

The players that haven't produced are evident and much talk has been made about the need to either DFA them or trade them. Andriese, Workman, Santana, Chavis, possibly Gonzalez although he provides some defensive flexibility, have been identified. Some have advocated giving these weaker players more time but how much? Until we drop out of contention? We will soon see as we approach the trade deadline. I thin management made a statement about Duran when they held him out of the Olympics which will conclude on August 7th. Why deprive the young man of that opportunity unless the front office plan was to bring him up after the AS break. As far as keeping a player growing in AAA ball, when they get into the mid 20's it is time to fish or cut bait.

 

I am optimistic that Bloom and Cora will do all they are allowed to do to improve the team. I look forward to their moves.

 

 

I refuse to speculate of when Duran comes up, I just strongly believe that when he does, it’s to start.

 

Now can the Sox re-arrange the field to demote Dalbec and promote Duran? Hernandez at 1b, Arroyo at 2b, Verdugo in CF, Duran in LF? Does he platoon with Renfroe? (Not likely IMO) Or do they wait for an injury?