Since they lost last night, I need to tell you what I REALLY feel about the 2021 Sox!

[moonslav59]

It's hard to say his career norm should be what we saw in 2020. It's probably some amalgamation of what he's shown this year.

 

It's hard to know anyone's norm after just 350 PAs, plus it's scattered over 2 seasons.

 

Using minor league numbers is not wise.

 

His career OPS is.745, but my guess is most players who stick around long enough to reach large sample sizes, improve on their first numbers out of the gait.

 

I'm thinking Dalbec might settle around .760 to .820.

[Bellhorn04]

One last thing about Big Papi in the postseason.

 

His most memorable clutch moments came in LDS and LCS games.

 

But by far his sickest numbers were in the WS. In 14 games he put up a line of 455/576/795 for an OPS of 1.372.

[mvp 78]

It's hard to know anyone's norm after just 350 PAs, plus it's scattered over 2 seasons.

 

Using minor league numbers is not wise.

 

His career OPS is.745, but my guess is most players who stick around long enough to reach large sample sizes, improve on their first numbers out of the gait.

 

I'm thinking Dalbec might settle around .760 to .820.

 

820 sounds high to me. I'd say he's probably 750 - 790.

[Bellhorn04]

It's hard to know anyone's norm after just 350 PAs, plus it's scattered over 2 seasons.

 

Using minor league numbers is not wise.

 

His career OPS is.745, but my guess is most players who stick around long enough to reach large sample sizes, improve on their first numbers out of the gait.

 

I'm thinking Dalbec might settle around .760 to .820.

 

He has to do something about his K/BB ratio. That is frighteningly bad this year. It makes Middlebrooks's ratio look good.

[mvp 78]

Red Sox only managed 3 hits last night and scored 0 runs. WTF?

[jad]

Red Sox only managed 3 hits last night and scored 0 runs. WTF?

 

They suck. I expect them to do even worse tonight.

[Bellhorn04]

They suck. I expect them to do even worse tonight.

 

They will not lose tonight, book it. (How many more simple-minded jokes can be wrung out of this?)

[moonslav59]

They will not lose tonight, book it. (How many more simple-minded jokes can be wrung out of this?)

 

They will be no hit.

[notin]

They will be no hit.

 

 

But I think their pitching will equal that…

[moonslav59]

But I think their pitching will equal that…

 

Depends who is not pitching.

 

LOL.

[mvp 78]

They will not lose tonight, book it. (How many more simple-minded jokes can be wrung out of this?)

 

Remy will be speechless over how they are playing.

[mvp 78]

f*** it. This team is so bad that I'm not even going to watch tonight.

[notin]

Depends who is not pitching.

 

LOL.

 

Everyone is not pitching. It’s a combined non-effort!!

 

 

 

 

 

(Enough yet, Bellhorn?)

[iortiz]

Being a good hitter is a skill.

 

Being a clutch hitter is not.

 

It is a mental skill. Some can handle the pressure and some just can’t.

 

Kershaw is a great pitcher but when it comes to key moments like POs, he just can’t pitch well. Tons of examples are out there.

 

It doesn’t apply just in baseball but in all sports.

 

It is a skill.

[mvp 78]

It is a mental skill. Some can handle the pressure and some just can’t.

 

Kershaw is a great pitcher but when it comes to key moments like POs, he just can’t pitch well. Tons of examples are out there.

 

It doesn’t apply just in baseball but in all sports.

 

It is a skill.

 

WHIP regular season: 1.00, xFIP 2.98

WHIP postseason: 1.07, xFIP 3.39

 

SSS or maybe the players behind him aren't helping out or MAYBE he is facing guys on the opposing team who are clutch.

[moonslav59]

It is a mental skill. Some can handle the pressure and some just can’t.

 

Kershaw is a great pitcher but when it comes to key moments like POs, he just can’t pitch well. Tons of examples are out there.

 

It doesn’t apply just in baseball but in all sports.

 

It is a skill.

 

If it was totally random, you’d see samples like Kershaw’s, so how does him doing poorly prove it’s a skill?

[iortiz]

If it was totally random, you’d see samples like Kershaw’s, so how does him doing poorly prove it’s a skill?

 

It is not random. He simply can't handle the pressure in those instances.

 

He is not the same Kershaw in POs. I do not even need to look at the stats to know that and if I do, he is a 2.4 ERA career pitcher while in POs he is a 4.2 ERA one and several times he has been destroyed —like in 2018.

[moonslav59]

It is not random. He simply can't handle the pressure in those instances.

 

He is not the same Kershaw in POs. I do not even need to look at the stats to know that and if I do, he is a 2.4 ERA career pitcher while in POs he is a 4.2 ERA one and several times he has been destroyed —like in 2018.

 

No proof it's not just random.

 

If he were to suddenly start doing well in the PO's, you'd then say he was clutch.

[iortiz]

No proof it's not just random.

 

If he were to suddenly start doing well in the PO's, you'd then say he was clutch.

 

for that game, he could be, but all-in-all he is not a clutch pitcher in my book.

[moonslav59]

for that game, he could be, but all-in-all he is not a clutch pitcher in my book.

 

If he had 10 straight great PO games going forward, you'd then call him clutch.

 

Look, every player has bed stretches. It may be related to luck, injury, strength of opponent or any combination of factors. If some plyer almost always did poorly every Wednesday, you wouldn't call him a Wednesday choke. My point is, how can you tell if the playoff sample sizes aren't just like the Wednesday example or some sign of lacking intestinal fortitude in big games?

 

You can't.

 

I can't prove it isn't either.

[iortiz]

If he had 10 straight great PO games going forward, you'd then call him clutch.

 

Look, every player has bed stretches. It may be related to luck, injury, strength of opponent or any combination of factors. If some plyer almost always did poorly every Wednesday, you wouldn't call him a Wednesday choke. My point is, how can you tell if the playoff sample sizes aren't just like the Wednesday example or some sign of lacking intestinal fortitude in big games?

 

You can't.

 

I can't prove it isn't either.

 

You are pointing out IFs. I'm pointing out facts.

 

He is not very good in POs. He simply isn't, and at his age, he will likely not going to change that fact.

[iortiz]

Price is another example. He was a terrific pitcher in regular season but he couldn't handle POs (aside 2018). It happens, and not only in baseball.

[iortiz]

Price has pitched 23 games in POs and only 99 IP, why? because the hook most of the times was there. He should have pitched 140 IP at very least but he didn't because he was not very good in that instance.

 

That is not a small sample by any means.

[notin]

Price is another example. He was a terrific pitcher in regular season but he couldn't handle POs (aside 2018). It happens, and not only in baseball.

 

With the exception of 2018 (and his injured 2017), Price also pitched 220 innings every year before the playoffs. You don’t think that was a factor?

[mvp 78]

Price has pitched 23 games in POs and only 99 IP, why? because the hook most of the times was there. He should have pitched 140 IP at very least but he didn't because he was not very good in that instance.

 

That is not a small sample by any means.

 

9 of those games were in relief.

[moonslav59]

You are pointing out IFs. I'm pointing out facts.

 

He is not very good in POs. He simply isn't, and at his age, he will likely not going to change that fact.

 

It's not a fact some players have good or bad stats in small samples sizes due to some ghost clutch skill.

 

Randomness would FACTUALLY produce sample sizes like Price & Kershaw and Papi and Reggie.

 

You can't prove the cause anymore than I can.

 

How do you explain Papi's .243 BA in the POs after 2007? Did he lose his skill? Did he suddenly become a choke just because the numbers are "facts?"

[notin]

Price has pitched 23 games in POs and only 99 IP, why? because the hook most of the times was there. He should have pitched 140 IP at very least but he didn't because he was not very good in that instance.

 

That is not a small sample by any means.

 

This is what happens when people just read stats without even looking at them.

 

Rookie David Price wasn’t even a starter for the 2008 Rays during their postseason run. He also relieved for the Sox in his injury-plagued 2017 postseason and pitched 0.2 in mining’s in relief in an 18 inning game in the 2018 World Series. And once in Toronto in 2015.

 

As a starter, he started 14 games and logged nearly 84 IP. That’s nearly 6 innings per start on average. In today’s bullpen-happy game, that’s hardly an issue…

Edited July 14, 2021 by notin

[moonslav59]

9 of those games were in relief.

 

He's made up his mind.

 

There is no luck involved. It's all skill.

 

All season long, players have ups and downs, but when it happens in the playoffs, it is a fact these guys are clutch if they are on an upswing and chokes if on a downswing.

 

It's facts.

[S5Dewey]

Haha. I've been away from this site for over a year and posters are still arguing about "clutch". Some things never change!

 

 

IMO "clutch" isn't a 'he is or he isn't' situation. Some people are more clutch than others and professional athletes are all near the top of this 'clutch' spectrum or else they wouldn't be where they are. However, there IS a spectrum even in the major leagues as well as in amateur leagues - or any sport. In fact, it's entirely possible that many talented baseball players aren't in the ML's simply because they choked during tryouts.

[mvp 78]

This is what happens when people just read stats without even looking at them.

 

Rookie David Price wasn’t even a starter for the 2008 Rays during their postseason run. He also relieved for the Sox in his injury-plagued 2017 postseason and pitched 0.2 in mining’s in relief in an 18 inning game in the 2018 World Series. And once in Toronto in 2015.

 

As a starter, he started 14 games and logged nearly 84 IP. That’s nearly 6 innings per start on average. In today’s bullpen-happy game, that’s hardly an issue…

 

Please Hammer, don't hurt 'em.